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Edward Elric And The Mary Sue Problem, Edward Elric = Mary Sue???
Dark Alchemist S...
post Apr 28 2006, 06:59 PM
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<Moving this from FMA Anime forum to FMA Character Discussion forum. 02/19/07 ~Tombow>

I suppose many characters before have been accused by being a Mary Sue. But seeing as we got a fanfiction area that basically discourages writers to put Mary Sue in, I can see where some people are like, "Well, Ed is contradicting that...."

If you go to this wonderful Wikipedia article (yeah I do wiki all the time) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue_(popular_culture)

You see in the list of Male Mary Sues that Edward is one of them. This poses an interesting and actually pretty controversial question? Is Edward a mary sue/harry stu/airy oo???

I am not saying, by the way, that Edward is necessarily a Mary Sue. Although he has many of the traits as one, he does one thing that no Mary Sue ever does: he GROWS. While most Mary Sues stay in their state, because obviously they can't grow spiritually because they are oh so perfect and experienced, Edward starts out as a naiive kid, and grows into a mature young adult. He is a sheltered kid in a small town who does not know the evils of the world, and has a quite rosy view of it until he joins the military. Although he takes a long time to adapt to this new view, in the end, he does it. And that is only one aspect of his personality.

So, what are your views on Edward as a Mary Sue?

EDIT: I don't know whether this should be in the fanfic section or in the anime section. If you want me to put it in the fanfic section, I'll more than gladly do it. Just tell me ^^
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Automne
post Apr 28 2006, 07:54 PM
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Ed as a Gary-Stue? Now, that's a new.

I'll say not, even if he indeed has got some characteristics like the angsty background, good looks, etc, which is very common, normally for almost all the main anime characters, so the author of this article has forgotten quite a lot.

First, it looks like Mary-Sues/Gary-Stues are good at everything, while we only know Ed is good at alchemy, not everything. And we all know Ed is not so mature, hell, he sometimes acts like the most immature kid I've ever seen, while Mary-sues/Gary-Stues always seem to know everything and always take the good decisions.

Normally, Mary-Sues/Gary-Stues are always sweet, friendly, forgivable, etc, while Ed is definitly...not always like that. And Ed does not seem so interested in love to begin with, while Mary-Sues/Gary-Stues are most of the time always in love.

So I'll say Ed acts most of the time like a boy his age (and what you said is true, he grows as well)? and concerning his incredible knowledge of alchemy, well, everyone has got their strong points and their weak ones. And I'm sure Ed certainly has got some also.

Well, it's not so good but I'm tired, and I'm sure someone else can defend him better than me. And, yes, I do think it should be in the fanfic section. smile.gif


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Toby-Chan
post Apr 30 2006, 10:46 AM
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Ed is far too flawed.

I've seen that article before. Since it's Wikipedia, and anyone who wants to edit it can, they can add whoever they please to that list. Really, every character could be called a Sue/stu, but that turns into a weak argument after a while when you dole out the label like free stickers.

I'd say the stu quality probably comes in with the fact that he was a prodigy and did some amazing things at his young age like enter the military.

However he has far too many flaws and mistakes he's made to be called a stu.

(Side Note- InuYasha as a Gary Stu? HA! That's a new one! *sporfle* I think people are becoming way too confused with this definition. Inuyasha is a blatant idiot for one thing...)

I wonder why Kenshin isn't there... (Loves Kenshin, but realizes he fits the profile more)


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post Apr 30 2006, 11:19 AM
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A Mary-Sue type character? Yes, that short, fowl tempered, doesn't care about much but alchemy boy is most certainly is.

Did a fan-girl suggest they add Ed to the list? Only they wouldn't see he is flawed. Then again you could question quite a few on that list, Mary-Sue is usually a creation of a fiction writer.


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Katana Alchemist
post May 20 2006, 06:48 PM
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I always thought a Mary Sue was a character with such powerful abilities that all others pale in comparison. Perhaps this person did as well. It's true that Ed is the most powerful alchemist is the series but he's far from unchallenged. I would prefer if he had more balanced fights throughout the show but he had plenty of good ones anyway.

Besides, a Mary-Sue is not always a bad thing. I can think of a certain lanky cowboy with puffy hair and a blue leisure suit that knows jeet kun do that is undoubtedly my favorite anime character of all time...
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Toby-Chan
post May 20 2006, 08:34 PM
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Most powerful alchemist in the series?

I'd say Hohenheim and Dante easily beat him.


