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Suicide, What are your thoughts?
Guest_Tuckersux_*
post Dec 30 2006, 06:54 PM
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..... My thoughts are just.... The world is a hard place. No offence but, it very selfish to kill yourself. That's like handing the terribale(sp?) life you had down to the ones closest to you.. But I write songs about it all the time.... oh well, I like emo stuff.
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cmChimera
post Jan 20 2007, 10:55 AM
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First off, stop it with these one sentence bullshit. You are not going to win a debate with one short sentance answers. The only thing your telling us is your inaptitude to carry on a basic debate/conservation. For Christ sake learn how to fucking explain yourself. Provide us with an intelligent post, and when someone does not agree with what you say. Retort with and intelligent post. And when you agree with some on respond with a intelligent post. See the key word? Intelligence: displaying or characterized by quickness of understanding, sound thought, or good judgment. You are lacking this key quality.
I'm not going to type more than I have to. There haven't many times in this debate where more than one sentence was required. For example, I could have just said "I'm not going to type more than I have to, and so far I haven't had to." But since you're so "intelligent" as you put it, I'll give your unnecessary statement a longer response. First off, did you just grab my responses and copy and paste them? Because if you had been reading anything that had been going on, you'd see that one sentence responses aren't just coming from me, and that most of the ones in your quote box are questions.....I'm the one ASKING for explanation. Secondly, I'm not trying to win this debate. The inevitable outcome of this all is that the topic will die. I stated my opinion and now I'm defending my opinion and since my opinion differs from yours, questioning yours. And lastly, I don't need tips on how to debate nor do I want them. I don't care for your respect, and therefore I don't really care if you like how I debate. I don't care if I'm pissing you off or if my opinion offends you. It's my opinion. If you don't like it, don't read. Think about that the next time you decide to come with a worthless block of words like the one I just responded to. Oh and please don't bother responding to this part of my post, It's highly off topic, so I'd rather not.
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Then what the hell do you consider a mental illness? Or more importantly why don't you consider depression a mental illness? You need to explain your bullshit because its getting too thick to wade through now.
I don't consider depression a mental illness because it seems self-inflicted. I think the re are very few TRUE mental illnesses. I've already seen where a mental illness will be created on the spot SPECIFICALLY to describe one person. I find this entire idea to be preposterous. If a person is truly mentally ill and does not know what they are doing, then I can't really judge their actions can I? However, if the person has the mental capacity to realize what they are doing, then I have no respect for them.
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Yes, every one has the right to have there own opinion here. But your abusing your right to have an opinion. In here opinions are based on formal expressions of a professional judgment. And I ask you kindly if you cannot accomplish this simple task. Please leave this topic.
"Serious suicide is for quitters and cowards.
'Attempted' suicide is for attention-starved brats.

That's all i have to say on this issue."

