HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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End Of The World..., Do you think so?
filimonovna
post Sep 30 2004, 10:07 AM
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QUOTE(Guest @ Sep 29 2004, 07:01 PM)
lol, God is a he? I wonder if he sometimes would fall in love with a human woman and do would like to do the same thing as Zeus  rolleyes.gif


This is somehow insulting...
God have never fallen in love with human woman, beacause he is GOD! He is creator! He is ruler! He doesn't have any feeling to us except for sorrow (if we do something wrong) or joy (if we do something right).


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Cute Alchemist
post Sep 30 2004, 10:09 AM
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what u lot talking about any way? lol


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Guest_Guest_*
post Sep 30 2004, 10:12 AM
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well, I can't insult God, but I can make people feel insulted... but that's not what I want.. what I mean is, who says God is a He? by which rules does he rule? that of christianiy, islam, judaism, buddhism, hinduism, bahaísm, taoism or confucianism?

if he only feels sorrow, then why can't the Almighty create happiness?
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filimonovna
post Sep 30 2004, 10:23 AM
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QUOTE(Guest @ Sep 30 2004, 05:12 PM)
well, I can't insult God, but I can make people feel insulted... but that's not what I want.. what I mean is, who says God is a He? by which rules does he rule? that of christianiy, islam, judaism, buddhism, hinduism, bahaísm, taoism or confucianism?

if he only feels sorrow, then why can't the Almighty create happiness?

1. Orthodox religion (I'm an orthodox) says that God is one in three: God the father, God the son and God the saint spirit. All of them are male, as you can see.
2. God can't create happyness, because we have to do it by ourselves. If he forces us to be happy, then there's no pint in having our own will. If we're doing smth wrong, it's only our own fault. If we didn't notice you've gone a wrong path, it's our fault. We have to walk forward, untill we understand our mistakes and overcome them.


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...if you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of endless run,
Yours is the earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

W. Blake
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Guest_Guest_*
post Sep 30 2004, 10:33 AM
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okay, but I still don't know which religion is the right one, who tells the truth.. please tell me, i want to know!!

I never saw God, so I can't tell which gender he is 0__o oh, I'm so unknowing! cruelness of heavens!!

okay, if we do something that makes us happy (like feasting and drinking a lot, having much sex etc.), would he not be happy for us? or is he the one that has to be saved to be happy? or maybe he'll always have to be sunk in his sorrow (I would pity such a fate for God)

but it's true that we live to learn, overcome and grow.. God installed natural laws so that the world is clear, logical, and we can use thos laws to create our world.. we're the creation of 'God the father', we're the 'Son', and the 'Holy Spirit' is the domain of all knowledge and wisdom, which helps us to grow... and this all applies to a law that we have lately learned: evolution...
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Prinz_Zoisit
post Sep 30 2004, 11:21 AM
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Yes, filmonovna, that's what i forgot to tell(i am sooo stupid >.<)...
not only for orthodox christians... also for protestants, it's said "Our father in heaven, beholied may be your name..."

.....@Guest:
uhm, ...you mentioned Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc.... what is with Satanism, or religions that are soo new(they just were founded one week ago)... how do you want to place them in your "totaly tolerant view", huh?

and you said ,that GOd chose a male-form cause of patriarchism. I don't think that it was soo important for him what ppl on earth think of him...
and even IF so, did the ppl of that time really gave him the attetion he wanted to be given(even in his male-form)? -> NO

QUOTE
God has to be less than he is in order to know his full potential, and so even the worst things are holy (the crusifiction for example! or holocaust) because that defines for us what is more godly (or humanly/naturally), and what is less.. we aren't bad, we are just a lot less than what we can be in full potential..

if you say it that way, all things can be viewed as "evil" or "less evil"...

QUOTE
okay, but I still don't know which religion is the right one, who tells the truth.. please tell me, i want to know!!

I never saw God, so I can't tell which gender he is 0__o oh, I'm so unknowing! cruelness of heavens!!

That's what i want to hear from a person!!!!!....
even if you havn't chosen your right way, it is sooo(very!) right to moan!!!....


