HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
full metal alchemist
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Marta/martel Theory, Or why the name is different in the dub
TheFlameAlchemis...
post Dec 23 2005, 10:29 PM
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I do belive it is spelled Rizzenbol, In the manga I read it was called summthing completely different


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Tombow
post Dec 23 2005, 10:57 PM
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QUOTE(DZBrick6 @ Dec 23 2005, 10:05 PM) [snapback]333140[/snapback]

So, how does one go about explaining total changes in episode titles then? I can understand language customs governing name/gender, but I find it tough to believe that 'simple translation errors' could change an episode's title...I refer to #23, 'Fullmetal Heart' becoming 'Heart of Steel'...which is it or is this like that old White Zombie EP that ended up printing wrong and they didn't have the cash to fix it? I know, I'm REALLY reaching, but sometimes curiosity knows no bounds. I await any intelligent theories on this one...

I'm guessing the similar way the series title, "Hagane No Renkinjutsushi (Steel Alchemist)"ended up as Fullmetal Alchemist... Taking artistic liverty??
(BTW, I watch Ghost in the Shell, and their English episode titles are utterly completely different from Japanese episode titles, and the similar thing happening with Samurai Champloo. blink.gif )


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anonymouse
post Dec 23 2005, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE(Tombow @ Dec 23 2005, 11:42 PM) [snapback]333178[/snapback]
(BTW, I watch Ghost in the Shell, and their English episode titles are utterly completely different from Japanese episode titles, and the similar thing happening with Samurai Champloo. blink.gif )


From what I understood about Ghost in the Shell, each episode has always had two titles, one written in Japanese and the other written in English. So even during the original run in Japan, they saw both titles after the opening theme. In that case, it wouldn't really be a translation issue, just the creators' special way of titling the episodes. Is that incorrect?
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Tombow
post Dec 23 2005, 11:54 PM
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^^ Yeah, they always have both English and Japanese episode titles side by side at the begining of the episode, and the two are completely irrevelant of each other!! rolleyes.gif


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anonymouse
post Dec 24 2005, 12:08 AM
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Is it the same deal with Champloo? Every episode has always had a dual title?

If so, it's especially clever in that case, because they can make episode names alliterative in both languages. (At least, I'm guessing that the Japanese titles are also alliterative. I might be wrong on that.)
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post Dec 24 2005, 01:49 PM
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QUOTE(DZBrick6 @ Dec 23 2005, 10:05 PM) [snapback]333140[/snapback]

So, how does one go about explaining total changes in episode titles then? I can understand language customs governing name/gender, but I find it tough to believe that 'simple translation errors' could change an episode's title...I refer to #23, 'Fullmetal Heart' becoming 'Heart of Steel'...which is it or is this like that old White Zombie EP that ended up printing wrong and they didn't have the cash to fix it? I know, I'm REALLY reaching, but sometimes curiosity knows no bounds. I await any intelligent theories on this one...



Actually, Heart of Steel is the more accurate translation, but Fullmetal Heart was probably considered because of the parallel between the series title and the episode title. 'Hagane no renkinjutsushi' means 'Alchemist of Steel', but from the beginning, Arakawa published her manga with both that title, and the Engrish Fullmetal title. Hagane No Kokoro really means "Heart/Soul of steel".

They change a lot of episode titles. Episode four "Love's Transmutation"--> "A forger's love". Episodes 11/12 "Gravel Earth part 1/2"--> "The other brothers Elric part 1/2". Artistic liscence with translation.

I know what is being said about how the intended implied "r/l" sounds might be mistranslated by their use of simply katakana-ing it as "a", but that wasn't the case with Martel. It would have made sense if her name in Katakana had been "Maataa", but it was "Maateru." I don't see the point in ignoring a full syllable.


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Edward'sGirl
post Dec 26 2005, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE(anonymouse @ Dec 24 2005, 12:53 AM) [snapback]333220[/snapback]

Is it the same deal with Champloo? Every episode has always had a dual title?

If so, it's especially clever in that case, because they can make episode names alliterative in both languages. (At least, I'm guessing that the Japanese titles are also alliterative. I might be wrong on that.)


