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End Of The World..., Do you think so?
filimonovna
post Sep 28 2004, 07:15 AM
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Oh, I hardly believe in christian Apocalypse, it's more likely to be a catastrophe of some sort... And it's really unlikely to happen on certain day like 12/22/2012 or 6/6/06


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post Sep 29 2004, 12:00 AM
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Believing that the "second coming" will come when all jews are back in the holy land and the fighting stops is pretty retarded. First of all, the bible is not truth. Its stories written to give people a way to live (watch penn and teller Bullshit, its a show they have an episode explaining everything you would want to know about the bible). If you believe in god and the teaching how can you believe in the bible? It was written 500 years after anything supposedly happened. Then they left books out of the bible(that are still sanctioned by the church). The bible was assembled by a commitee who picked from hundreds of books submitted to them about the myth, they picked certain books by what went together the best and the rest of the books are off somewhere. Then comes another thing, there were thousands of "messiahs" back in that day and they all had pretty big followings too. To believe that the end of the world is predicted in the stories of men (who are fallible, even in the bible) is kinda stupid. What really bugs me are the people who pick and choose what is fact and what is a metaphor for something else.

Also, if the point of life is to worship god to the point where you dont have much free choice and if you screw up a little and die your tortured for eternity....then please, kill me and let me be tortured. I dont want to be with a god that creates people so most can be tortured in a never ending pit of fire.
Religion is a crutch people have used for centuries to show some meaning for life. Thats nice and all for people that need it, but it should be used as a guide to live. Religions teach good values, but when anyone gets caught up in the extremities of religion they turn on their fellow man and that goes against the teachings. Yes, even christians, when you turn the other cheek on people for their beliefs like gays, jews, abortionists, etc it goes against the principles of religion.
Lets see, what else can I rant on. There is no proof that the o-zone is deteriorating and there is no proof global warming exists either. The temperature jump is in direct line with what has happened in the past. There is no deviation from the patterns set. Global warming and the o-zone deterioration are just theories.

I personally believe in the theory that the universe starts with a chemical reaction, a "big bang" the universe expands then retracts again. Then it repeats. This process would take an unfathomable amount of time. Humans wont live that long either, we will most likely kill ourselves through some massive war or some scientific screw up and condemn our species. Either that or a meteor will kill us all. I dont think any of this will happen in our life time.

To be caught up in any of this as to allow it to negatively affect your life is stupid. You shouldn't worry about the innevitable, just make the best out of life.
I am jewish in a sense, I respect the religion, but I dont allow it to control me. I take the morals out of it and thats it. The rest of the old testament (or the whole bible for that matter) is all fictional stories to help you get the most out of life.

Rant...done..
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wolfi1412
post Sep 29 2004, 12:22 AM
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QUOTE(Outtawack311 @ Sep 29 2004, 07:00 AM)
Believing that the "second coming" will come when all jews are back in the holy land and the fighting stops is pretty retarded. First of all, the bible is not truth. Its stories written to give people a way to live (watch penn and teller Bullshit, its a show they have an episode explaining everything you would want to know about the bible). If you believe in god and the teaching how can you believe in the bible? It was written 500 years after anything supposedly happened. Then they left books out of the bible(that are still sanctioned by the church). The bible was assembled by a commitee who picked from hundreds of books submitted to them about the myth, they picked certain books by what went together the best and the rest of the books are off somewhere. Then comes another thing, there were thousands of "messiahs" back in that day and they all had pretty big followings too. To believe that the end of the world is predicted in the stories of men (who are fallible, even in the bible) is kinda stupid. What really bugs me are the people who pick and choose what is fact and what is a metaphor for something else.

Also, if the point of life is to worship god to the point where you dont have much free choice and if you screw up a little and die your tortured for eternity....then please, kill me and let me be tortured. I dont want to be with a god that creates people so most can be tortured in a never ending pit of fire.
Religion is a crutch people have used for centuries to show some meaning for life. Thats nice and all for people that need it, but it should be used as a guide to live. Religions teach good values, but when anyone gets caught up in the extremities of religion they turn on their fellow man and that goes against the teachings. Yes, even christians, when you turn the other cheek on people for their beliefs like gays, jews, abortionists, etc it goes against the principles of religion.
Lets see, what else can I rant on. There is no proof that the o-zone is deteriorating and there is no proof global warming exists either. The temperature jump is in direct line with what has happened in the past. There is no deviation from the patterns set. Global warming and the o-zone deterioration are just theories. 