The view of a total tolerant view(with all religions included) is unreachable, Guest...
You have to bring the most paradox things(that you can imagine) together... "Evil", as well as "Good", but in most of the religions, "the Good" is predetermined to win!...


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the sky full of stars above me and the moral law inside of me..." (Immanuel Kant)
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Guest_Guest_*
post Sep 30 2004, 11:44 AM
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ow, yeah, I forgot them too!! they all preach something else, so I'm quite confused... please, tell me who tells the truth..

I think it was important which gender the Christ had.. if a female came to preach, people would laugh her out, and if she kept on going, she would die kinda sooner, without having any followers..

okay, so Jesus was luckely enough a man, so he could have some 12 desiples, and other believers beside of that.. no attention? why did jewish priests always follow and attack him, why did even the romans want him to die? he must've been quite popular and threatening if they had to torture and crusify him! he even got so far that a world religion was founded after him!

I'm not trying to say that you can somehow compromise all religions, I'm saying the opposite: they all say different things, so how do you now who tells the truth? how? tell me!

good and evil are labels designed by humans.. we always believe to do the 'right' thing, so yeah, that what's good will always win (wether it is killing or loving the other, being a slave or being a free spirit)... we can conclude that there are no rules to what is wrong or right, and even God can't tell.. it's something subjective....
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Prinz_Zoisit
post Sep 30 2004, 12:45 PM
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what actually truth is, i can't say...
i can actually only tell little pieces of this truth and these pieces are my experience in life, my memories, all my living...
i meant that nobody payed attention to his(Jesu) preaches and nobody wanted to understand him...(but this, Guest, you actually could guess already(what i wanted to say with this...) dry.gif

QUOTE
we can conclude that there are no rules to what is wrong or right, and even God can't tell.. it's something subjective...

Then, the next question would be, if GOd expects from us to know what is true or what isn't...
It's like the sentence "Give me arguments that killing is bad!"... How do you know? We know it because we accept others like ourselves. And you can do this, if you appreciate others.

P.S.:
This question reminds me of my Philosophy lessons(wow! i am talking about school-lessons here^^), where we talked about humans and whether their nature is "to be bad"... Nobody knows... I am often thinking of such situations and i often think what would happen if you would enprison somebody in a prison for the first 20 years of his life and let him free after this time....... dry.gif dry.gif dry.gif But this thinking is too macabre...


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the sky full of stars above me and the moral law inside of me..." (Immanuel Kant)
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Cute Alchemist
post Sep 30 2004, 12:59 PM
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WW3!!!! lol it like a war here *picks up my machine gun* im ready for the fight lol


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Guest_Guest_*
post Sep 30 2004, 01:10 PM
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hmm, yeah, truth comes both from experience as from what you learn rationally from books or discussions, and intuition of course...

Jesus did get attention (like on the mountain-preaches), but it is probably true that people didn't understand him (or simply didn't want to).. that's why his own people sentenced him to crusifiction... but still, information about his life and believes came through to us, so there surely have been people who understood him... (however you can't really say that all christianity (or even much of it) understands and practices His teachings...)

yeah, people can accept, can forgive, and this is really a higher grade of being human.. now, to the topic, God can do the same, accept and forgive, so destruction of the world isn't necessary to bring heaven on earth.. rather than that, I think its something that will flow out of human harts, I believe we will create a time where we really can live in peace and freedom, and not be fighting against our own evolution and instinct of survival.. (until now we are kinda destructive and constructive at the same time.. that makes us walk in circles >.<)

ow, and philosophy is a great and important thing! at least, when you have the right teacher.. thinking is one of the qualities in us that we can develop, but there are also a lot more.. institutions like politics, economics, creative organisations (drama,movie,music etc.), religion etc., they al should help to develop different kinds of positive characteristics the human has.. a bad person is most often one who didn't had a chance to do so, who has fallen into an internal conflict.. someone like that should not be punished, but cured...

ah, and now I'm going to sleep!! good night everyone, wherever you might live tongue.gif
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Prinz_Zoisit
post Sep 30 2004, 01:17 PM
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me, too, G'night!!