That's a quote from void from the second page of the topic. Simple, to the point, and very similar to my opinion. Yet he didn't receive half the shit I got for my opinion. Grow up.
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And to answer you. Yes I understand what hypocrite means, and I see no fault in what he has done. In fact if you must know he has done more that you. And your more at fault with this than most.
I'm not even going to attempt to debate the idiotic idea that his post that added absolutely nothing debate was ok, but a similar post from me is grounds for a rant....You just need to shut up. You have two choices, actually debate my arguments or sit back and watch, because I'm not going to bother making another post defending my actions.
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I doesn't make it cowardly either.
I never said me shooting you in the face is cowardly. The point is,it's a choice, but a bad one. Just like suicide. Since phoenix dying assumes that you are an idiot and can't understand the things I'm saying, I'll ask you. Do you understand what I'm saying here?
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And suicide by cop meets that criteria which you say is suicide. So you have clearly admitted you were wrong.
(I'm not trying to milk this but just make it nice and clear.)
No. By my logic, a man jumping off a cliff is self-inflicted death. By your logic, the ground killed him. Suicide by cop is self inflicted. The cops did not suicide the person because that's impossible. They also did not murder the person. He jumped off a cliff, and the cops were nothing but the ending point of the fall.
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The difference being: You are denying people respect for no good reason while I am giving respect to everyone. People have an unwritten right to be respected, they don't have a right to impose their moral beliefs on people (ad yes, I'm aware that can been seen as what we're doing right now.)
I'm not telling anyone not to kill themselves, I'm simply stating that I think it's cowardly and that I have no respect for anyone that commits suicide. I'm not imposing my beliefs on anyone, and I DO have the right to my beliefs do I not? I don't have any obligation to respect in what in my opinion is a coward. So instead of imposing your moral beliefs on me, move on.
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A cold isn't fatal, nor does it cause great suffering, liver failure is and does
I realize a cold isn't fatal. But the point was to expose the flaw of your statement. You said that if a treatment wasn't providing enough relief that it wasn't doing it's job. The amount of relief expected from each person is relative, and should be defined by the doctor, not the patient.
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Yes, these people should try treatment first but when it's clear that none of it is having any decent effect then people should be allowed to die without suffering further. if they want to fight on then good for them, but if they want to pass away in relative comfort knowing that nothing can be done then let them.
What if they didn't want treatment at all? And also, if life support is the only thing keeping them alive it's one thing. But if they have like a year to live, then I'm still finding it selfish.[quote]
Homeless people, Orphans, single adult children who's parents have died. There are people who don't have families and millions who don't have jobs.
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Slashrose1010
post Jan 28 2007, 11:17 AM
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Suicide is one of the most selfish things anyone can do... People are always wrong when they say "no one would care if something happened to me". Nothing is more precious than human life and the love it creates.

I don't care if anyone says that it is close minded or idealistic. It is the truth, and you can try to come up with all the exceptions you want, but more often than not, it is selfish, and I wish people would just... stop and take time to think and breathe and talk and realize that life is worth living...


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Astria
post Jan 29 2007, 06:28 PM
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Ah, Slashrose1010, but that is only your point of view. All that is on this thread is only someone's point of view, I'm afraid. Not 'truth', not even close.

I would ask you to put yourself in the mindset of a suicidal person, but that would be impossible. It isn't about what is right or wrong, or even why, on a universal scale you seem to be thinking of, 'life is worth living'. It is about, I believe, a very subjective state of mind. It is not selfishness, because like everything else, what is 'selfish' is relative. And if it's one thing someone who is suicidal cannot understand, it is themselves in relation to others and vice versa: community and the love of others are made obsolete, pointless. There is such thing as the love of a community, the inherent worth of human life. But there is also such thing as free will and the ability to act only for one's self.


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Slashrose1010
post Jan 29 2007, 07:12 PM
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I know, that is the sterile realistic logical point of view. I agree with you, don't get me wrong, but I still believe that it is quite selfish. I know that all the person wants is peace or freedom from paine, but causes that much paine to anyone who loves that person. Of course suicidal people deny the love of others if it exists, even if it is coming from the ones closest to them... I do realize that it is an extreme mental disorder.

I just wish people could just somehow notice that these thoughts are running through people's minds, but it is rare that they do. It just seems like another bad day, but sometimes one too many bad days can tip the scale...


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Astria
post Jan 30 2007, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE(Slashrose1010 @ Jan 30 2007, 02:12 AM) [snapback]498651[/snapback]
I know, that is the sterile realistic logical point of view. I agree with you, don't get me wrong, but I still believe that it is quite selfish. I know that all the person wants is peace or freedom from paine, but causes that much paine to anyone who loves that person. Of course suicidal people deny the love of others if it exists, even if it is coming from the ones closest to them... I do realize that it is an extreme mental disorder.


Is it not similarly selfish for the friends/family members to deign to give their 'love' as a reason for the individual not to take their own life?

QUOTE(Slashrose1010 @ Jan 30 2007, 02:12 AM) [snapback]498651[/snapback]
I just wish people could just somehow notice that these thoughts are running through people's minds, but it is rare that they do. It just seems like another bad day, but sometimes one too many bad days can tip the scale...