I personally believe in the theory that the universe starts with a chemical reaction, a "big bang" the universe expands then retracts again. Then it repeats. This process would take an unfathomable amount of time.  Humans wont live that long either, we will most likely kill ourselves through some massive war or some scientific screw up and condemn our species. Either that or a meteor will kill us all. I dont think any of this will happen in our life time.

To be caught up in any of this as to allow it to negatively affect your life is stupid. You shouldn't worry about the innevitable, just make the best out of life.
I am jewish in a sense, I respect the religion, but I dont allow it to control me. I take the morals out of it and thats it. The rest of the old testament (or the whole bible for that matter) is all fictional stories to help you get the most out of life.

Rant...done..

first thing to say, please consider about other people's feelings and beliefs, as a Christian myself, I felt a little bit offended by what you said, maybe you should add like "I think.. " instead of jumping and just points out everything...

A thing that surprises me: you're a Jew, so are you going back to Israel? do you believe that God exists? if God doesn't exists, what creates all things in the first place?

And all kinds of stuff you were saying about the old testament, some of them are found the proof... like the ruins of wheels from Egyptian chariots in the Red Sea. or Noah's Ark.. you can see all the proof, even though it's not yet confirmed, but to me, the Bible's pretty accurate.

Believing or committing into a religion can be a good thing too, I'm studying about the Vikings age, and do you know that one of the things that stopped them from become 'barbarians' again is that they commit to Christianity, so don't think it as bad as what I read what you type/wrote.

And I disagree about when you make a little mistake and you go straight to hell, coz actually if you just ask for forgiveness to God with all your heart and with all your soul, all your sins are forgiven, it is written there! Coz, as you should know, that God is a forgiving God, why do you think He sent Jesus? Would you want to die for someone you doesn't know and he/she is a criminal that doesn't even deserve to live and you're 100% innocent??!?! God did everything out of love, and if you're wondering why.. coz God is love..

I think I have nothing else to say.. so .. been away for 1-2 days..


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Chibi Viki
post Sep 29 2004, 04:56 AM
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ok people... this topic is slowly becoming a war, so before it gets out of hand (and gets ugly) please... cool down... we are all people here.

please be mindful about your posts because other people may be offended... ok? ok...


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filimonovna
post Sep 29 2004, 08:45 AM
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I also think we shouldn't argue.
And i just want to remind everyone, that they should respect each other. otherwise, it will turn into something...unpropriate.


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...if you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of endless run,
Yours is the earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

W. Blake
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rsF
post Sep 29 2004, 09:05 AM
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No offense to anyone religious, but I don't believe it. If truely our end is coming, than it is brought upon by ourselves. It's our fault, and we have to deal with the consequences, however bad they might be. Our fault we use so many resources, kill each other, and basically screw up our home.

The end of the world? Sweet...i'll see you on the other side!
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Guest_Guest_*
post Sep 29 2004, 10:05 AM
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there's a great difference between argue and discussion..
in a argue, you attack a person with insulting words, in a discussion, you attack only the idea that is presented, using arguments.. wink.gif

okay, first off, I agree pretty much with Outtawack311
the bible isn't perfect, it is a selected part of texts, of which some are quite accurate and others are less trustable.. I don't think that much is just thought up, but always more or less connected to facts.. people like Noah, Moses, Jesus, I think it were really existing persons who had a great influence on people's believes.. it is really hard to just bring a myth with people who had so much wisdom.. so here is a medium to find truth: are the things that happen and people really humanly and realistic, and (very important) can you find truth and wisdom that you can apply to your life?