If you're wondering if 'champloo' is a typo or a screw up, it isn't. It's an Okinawan word meaning 'mixed up' or strirred 'together'.
It is also spelled Champuru, but both spellings are correct.
In, fact this site here has info on it.
Samurai Champloo FAQ



and from what I've heard, Hagane does (or can) mean Fullmetal because the Japanese word for steel is 'tekko' (or suchiru in katakana)
so I'd like to believe that Hagane No Renkinjutsushi means Fullmetal Alchemist and that Hagane No Kokoro means Fullmetal Spirit (seeing that Kokoro has different meanings concerning the heart, mind etc.)


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Tombow
post Dec 27 2005, 01:57 AM
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Hehe, Edward'sGirl, I like Champru (the Okinawan dish of the namesake,) and rice!! biggrin.gif

(Tho, I think anonymouse was asking if each episode of Samurai Champloo series has dual English and Japanese titles, and not about the word "Champloo" itself. But, your post reminded me of the dish!! Thanks!!) happy.gif

OT: By the way, as an additional info, if I'm correct, the Okinawan word "champru" is usually not in Japanese usage, but the word "champon/chanpon," (besides the name of a dish from Nagasaki, the Southern Japanese town the Champloo trio is heading in the anime series,) tho not in frequent usage, (nor a "proper" Japanse word,) it means "mixed" as in champru, and I think once in a while find someone using it in Japanese. smile.gif

And, to answer anonymouse's dual episode title question, yes, just like Ghost in the Shell, at the begining of each episode of Samurai Champloo they show both English and Japanese titlles (well, in the U.S., anyway) and like Ghost in the Shell, these two titles are not related.

Ok, sort of.
For Samurai Champloo, (and, I think, to a degree for Ghost in the Shell also) often Japanese title seems to be more of an "abstract" expression of the episode, and the English title is slightly more descriptive of the episode, tho often still rather vegue, IMO.

And, on another side note, if I'm correct, I think word "Fullmetal" is more of a recently popularized American expression, and I might be wrong but usually the Japanese word "hagane" is translated as steal, as posted, but not translated as "fullmetal," at least in most of Japanse usage, other than anime and other art fields, as far as I know ...unless, the translater happen to be a FMA fan!! laugh.gif


Ok, sorry for all the OTs... Please resume the main discussion.. happy.gif


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blackrider76
post Dec 27 2005, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE(DZBrick6 @ Dec 23 2005, 10:05 PM) [snapback]333140[/snapback]

So, how does one go about explaining total changes in episode titles then? I can understand language customs governing name/gender, but I find it tough to believe that 'simple translation errors' could change an episode's title...I refer to #23, 'Fullmetal Heart' becoming 'Heart of Steel'...which is it or is this like that old White Zombie EP that ended up printing wrong and they didn't have the cash to fix it? I know, I'm REALLY reaching, but sometimes curiosity knows no bounds. I await any intelligent theories on this one...

"Hagane" in japanese means: steel
the title was supposed to be Steel Alchemist, but it sounded pretty bland, so they probabl made it Full Metal Alchemist.
thus making the episode, heart of steel, instead of full metal heart


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Japert
post Dec 28 2005, 01:35 PM
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I see full metal alchemist by animax and the translate for spanish is Marta.


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easilydetachable...
post Jan 19 2006, 10:24 PM
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I'm guessing the similar way the series title, "Hagane No Renkinjutsushi (Steel Alchemist)"ended up as Fullmetal Alchemist... Taking artistic liverty??

As a response to this, hagane, does mean steel, but the creators did a couple things, first they took hagaren, which means stubborn (there is a double barb when roy tells ed that his name is ironic), and kinda made it into full metal, which is why the show is often reffered to by that name. The messed around until they got hagane no renkinjitsushi.

About the Martyl thing, I belive that you guys are way to smart about it. Even for the sub they had many different subbers, and martyl's name changed from Martyl, to Mertyl to Martel, to Marta. I think the dubbers just took whatever one they liked best, which happened to be marta. Rizenbool is too messed up to talk about.

The thing that bugs me about the dub is that they changed Al's opening speach from:

"People cannot gain anything without sacrificing something. You must present something of equal value in order to gain something. That is the principal of equivilant trade in alchemy. We believed that was the truth of the world when we were young."

to

" Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of equivalent exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one and only truth."


Which one do you guys like better?
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Wyrd_Raven
post Jan 19 2006, 11:22 PM
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the translation of what Al says is basic semantics. they both MEAN the same thing but the second flows better to me somehow.


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