Now that, I wholeheartedly agree with.
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Chiyo
post Jan 30 2007, 04:34 PM
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That is exactly the problem...the ones who usually are suicidal don't promote that they want to die and the attention seekers get attention they don't deserve. As you say suicide can hurt a lot of people...thinking what could they have done...but in many cases there is very little they could have done.


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Shinobimelxi
post Jan 30 2007, 05:22 PM
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QUOTE
I think that suicide is one's choice. It's their own life, they can do whatever they want to with it. It's when somebody kills another that bothers me.
Same here. Homicide is cruel. No one should deserve to die in the hands of a cold blooded murderer whose excuse was rediculous. I don't care if Jesus told you it was for the better, don't take ones life just cause you can. I also go with this is criminal executions.

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I just don't like it when people do it for silly reasons like being slightly overweight. I once knew a girl who was suicidal for that reason, she never killed herself, but it's a silly thing to kill yourself over.


This is a stupid reason. Ok, for the obese, listen, you don't have to kill yourself cause your 70+ pounds over weight. You know what you have to do? Diet, and excersise.
Maybe you should put the fry's and hamburger down, head to subway, or home, and find something healthy to eat.
Reduce your calorie count, don't eat fatty stuff, no more fast food restuarants, excersise for an hour, or 30 minutes everyday, and your good.
I don't like when people say, especially women, "I'm so fat, why me? what am i doing to deserve this?"
"Uh, honey, look where you are and what your eating."
And then people always say it's hard to diet, or loose weight.
I've been there. Age 12, 4'10, 138 lbs.
Now by keeping my life healthy, Age 16, 5'1, 109 lbs.
So no excuses.

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I do not like suicide, and I'd rather nobody do it, but it's their life.

Before I go and also admit I don't like suicide I have to confess, I was a self injurer, and had suicidal thoughts, but never did i have the guts to do it.
Not only because i was scared, but also cause i thought of how stupid i would seem, and how sad my dad would become. Sure friends too, but time passes and soon they cope.
Then, i began to think of e good reason to destroy a life that was given so many things when people out in the world live off the clothe on their back and eat the worms or dirt beneath them.

People do lead their own lifes and you could do what you want, live it well, or screw it up.
But you also have to remember before you hang yourself, or bleed yourself to death. You all who are in this forum, typing from a computer, have something.
You have shelter, food, a family, or half, even though they ignore you, their still there. You have friends, even if it's one. You have clothing, even if it's just a few.
Don't waste your life when someone out there crys everynight wishing that they had a life like yours, not caring if it was crap, but that they would atleast have food, shelter, family, and education.

I do agree with how some say its someone to his own life, but then again, i also agree with how selfish it would be to just take it away without thinking.


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travisbmoore
post Feb 12 2007, 09:02 AM
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I thought about it. But something keeps me clinging to this life and to keep living no matter how bad things seem. I wonder why I want to live even though I don't think I fear death.
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ゆきえいり
post Feb 27 2007, 03:36 PM
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I have no clue how to use quote (Some one please explain?).
Chiyo, I'm all for you. That really is how people are. It sickens me. I should know because I've attempted it and failed. But I wasn't emo or anything, I just had a real fucked up year. And I'd liked to say that I'm over it and don't have thoughts about it, but I can't. It's not a decision that comes and goes constantly, it takes time, and balls. it takes balls to do it, but it also takes balls to stop yourself. It annoys me when people feel sorry for themselves and make those embarrassing scratches in their wrists. And then, they show it to the world, and receive attention for their selfishness. If they were seriously depressed or had mental issues, they woudn't show anyone or make a scene.


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Bre-chan
post Feb 27 2007, 05:58 PM
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My opinion, honestly, would be that anyone stupid enough to want to kill themselves needs to take a look at themselves first. I mean, come on. Life is so short, why would you want to shorten it more? And if someone seriously ails, they don't really want to die... they want to be saved.