now, religion was in the beginning always a good thing, something to remeber people of their universal bond and responsibility through God.. if you just take the 10 commandements and the 11th of Jesus (love anyone as you would love yourself), then the world would be a great place... but what did religions do when they got more power? they needed to keep their power, and the best way tot do it is by fear.. fear that God will punish you if you don't follow his commandements!! so, I have to live the way of God out of fear, not out of love? the problem is, there is no good nor evil, everything (God) simply Is (can there be anything outside God??).. God can give you advise how to make your live more humane and pleasurable.. he can send you messengers, and messenges, and you might just ignore that or even crusify a messenger because it sounds too good (blasfemy)

now, God will not punish, EVER, because God is love.. he would not demand anything, and will just wait until someone asks him questions about how to live well, and depending on what someone needs at the moment, he will send again advise.. he can't get angry, because he's a good, patient and conent father.. Jesus was a good adviser, a good example, and just living and being yourself in such a great way as He did, is everything you need to let go of your own judgement.. you need no God to forgive you, just forgive yourself, because you are one with God, just like Jesus, or any other human to ever have walked on earth..

there's nothing but God, God Is, he's everything, and is still becoming himself through us, through nature, since beginning of time, untill the end, and then again, because there's no end to Her/It/Him/All
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RoyxRiza BigFan
post Sep 29 2004, 10:10 AM
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actually if any human trys to predict the end of the world date and time exactly will get it wrong, its merely a human error. God is after all GOD..and human is human.(ok ok, i was a little bit sharp there, i mean since the bible said God is ominpotent as written so i just intepreted as what a christian would believe )

but it has some cool verses like the how all things work for the greater good.


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Prinz_Zoisit
post Sep 29 2004, 11:09 AM
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@Wolfie:
[quote] first thing to say, please consider about other people's feelings and beliefs, as a Christian myself, I felt a little bit offended by what you said, maybe you should add like "I think.. " instead of jumping and just points out everything...[/quote]
...don't feel hurt... you have to become stronger in your views of life, don't show fear, wolfie!!^^
...for me, i love it to discuss... and i never feel hurt by the views of another human...



@Outtawack311:
[quote]Religions teach good values, but when anyone gets caught up in the extremities of religion they turn on their fellow man and that goes against the teachings[/quote]
..."fellow man"?... who do you mean?---

[quote]And all kinds of stuff you were saying about the old testament, some of them are found the proof... like the ruins of wheels from Egyptian chariots in the Red Sea. or Noah's Ark.. you can see all the proof, even though it's not yet confirmed, but to me, the Bible's pretty accurate.[/quote]
...i am very bad at talking and discussing about things where there is proof or what isn't true, relating to Christian things-.-...

[quote]Yes, even christians, when you turn the other cheek on people for their beliefs like gays, jews, abortionists, etc it goes against the principles of religion.[/quote]
...yes, it goes against the principles(i'm Christian, but i also got a tendency to things that are strictly against the christian view)...

[quote]Also, if the point of life is to worship god to the point where you dont have much free choice and if you screw up a little and die your tortured for eternity....then please, kill me and let me be tortured[/quote]
I can't imagine that, too... it would be just crazy. Did we have the choice(before we were born) to live this(cruel/wonderful) life?!

[quote]There is no proof that the o-zone is deteriorating and there is no proof global warming exists either.
[/quote]
...you forgot about the theory that the Americans never reached the moon, puh...

[quote]I am jewish in a sense, I respect the religion, but I dont allow it to control me. I take the morals out of it and thats it. The rest of the old testament (or the whole bible for that matter) is all fictional stories to help you get the most out of life.[/quote]
why don't you believe in the constitutional law in your land? That would be the same effect...



@Guest:

[quote]God can give you advise how to make your live more humane and pleasurable..[/quote]
...your constitutional law can give it to you, too...

[quote]he can't get angry, because he's a good, patient and conent father..[/quote]
...there are several things that happened to humans where God showed his anger! God shall be feared(a little bit)...*sigh... <-i love this somehow...

[quote]he can't get angry, because he's a good, patient and conent father..[/quote]
actually this statement is the opinion of someone else(and i actually don't reply to opinions like these), but i have to say, i personally believe that GOd can tear the connection between him and a person!...

[quote]you need no God to forgive you, just forgive yourself, because you are one with God, just like Jesus, or any other human to ever have walked on earth..[/quote]
somebody said....."I(human) am only the smallest thing on Earth!"

[quote]you need no God to forgive you, just forgive yourself, because you are one with God, just like Jesus, or any other human to ever have walked on earth..
[/quote]
you do need GOd to forgive yourself if you believe or else you would make yourself a God and that is corrupt!