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FullmetalRaptor
post May 21 2006, 01:58 AM
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Oh, for the love of..! Ed, a sue? Don't make me laugh! How could anyone accuse Edward Elric of being a sue? He actually makes mistakes, he loses his temper over the dumbest things, he has to learn and grow, and I've never seen any character that can actually qualify as a sue that has even 1/100th the depth of character that he has. Obviously, someone just looked at the fact that he's a child prodigy and accused him of being a sue just to get tempers raised (completely despite the fact that child prodigy's do actually exist). Honestly, can't a protagonist be highly skilled without being accused of being a sue anymore? There are a real life people who would be referred as "Mary Sues" or "Larry Stus", if they appeared in a story.
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Melxitm
post Jun 13 2006, 06:46 PM
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Ok, i feel stupid for asking this, but what exactly is Mary Sue? Is it like... someone whom is flawless in almost all they do? Cause thats what Im getting right now. huh.gif


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ed's numbuh ...
post Jun 13 2006, 08:32 PM
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just click on the Wikipedia link on the first post



Edward a mary sue huh.gif naaaah , it never accured to me that people thought he was ^^;
though i definatly don't think he is, he may be talented and such but a Mary Sue/Stu is'nt like Edward at all


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post Jun 15 2006, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 20 2006, 10:34 PM) [snapback]398580[/snapback]

Most powerful alchemist in the series?

I'd say Hohenheim and Dante easily beat him.


[spoiler] Well, he survived both the series AND the movie. I guess he wins by default... [/spoiler]


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Toby-Chan
post Jun 16 2006, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE(darker_element @ Jun 15 2006, 02:29 PM) [snapback]412314[/snapback]

QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ May 20 2006, 10:34 PM) [snapback]398580[/snapback]

Most powerful alchemist in the series?

I'd say Hohenheim and Dante easily beat him.


[spoiler] Well, he survived both the series AND the movie. I guess he wins by default... [/spoiler]


Surviving doesn't determine alchemic skill.

[spoiler] Besides, Hohenheim's death was voluntary. [/spoiler]


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post Jun 17 2006, 10:00 AM
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Someone must have edited that list because Ed is no longer on there.

I still disagree with parts of the article. I thought the concept of Mary Sue/Gary Stu only existed in fan fiction where the author inserts an idealized version of him or herself into the story to be close to the main characters of thier favorite show.

This article accuses well know Tv shows of making Mary Sues but I don't think it's the same thing. It's common for authors to put a bit of themselves into their characters but I don't believe it automatically makes the character a Mary Sue.
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Automne
post Jun 17 2006, 11:57 AM
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Still, some characters from fandoms are truly Mary-sue/Gary-stue-ish and deserve to be up there. Riza Hawkeye from the manga for example (or maybe she already is?), even though some of her aspects are a bit shadowy, has got a a good deal of similarities, IMO.


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FullmetalRaptor
post Jun 17 2006, 05:53 PM
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Hawkeye is a professional trained soldier who takes her job seriously, there are people out there in real life in the military who are like Riza, so she can't be a Sue either.

By that logic, Super-Man is a Mary Sue, as is Aragorn from the LotR books. Come on! Lighten up! Mary Sue should be fanfiction exclusive only. Don't bring canon characters into it.
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Automne
post Jun 17 2006, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE(FullmetalRaptor Posted Today @ 05:53 PM)
Hawkeye is a professional trained soldier who takes her job seriously, there are people out there in real life in the military who are like Riza

Duh! No kidding!

Anyway, I don't think it should be fanfictions only, because these characters are themselves original and coming from someone's mind already if you think about it. I know many authors, wether it be novel authors or manga authors, often want one or many of their characters to be near perfect; this is in no way something rare. I don't know if Arakawa showed us in depths the personality of Hawkeye, not that I mind or care, but she does present Sue points.

I'll maybe edit this post later and will add a link mostly relating to this.


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mspaint_lolz on livejournal


'Buffy and Angel had gone out before and Buffy wasn't really comfortable talking to Spike and Angel at the same time, because now Spike and Buffy had been going out for 6 months and Buffy was afraid that Angel might tell Spike that him and Buffy went out, but it turns out that Angel had told Spike that they went out, Spike was heartbroken that Buffy never told him that they went out, so Spike broke up with Buffy to get back at her for not telling him that Angel and Buffy went out.'

-NOT MINE

TEH BESTEST (AND MOST FRENCH) ROMANCE EVAR
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