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"Two things fulfill my mind with always new and increasing admiration and reverence the more frequently and continuously i think about it busily:
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wolfi1412
post Sep 30 2004, 08:54 PM
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argh.. wrote a whole bunch of stuff.. and it disappeared! I'll reply later.. I'm bookmarking this!


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post Sep 30 2004, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE(wolfi1412 @ Sep 29 2004, 12:22 AM)
QUOTE(Outtawack311 @ Sep 29 2004, 07:00 AM)
Believing that the "second coming" will come when all jews are back in the holy land and the fighting stops is pretty retarded. First of all, the bible is not truth. Its stories written to give people a way to live (watch penn and teller Bullshit, its a show they have an episode explaining everything you would want to know about the bible). If you believe in god and the teaching how can you believe in the bible? It was written 500 years after anything supposedly happened. Then they left books out of the bible(that are still sanctioned by the church). The bible was assembled by a commitee who picked from hundreds of books submitted to them about the myth, they picked certain books by what went together the best and the rest of the books are off somewhere. Then comes another thing, there were thousands of "messiahs" back in that day and they all had pretty big followings too. To believe that the end of the world is predicted in the stories of men (who are fallible, even in the bible) is kinda stupid. What really bugs me are the people who pick and choose what is fact and what is a metaphor for something else.

Also, if the point of life is to worship god to the point where you dont have much free choice and if you screw up a little and die your tortured for eternity....then please, kill me and let me be tortured. I dont want to be with a god that creates people so most can be tortured in a never ending pit of fire.
Religion is a crutch people have used for centuries to show some meaning for life. Thats nice and all for people that need it, but it should be used as a guide to live. Religions teach good values, but when anyone gets caught up in the extremities of religion they turn on their fellow man and that goes against the teachings. Yes, even christians, when you turn the other cheek on people for their beliefs like gays, jews, abortionists, etc it goes against the principles of religion.
Lets see, what else can I rant on. There is no proof that the o-zone is deteriorating and there is no proof global warming exists either. The temperature jump is in direct line with what has happened in the past. There is no deviation from the patterns set. Global warming and the o-zone deterioration are just theories. 

I personally believe in the theory that the universe starts with a chemical reaction, a "big bang" the universe expands then retracts again. Then it repeats. This process would take an unfathomable amount of time.  Humans wont live that long either, we will most likely kill ourselves through some massive war or some scientific screw up and condemn our species. Either that or a meteor will kill us all. I dont think any of this will happen in our life time.

To be caught up in any of this as to allow it to negatively affect your life is stupid. You shouldn't worry about the innevitable, just make the best out of life.
I am jewish in a sense, I respect the religion, but I dont allow it to control me. I take the morals out of it and thats it. The rest of the old testament (or the whole bible for that matter) is all fictional stories to help you get the most out of life.

Rant...done..

first thing to say, please consider about other people's feelings and beliefs, as a Christian myself, I felt a little bit offended by what you said, maybe you should add like "I think.. " instead of jumping and just points out everything...

A thing that surprises me: you're a Jew, so are you going back to Israel? do you believe that God exists? if God doesn't exists, what creates all things in the first place?

And all kinds of stuff you were saying about the old testament, some of them are found the proof... like the ruins of wheels from Egyptian chariots in the Red Sea. or Noah's Ark.. you can see all the proof, even though it's not yet confirmed, but to me, the Bible's pretty accurate.

Believing or committing into a religion can be a good thing too, I'm studying about the Vikings age, and do you know that one of the things that stopped them from become 'barbarians' again is that they commit to Christianity, so don't think it as bad as what I read what you type/wrote.

And I disagree about when you make a little mistake and you go straight to hell, coz actually if you just ask for forgiveness to God with all your heart and with all your soul, all your sins are forgiven, it is written there! Coz, as you should know, that God is a forgiving God, why do you think He sent Jesus? Would you want to die for someone you doesn't know and he/she is a criminal that doesn't even deserve to live and you're 100% innocent??!?! God did everything out of love, and if you're wondering why.. coz God is love..