[quote]there's nothing but God, God Is, he's everything, and is still becoming himself through us, through nature, since beginning of time, untill the end, and then again, because there's no end to Her/It/Him/All[/quote]
BAH! GOD ISN'T A SHE, NOR AN IT!!! HE IS, WAS AND WILL BE MALE!!!!!! don't mix up(or add something to the bible which actually wasn't meant!) only in order to be more tolerant!!
(That's the biggest mistake that newer Bible-translation make...)


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Guest_Guest_*
post Sep 29 2004, 12:01 PM
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lol, God is a he? I wonder if he sometimes would fall in love with a human woman and do would like to do the same thing as Zeus rolleyes.gif

constitution is an outflow of human's will for freedom, and freedom is a gift from God, and God's nature.. now, we don't have to name God with it, as long as we concentrate at the things that are good for us, that means humane (in the sense of all of us, not just yourself!! giving freedom means gaining freedom! taking freedom means losing freedom)

now, if God really can be angry and punishes, that means that 1. he doesn't respect the right of freedom 2. he's a tiran 3. he is emotionally imbalanced... I think we should start a revolt and kick him from his throne so we can install an heavanly constitution for real freedom! as in heaven, so on earth! (but since I still believe in a other kind of God, I do not believe he really punishes us.. if he would do, he would commiting a deadly sin: wrath! 'thou shall not kill' 'love your enemies', God would be contradicting himself! THAT is corrupt!!)

let's say again that God is the total of all things, the Absolute Being... even the smallest part of an atom may be very small and playing his own small role, but is is his role, and he isn't worth less than holy persons.. in fact, all life is even holy, since it all came from God, and it all was perfect... God doesn't make mistakes, so he doens't need to 'correct' mistakes by destruction or punishment.. neither can he deny a part of Himself, that means, he can't even break the relation with a very small atom.. an atom is a small part of God, and so am I.. some parts of God can have a grudge against me, kill me in this body and life (the soul never dies, it is your real 'me') and call it wrath of God, but as long as I can forgive myself, I'm happy and no one can hurt me.. I'm not worse, and not better than God, not mightier, not weaker.. I play my own small part, I Am...

up till now, God never abandoned me.. I always got what I asked for, he never judged me or punished me, I can be whatever I want to be, and since God never stopted me, I guess this is what he really wants from us: choose your own way and become want you want to be... I'm always around you, and give you the bread of Life that you ask..
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Girlie Alchemist
post Sep 29 2004, 12:14 PM
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@.@ so many lines @.@ tooke me long to read


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Prinz_Zoisit
post Sep 29 2004, 01:29 PM
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@Guest:

GOd loves his work(humanity, etc) as its whole...
it's not necessary for him to "love such simple way of love" as we humans do...
speaking as a christian: is it by accident that he chose a male-body-form for his only son Jesus?!
...you are very smart and you are presenting arguments logically... i like that way you're talking...(but you surely know it already), while i am discussing mainly with my feelings and aesthetic instincts(logic: second place)...
...i don't think that what we humans did(constitutional global laws) is actually what GOd wants(it is "imperfect", but the most tolerant)... like gay-marriages for example, etc...
Freedom would exist, too(after global constitution), if nobody would talk to each other... and i don't think that this is right!...
you're reaching the level where you force me to talk about my views, which i usually don't present so easily:
...of course everything plays its role, but GOd made a hierarchy(between ppl and animals for example)...
mathematically, a "small part of God(who is infinite)" would be equal to an "atom with (i.e. one fourth of infinite=infinite) infinite knowledge, power, etc" would be equal to "me(who would be infinite)"...
...do you want to say that we all are perfect?
there IS evil in this world i believe, and this can't belong to God...

...yes, "global levels/degrees" actually are "only" "global levels/degrees"...
...the bread of life... shall be hope... yes, hope is the only hope...


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wolfi1412
post Sep 29 2004, 04:48 PM
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Guest, that was a long post.. I'll try to reply ..

First of all, don't make Zeus and God the same, their characteristics are totally different. Zeus is a player or a cheater.. that doesn't make a role model, but God is totally different.. and you said that God is emotionally imbalanced coz He gets angry and punish people.. I say, try top put yourself in God's position, then you'll see..the reasons why He gets angry, to me, the reason is because us, foolish and selfish human beings, (which is us.. including me) just drives him crazy with all the evilness that we did to this planet. Name one time that God gets angry without any human involves in it...

