HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Chat About The Movie, Anyone?, SPOILERS
FullMetal Shrimp
post Feb 4 2006, 01:35 PM
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QUOTE(Kazer @ Jul 23 2005, 09:09 AM) [snapback]224149[/snapback]

If they destroyed the gate, wouldn't alchemists from the Hagaren world not be able to use alchemy anymore since using alchemy requires energy drawn from our world.


That isn't entirely true. What they destroyed was A gate that the people created, not THE Gate. And because of that, Alchemy should still exist in the Hagaren world. What they were going to destroy was the gate that was created in order to have both worlds maintain their peace.


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Jedi28
post Feb 15 2006, 10:19 AM
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I had a question that I haven't seen addressed yet. Sorry, if I missed something or am forgetting something about the series/movie...anyway, why could Ed suddenly use Alchemy in the real world when he opened the gate and the soldiers came back through? I noticed he bled on his hand (from the cut on his face) so does that mean he can use alchemy in the real world if he just simply bleeds on himself?


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Winkle
post Feb 15 2006, 11:30 AM
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QUOTE(Jedi28 @ Feb 15 2006, 12:04 PM) [snapback]350276[/snapback]

I had a question that I haven't seen addressed yet. Sorry, if I missed something or am forgetting something about the series/movie...anyway, why could Ed suddenly use Alchemy in the real world when he opened the gate and the soldiers came back through? I noticed he bled on his hand (from the cut on his face) so does that mean he can use alchemy in the real world if he just simply bleeds on himself?


That's one of the many gi-normous plot holes in the movie.

[spoiler]I don't think there's any good explanation for this other then lazy writing. They stated in the movie itself repeatedly that alchemy isn't possible in "our" world, yet it is when they needed it to be. I had a discussion with a friend over this, and he said it's possible because Envy was there. Which really doesn't mean anything. Envy is a Homoculi, who can't even perform alchemy himself so how can he make alchemy possible for someone else? I can see the point of the blood being the eqivalent exchange for transmuting the gates but they show that it activates the power of alchemy which makes absolutely no sense either.

I think though because Envy is a Homoculi and he has red stones inside him, it makes it possible? BUT red stones don't create power for alchemy, it simply amplifies the power of alchemy, and when you amplify nothing you still get nothing. And I thought it was rather uncharacteristic of Ed to just finish a transmutation circle he sees in the middle of nowhere. Does he not find it strange there is a large incompete transmutation drawn there? Wouldn't he investigate instead of picking up the chalk and finish drawing it?

I dunno.[/spoiler]


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Jedi28
post Feb 15 2006, 04:11 PM
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I thought it was probably a plot hole. Thanks!

And yeah I thought the same thing when I saw Ed doing that. [spoiler] Oh lookie, here's a piece of chalk and an unfinished transmutation circle in an old fortress where I have reason to believe bad guys are hanging out. Why don't I just go ahead and finish it for them so they can continue with their nefarious plot?[/spoiler]

Oh yeah, and another thing that bothers me WAY more than it should. If you work out all the dates and ages in the Anime you'll find that movie Ed should be 18 and movie Al should be 12. BUT they're 17 and 13 respectively which means movie Ed is a year YOUNGER than he should and movie Al is a year OLDER than he should be.


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Colette
post Feb 18 2006, 10:39 AM
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QUOTE(Siobhain_chan @ Jul 23 2005, 01:30 AM) [snapback]224002[/snapback]



IZUMI!!!!!! ;_;


Funny, that was my only comment on the movie at one site.




*sob*



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Popogeejo
post Feb 20 2006, 01:21 PM
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QUOTE(Kazer @ Jul 23 2005, 03:09 PM) [snapback]224149[/snapback]

If they destroyed the gate, wouldn't alchemists from the Hagaren world not be able to use alchemy anymore since using alchemy requires energy drawn from our world.



Where does it say theres only one gate?
Remeber Henohiem(sp?) said there was "a gate in everyone."
Maybe this means Ed and Al will burst out of Roy or maybe there is another way for ed and Al to return.
I thought the ending,while a bit of a cop out,was good.The brothers wanted to be together and they are now.
What I want to know is why Roy was demoted and why was he in the snowy place.


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Jedi28
post Feb 20 2006, 02:09 PM
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In the Anime they discussed the fact that Roy would never be Fuhrer (or even make it any higher in the ranks) if he killed the Bradley. This was because no one would accept a leader who'd killed the previous leader. Roy said he didn't care because avenging Hughes was more important. Also, Bradley's body was destroyed so Roy had no evidence to prove what he really was. Ed was gone so he couldn't say, and Al couldn't remember. None of Roy's friends would be believed because they're his friends obviously. So you have Roy attacking Central and killing the Fuhrer because he CLAIMS that the Fuhrer was a bad guy. Obviously he was at least partly believed because he wasn't arrested or executed. It makes sense though, that once everything calmed down and the new Parliament was established that one of the things they would do was punish Roy. Again, the fact that they merely demoted him and stuck him in the boondocks showed a major concession on their part in that they were willing to accept his word at least in part. Anyway, that's my reasoning on it. smile.gif


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Popogeejo
post Feb 20 2006, 03:06 PM
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I'll buy that although if I were Roy I'd have said Archer did it and thats why Hawkeye executed him.It's air tight.[/joke]

QUOTE(Winkle @ Feb 15 2006, 06:15 PM) [snapback]350281[/snapback]

QUOTE(Jedi28 @ Feb 15 2006, 12:04 PM) [snapback]350276[/snapback]

I had a question that I haven't seen addressed yet. Sorry, if I missed something or am forgetting something about the series/movie...anyway, why could Ed suddenly use Alchemy in the real world when he opened the gate and the soldiers came back through? I noticed he bled on his hand (from the cut on his face) so does that mean he can use alchemy in the real world if he just simply bleeds on himself?


