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Mistakes & Redemption, Thoughts on the movie (spoilers)
Katana Alchemist
post Sep 13 2005, 06:50 PM
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I thought the movie was excellent. The ending itself was perfect. If you keep in mind that the whole story arc of Fullmetal Alchemist is about two children that commit an awful sin and have to live with the consequences of it, I think the ending is satisfying.
Throughout the whole storyline, Equivalent Exchange is maintained:
1. Ed & Al commit a terrible sin. As payment, Al dies and Ed loses an arm.
2. Ed brings Al back to life. As payment, Ed loses his leg and Al is trapped in a metal suit of armor.
...skip ahead to end of series...
3. Al brings a murdered Ed back to life and gives him his real arm & leg. As payment, Al (and the rest of the Philosopher's Stone) is consumed.
4. Ed brings Al back to life in his full body. As payment, Ed is taken beyond the gate, he's stuck with his automail again and Al loses his memory.
...skip to movie...
5. Al opens the gate. As payment Wrath and the rest of the Philosopher's Stone (which I assume is what makes Gluttony superpowerful) is consumed.
6. Ed is reunited with Al. As payment a few (hundred) people decide to tag along and wreak havoc on Hagaren World.
7. Ed goes back through the gate to destroy the portal. However, he's finally reunited with his brother and Al has his memories back. As payment they're stuck in our crappy world.

However, they're together and have (most of) their bodies back. They can continue their journey and they have each other. Al can feel human again and they've fulfilled their goal.

Our lives are all about the choices we make and the mistakes that screw them up. They're also about learning from consequences and trying to fix those mistakes.

Bottom line: Equivalent Exchange isn't just about alchemy. It's about how everything you do has a consequence, a price you have to pay. Fullmetal Alchemist is about the Elrics learning that fact and dealing with it. Yeah, things are not the same since they commited the ultimate sin in alchemy and they shouldn't be. However, they have found a balance they can live with. Al has his body and Ed can live with his automail. They're together and the world is wide open for them to explore.

Other random thoughts:
The entrance of Mustang was really really cool. In fact all the battle scenes were very cool. I kinda expected Mustang to casually waltz in there like that and lay the smack down. I was not dissappointed.
I don't think I've ever seen a character look so fearsome while at the same time being totally goofy and silly. The Armstrong stone head alchemy thing was great. I fell out of my chair laughing.
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Ed-o Elrich
post Sep 13 2005, 07:56 PM
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In the last few episodes of the series though, we learn there is no equivelant exchange; it doesn't exist.

I agree with a great deal of what you said, but we have to remember that...equivalent exchange is not really a law of alchemy or the world really, at least according to the end of the show..
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Katana Alchemist
post Sep 13 2005, 08:21 PM
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well the main point of my post was to address the people who were dissappointed with the ending. i can't tell them they were wrong to be dissappointed by it, but i was trying to show how to me the ending of the show was very appropriate.
the show doesn't end happily ever after, but al and ed are reunited, al gets his body back and the two have a great deal of wisdom they've gained from their adventure. they'd set out to get al's body back and they accomplished that. though they didn't fix ed, i think he can live with it. they'd learned from their mistakes and they seemed happy and able to face the future.
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FullMetal_Stella
post Sep 14 2005, 11:07 AM
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You said:
1. Ed & Al commit a terrible sin. As payment, Al dies and Ed loses an arm.
2. Ed brings Al back to life. As payment, Ed loses his leg and Al is trapped in a metal suit of armor.
...skip ahead to end of series...


Not true, Al lost his body (kinda died yeah) and Ed lost his LEG not arm. It was his arm he payed with to bring Al back^^;;


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FMAlover^
post Sep 15 2005, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE
You said:
1. Ed & Al commit a terrible sin. As payment, Al dies and Ed loses an arm.
2. Ed brings Al back to life. As payment, Ed loses his leg and Al is trapped in a metal suit of armor.
...skip ahead to end of series...


Not true, Al lost his body (kinda died yeah) and Ed lost his LEG not arm. It was his arm he payed with to bring Al back^^;;



Yeah, its his leg.


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Red Shadow
post Sep 21 2005, 02:32 AM
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Also Al wasn't really dead all that time, so Ed couldn't bring him back to life. Besides, they had just royally screwed that up with their mother. Ed bound Al's soul to the armor in exchange for his right arm. Just to clarify. smile.gif


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Katana Alchemist
post Nov 16 2005, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE(Red Shadow @ Sep 21 2005, 04:32 AM) [snapback]289842[/snapback]

Also Al wasn't really dead all that time, so Ed couldn't bring him back to life. Besides, they had just royally screwed that up with their mother. Ed bound Al's soul to the armor in exchange for his right arm. Just to clarify. smile.gif


sorry about the leg mixup. you can also view that al never died seeing as how bringing him back would have been a human transmutation. or something.
but my point is that the elrics' story begins with them commiting a terrible sin and trying to go against the laws of nature, that death is part of. they pay dearly. ed loses his arm and leg and al is forced into a metal shell. the rest of the show is basically their search to get things back to where they were before.
i didn't think that the show would end up with everyone living happily ever after, unfortunately. let's face it, fma is a pretty dark show. it seemed that no matter what the two elrics did they never quite got back to where they were supposed to be. ed gets his arm and leg back but al dies, al gets his body back but loses his memory and ed gets sent to the other side of the gate, etc.
basically i just wanted al to get his body back and for him to be with ed. i think ed can live with having a prosthetic arm and leg, lots of people do. but al's case is much worse. he can't feel, he can't even eat dinner with other people. hell he's not even sure he's human at times. the symbolism of his body being an EMPTY suit of army is excellent.
basically i wanted him to get his body back and to be able to face the future with ed. it's sad that the two are stuck in another world, but things can't always be perfect.
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Ed Elrich
post Nov 16 2005, 12:54 PM
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O.k so give the breakdown of what happen in the movie because i dont know what the hell your talking about.