QUOTE
up till now, God never abandoned me.. I always got what I asked for, he never judged me or punished me, I can be whatever I want to be, and since God never stopted me, I guess this is what he really wants from us: choose your own way and become want you want to be... I'm always around you, and give you the bread of Life that you ask..


you're right that God never abandons you.. and some peole say that God abandoned them, which is for me I think is BS, coz the one that's being abandon is not us, but God Himself...God can be said is just like the Mother Chicken who's trying to gather all the chicks under her wings so whenever trouble comes, she can protects them... (I'm using a parable here)

Truly, Religion never causes war, if you think it logically, basically all religion that's well-known (Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim, etc.) teaches about bringing Peace to the world, so, do you think it's silly to bring up religion as a reason to have war? the reason for wars is because of Greed.. we want what other country have.. or Jealousy is one of the reasons.

is that all? too many words.. can't read.. 'em...all..


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post Sep 29 2004, 09:12 PM
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Well Ive researchd alot of different religions and they all come to one same conclusion
They all belive In One Omnipitent god,granted Hinduism is sorta awkward with this seeing as they have Shiva,Brahma, Vishnu. But those three make up the one holy lord.


But in most of my knowledge of other religions what Im about to say may sound self-absorbed or just plain wrong and if someone takes offense please do not think ill of me.

The End of the world could happen at any moment but know matter how I lived my life Im happy knowing I have Great Friends,family,job,Food,housing,(cable modem lol)
This is all that matters to me when it comes to however the World ends.
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post Sep 30 2004, 08:35 AM
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waii ^^ I didn't have such a good discussion in a time...

it was a good idea for Jesus to pick a male body, beacause he lived in times that men were more respected as a leader or rabbi than women (actually, if a woman even tried, I think she would have problems pretty fast o_0).. now, the thought that God is a He came out of a patriarchal society.. other older tribes had a Godess as the one God (which was most often the mother Godess of creation).. if there was an matriarchal society now, and Christ would come again, than this time he would rather take an female body.. (or take a male body to go on jihaad and prove the superiority of males tongue.gif )

well, our world of rights, politics, economics etc. still isn't right, because it doesn't serve all humanity (and nature) in the best way... the best way is that you know how tot take care and responsibility for yourself and others around you.. that's what Jesus did, he took all of his life, and ALL life that exists on his shoulders.. we can do that too, if we want to follow him, we must take 'our own cross'.. Jesus was great because he gave all of himslef to the world, without losing anything (dignity, life).. knowing that your life is not limited to your own survival and pleasure, but has influence and a strong bond with all life, all the time, makes you that can give (and so become) all that you have (and are) to the world, without feeling fear or the feeling of being limited... in that way Jesus WAS God, unlimited, allmighty and allpresent... but he was not the only one who ever got that far,buddha for exemple came to this state of spirit too (enlightenment).. all people can do that, a lot of simple humans ('saints') proved us!!

now, someone that has all sins and all good in himself (that IS Jesus' sacrifice and glory), can't kill or destroy the sins (he would admit he isn't perfect), but rather than that, he can turn that what was a sin (what made humans suffer, not because it was a punishment of God, but a natural outflow of universal laws) into something human-worthy, so that one can accept it and forgive himself and others.. Jesus is within every person (the Allpresent), so the moment you feel he has forgiven you, you really have forgiven yourself, because he lets you live your own way (otherwise he would be limiting himself).. if there really is something God doesn't like, he shouldn't have created it in the first place!! there are things HUMANS call evil, but exepting that it is something we can change ourselves, and that it is a part of God, so it must have a perfect meaning and place in the whole hierarchy, we can forgive and love it, and give ourselves salvation by making something better out of it.. only by living through life in al its degrees, we can get to know life, exept life, love life, and become life (now, use instead of 'life' 'Jesus', or 'God', or 'Tao', or whatever you like)

'Im am the Truth, the Path and Life' not just the nice, sunny and good part of it, but also the painful and dark side, because without gradations, you can't tell good from bad.. God has to be less than he is in order to know his full potential, and so even the worst things are holy (the crusifiction for example! or holocaust) because that defines for us what is more godly (or humanly/naturally), and what is less.. we aren't bad, we are just a lot less than what we can be in full potential...
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