That's it, really...


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ἀρχή
post Feb 27 2007, 08:23 PM
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I wonder how this logic works:

1. Those who have suicidal thoughts are not thinking rationally
2. Rational arguments to prevent suicide are impossible (per 1)
3. Taking action based on irrational thinking is to be avoided (moral appeal)
4. Those who commit suicide take action based on irrational thoughts, which should be avoided (per 1 & 3)
5. Society should protect people from irrational action (per 3 & expanded moral appeal)
6. Society has an obligation to prevent someone from commiting suicide (per 1,3,5)

As a side note, I do think that rational arguments showing how suicide is "stupid" or "selfish" are not really meaningful. Suicide in itself is an irrational choice and the key assumption for the above notes.


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zombie
post Apr 2 2007, 06:37 AM
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What wrong with this statement people?
QUOTE
If someone jumps into the bullet that someone else shot, then the person who shot the gun took that person's life It's not a hard concept.
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Suicide is willfully ending one's own life for their own purpose.....For example....You get picked on, so you shoot yourself in the face

Yea and going on and killing everyone is so much better. People do that because thats all they can see as a way out. Some people will just go and kill the other person and then take a few more out just for the hell of it.

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QUOTE
Other arguments aside a coward is still a person.

And?
What an argument to help your case. When you say something like that you just sound like an idiot. So give reasons, facts something to back up what you have to say.
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Jesus died for the sake of the human race.
That may be true but what is suicide? Suicide is to take ones life is it not? Jesus did this for a reason. He did it to save us all. as well all know.

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OKay, you're 35, you have a tumour in your brain which is incurable. The doctors can keep you alive but you will be in tremendous pain for the rest of your life and your body will deteriorate untill you are huge burden on everyone.
Show me a way out besides suicide.

The situation is not realistic.

That is the most idiotic statement that I have seen to date. It happens Not a lot you can do about it.
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If this situation really existed this person would either have to remain in the hospital, or would have medication to specifically deal with the pain.
Like Popogeejo said doctors may not be able to help. They even can recommend death.

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Y'all call me insensitive, yet y'all would call a dying family member a burden....Due to the negative connotation that burden has, I find that cold. And am I to assume that other people judge if it is alright for you to kill yourself? By the way y'all are talking about it, it makes it seem lke if the person feels that no one wants them here then they should go ahead and die....
OK well I have a family member who is losing his mind. For me and my mum to look after him would be highly impractical. We are to far out of any town for if something to go wrong we cant help for him in a few min. its more like a few hours. We cant get the fact that he cant remember a thing so telling him to do this and not that (dont play with fire play with that dog.) Can be something of a nightmare. as well as the fact that we need to keep an eye on him all the time. I get off work at 2am so I cant expect him to come to work every night to pick me up with my mum. We would need someone to keep an eye on him while that happens. So for me and my family it would be to much of a burden. So it would in a way be cold as you said but a hell of a lot better for all for him to be in a hospital.

QUOTE
That's a quote from void from the second page of the topic. Simple, to the point, and very similar to my opinion. Yet he didn't receive half the shit I got for my opinion. Grow up.
Thats because we know he has an IQ. From memory he said something like this but in more words "suicide is not suicide when you do it because of medical reasons" He is rite but then again he is wrong because it is still suicide. We also understood where he is coming from. He was logical you have not been as much.
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zombie
post Apr 2 2007, 07:06 AM
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QUOTE
Suicide is one of the most selfish things anyone can do... People are always wrong when they say "no one would care if something happened to me". Nothing is more precious than human life and the love it creates.

Ok Im just going to say that’s true you can t argue with that statement and all that.
People who are thinking about suicide don’t see it as that. They see it as no one can help no one knows that they are alive that type of thing. They see the problem as they fighting the world and that’s it. No help no nothing.
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King of Smash
post Apr 3 2007, 09:42 AM
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One of my friend's attempted at suicide, but couldn't do it. There's always a way out, or help so to speak.


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