I think I have nothing else to say.. so .. been away for 1-2 days..

"And all kinds of stuff you were saying about the old testament, some of them are found the proof... like the ruins of wheels from Egyptian chariots in the Red Sea. or Noah's Ark.. you can see all the proof, even though it's not yet confirmed, but to me, the Bible's pretty accurate."


Actually dude, there is no proof for your stories, look it up. Hell, there is no factual proof that there were slaves in egypt at all. The thing about them saying they found the ark, can you please explain how noah got 2 animals from all 10 billion species on that boat? Then distributed them approriately where they are today in the world?
Want an explaination for the ark? well archeologists have proof that there was a really bad flood on the euphrates river one year (6 day long flood) that broke the levys and killed many a people. A semerian king named zieth sudra (sp?) commondered a commercial barge and rode the flood downstream into the persian gulf with alot of his own merchandise and he finally ran aground. Thankful that he landed on ground he made a sacrifice on a hilltop temple. There is geological and archeological proof to support that.

Now, want the real story behind the red sea? Right near it there is something called the reed sea that with a decent wind during low tide the marshy waters appear to part and give a pathway to cross. This one i am not as sure about, but this is what I remember.

Want to form your own opinion, get the facts. Also if you want to hear the truth about the bible and taking it as fact watch penn and teller bullshit s02e06 from suprnova. They do a good job of finding facts.

I am not trying to piss on your religion, its just that your missing the point of the bible if you try to read into it to seriously. Any book that says people should be put to death for working on sundays; One that tells of how its wrong for men to have long hair and tells many other rediculous rules (read it yourself) should not be taken seriously. It should be used for inspiration.
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wolfi1412
post Sep 30 2004, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE(Outtawack311 @ Oct 1 2004, 04:00 AM)
Actually dude, there is no proof for your stories, look it up. Hell, there is no factual proof that there were slaves in egypt at all. The thing about them saying they found the ark, can you please explain how noah got 2 animals from all 10 billion species on that boat? Then distributed them approriately where they are today in the world?
Want an explaination for the ark? well archeologists have proof that there was a really bad flood on the euphrates river one year (6 day long flood) that broke the levys and killed many a people. A semerian king named zieth sudra (sp?) commondered a commercial barge and rode the flood downstream into the persian gulf with alot of his own merchandise and he finally ran aground. Thankful that he landed on ground he made a sacrifice on a hilltop temple. There is geological and archeological proof to support that.

Now, want the real story behind the red sea? Right near it there is something called the reed sea that with a decent wind during low tide the marshy waters appear to part and give a pathway to cross. This one i am not as sure about, but this is what I remember.

Want to form your own opinion, get the facts. Also if you want to hear the truth about the bible and taking it as fact watch penn and teller bullshit s02e06 from suprnova. They do a good job of finding facts.

I am not trying to piss on your religion, its just that your missing the point of the bible if you try to read into it to seriously. Any book that says people should be put to death for working on sundays; One that tells of how its wrong for men to have long hair and tells many other rediculous rules (read it yourself) should not be taken seriously. It should be used for inspiration.

that's one long.. quote..

sorry, but you say that the winds divided the red sea, which is I think is kinda impossible, if the one that divides it is a super strong wind, Moses and the Israelites will be flying around coz of the wind, but instead they're went safely to the other end..how you gonna explain that .. uh. er.. Outtawack311?

this reffers to Noah's ark:
Oh, and do you know that the root of all nation came from only 3 people?? black ppl, white ppl, and chinese ppl.. if there used to be millions of other ppl, why the root is only three?? and about how Noah put all the animals inside, it's called miracle!

reffers to Egyptians have slaves:
if they don't have slaves, how they build the pyramid?


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Gashole
post Sep 30 2004, 09:29 PM
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Dayum, I gotta start reading this thread from the first page. I like arguing about this kind of stuff. I don't take the Bible literally, though, so fundamentalists, I may not be on your side.
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