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Tombow
post Nov 16 2005, 01:16 PM
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@Ed Elrich - Movie summary might help??
Movie summary thread


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Nubz
post Nov 16 2005, 01:20 PM
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The bottom line here is that this was a very sad ending. You can say otherwise all you want, but to all the people who knew them, the Elric brothers might as well be dead because they'll never see them again. They're trying to teach us that life isn't fair, but do we really need some anime director to tell us that? We're not children, and this was extremely condescending.

They took the fullmetal world, what everyone had fell in love with, and decided to practically just throw it away. An alternate universe? Come on now, was that really necessary? The WWII setting just plain sucked. I said this in the other thread but I'll say it here too; after ep. 48 or so FMA doesn't even feel like the same series.

Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow, this is more of a rant than anything else.
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kaizenyorii
post Nov 16 2005, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE(Nubz @ Nov 16 2005, 03:20 PM) [snapback]315611[/snapback]

The bottom line here is that this was a very sad ending. You can say otherwise all you want, but to all the people who knew them, the Elric brothers might as well be dead because they'll never see them again. They're trying to teach us that life isn't fair, but do we really need some asshole anime director to tell us that? We're not children, and this was extremely condescending.

They took the fullmetal world, what everyone had fell in love with, and decided to practically just throw it away. An alternate universe? Come on now, was that really necessary? The WWII setting just plain sucked. I said this in the other thread but I'll say it here too; after ep. 48 or so FMA doesn't even feel like the same series.

Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow, this is more of a rant than anything else.


Have faith in the manga. Things will turn out better there


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TheVileOne
post Nov 16 2005, 11:31 PM
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QUOTE(Nubz @ Nov 16 2005, 08:20 PM) [snapback]315611[/snapback]

The bottom line here is that this was a very sad ending. You can say otherwise all you want, but to all the people who knew them, the Elric brothers might as well be dead because they'll never see them again. They're trying to teach us that life isn't fair, but do we really need some anime director to tell us that? We're not children, and this was extremely condescending.


I don't think they are trying to teach us that at all. And despite everything that happened, Ed and Al were still reunited and alive. That's the important thing to me, at the end of their journey they were given some measure of peace with each other. I don't see what is so bad about that.

QUOTE

They took the fullmetal world, what everyone had fell in love with, and decided to practically just throw it away. An alternate universe? Come on now, was that really necessary? The WWII setting just plain sucked. I said this in the other thread but I'll say it here too; after ep. 48 or so FMA doesn't even feel like the same series.


It wasn't a WWII setting, the war had yet to start. It was pre-WWII before Hitler came into power. I don't see what sucks about it either.



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This is who I am and who I will always be…I am Chris Benoit!"
- "The Crippler" Chris Benoit
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Katana Alchemist
post Nov 17 2005, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE(Nubz @ Nov 16 2005, 03:20 PM) [snapback]315611[/snapback]

The bottom line here is that this was a very sad ending. You can say otherwise all you want, but to all the people who knew them, the Elric brothers might as well be dead because they'll never see them again. They're trying to teach us that life isn't fair, but do we really need some anime director to tell us that? We're not children, and this was extremely condescending.

They took the fullmetal world, what everyone had fell in love with, and decided to practically just throw it away. An alternate universe? Come on now, was that really necessary? The WWII setting just plain sucked. I said this in the other thread but I'll say it here too; after ep. 48 or so FMA doesn't even feel like the same series.

Hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow, this is more of a rant than anything else.


do you consider a family moving to another state to live to be "very sad"?
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Nubz
post Nov 18 2005, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE(Katana Alchemist @ Nov 18 2005, 01:04 AM) [snapback]316455[/snapback]
do you consider a family moving to another state to live to be "very sad"?


It's much more like moving to a whole 'nother continent, except you don't have telephone, email, anything. So yeah I'd consider that sad.

Anyways I was really just letting off some steam. Now that I've had a couple days to think about it I can live with the ending. It's not what I would have preferred, but eh, what can ya do.
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Katana Alchemist
post Nov 18 2005, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE(Nubz @ Nov 18 2005, 01:59 PM) [snapback]316583[/snapback]

QUOTE(Katana Alchemist @ Nov 18 2005, 01:04 AM) [snapback]316455[/snapback]
do you consider a family moving to another state to live to be "very sad"?


It's much more like moving to a whole 'nother continent, except you don't have telephone, email, anything. So yeah I'd consider that sad.

Anyways I was really just letting off some steam. Now that I've had a couple days to think about it I can live with the ending. It's not what I would have preferred, but eh, what can ya do.


fair enough. i agree it's certainly not a perfect ending for everyone, but i consider it a happy one because i think every single character is happier at the end of the movie than they were at the beginning.
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