That's one of the many gi-normous plot holes in the movie.

[spoiler]I don't think there's any good explanation for this other then lazy writing. They stated in the movie itself repeatedly that alchemy isn't possible in "our" world, yet it is when they needed it to be. I had a discussion with a friend over this, and he said it's possible because Envy was there. Which really doesn't mean anything. Envy is a Homoculi, who can't even perform alchemy himself so how can he make alchemy possible for someone else? I can see the point of the blood being the eqivalent exchange for transmuting the gates but they show that it activates the power of alchemy which makes absolutely no sense either.

I think though because Envy is a Homoculi and he has red stones inside him, it makes it possible? BUT red stones don't create power for alchemy, it simply amplifies the power of alchemy, and when you amplify nothing you still get nothing. And I thought it was rather uncharacteristic of Ed to just finish a transmutation circle he sees in the middle of nowhere. Does he not find it strange there is a large incompete transmutation drawn there? Wouldn't he investigate instead of picking up the chalk and finish drawing it?

I dunno.[/spoiler]


People said man couldn't walk on the moon but we have now.Who's to say the flow of alchemical power doesn't go both ways?Noah could use alchemy as far as I understood.maybe it just took more in this world for Ed to work his mojo.As for why he comleted the circle it's simple.
If you're lost and see a possible route home are you going to say "nah,I've been told by others it's imossible even though I never tried a trandmutaion circle myself" or are you going to say "worth a try isn't it?"


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Jedi28
post Feb 20 2006, 03:39 PM
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No, Noah never used alchemy. She was able to touch someone and see into their past apparently, it was never really explained how she could do it, but it wasn't alchemy. Basically they played off the stereotypical gypsy idea where gypsy's are supposedly able to tell your fortune and see into the future (stereotyped image of a gypsy woman with a crystal ball type thing). Here they altered it slightly by having Noah able to see into the past and she did it by touching and not a crystal ball.

Ed could have drawn any number of transmutation circles by himself for the two years he was there, he didn't need the one in the castle. He went to the castle because he suspected bad guys were there so I was surprised that he'd just happily complete the circle when he could (if he'd really wanted) have just memorized it, gone home and repeated it elsewhere in a safer place that wasn't likely to be swarming with bad guys.

Also, if Ed was so intent on getting home why didn't he pursue the "blood on hand" thing to work alchemy? In the movie, he's surprised when the circle works (after touching it with a bloody hand) but then he never apparently reflects on it again. It's like "oh, after two years of trying, I was able to work alchemy by bleeding on my hand and touching a transmutation circle, that's nice. Well, on to my next project."


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Winkle
post Feb 20 2006, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE(popogeejo @ Feb 20 2006, 03:06 PM) [snapback]352381[/snapback]

QUOTE(Kazer @ Jul 23 2005, 03:09 PM) [snapback]224149[/snapback]

If they destroyed the gate, wouldn't alchemists from the Hagaren world not be able to use alchemy anymore since using alchemy requires energy drawn from our world.



Where does it say theres only one gate?
Remeber Henohiem(sp?) said there was "a gate in everyone."


I've always taken that as a bad attempt at a deep metaphor, and it turned out to be nonsensical.

Again, the problem I have with the whole alchemy magically working in our world thing is that they REPEATEDLY stated in both the movie and the end of the series that alchemy simply isn't possible. Over and over again, they say it like multiple times in the film as well. And then BAM, it just suddenly works. Worst yet, there's no explanation, it just worked and we're left to wonder why. The only hints we're given is that Envy was there, and as I've explained before, his presence doesn't explain anything.

Man landing on the moon isn't the same thing. You're comparing technology, people said it couldn't be done because of the sheer enormity of the task, the technology and the money and resources involved, that no one had up until 40 years ago. It was impossible in the sense that it was too difficult to accomplish, but it wasn't impossible because it would violate an established law of the universe.


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Popogeejo
post Feb 20 2006, 04:11 PM
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Henohaims metaphor was kind of silly.I just liked the idea of Ed bursting out of people(I think Alien might have effcted me a bit).
Maybe the Alchemy will be explained in a future sequal.If Hamaturo(sp?) can have so many films why can't FMA.


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Winkle
post Feb 20 2006, 04:14 PM
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QUOTE(popogeejo @ Feb 20 2006, 05:56 PM) [snapback]352508[/snapback]

Henohaims metaphor was kind of silly.I just liked the idea of Ed bursting out of people(I think Alien might have effcted me a bit).
Maybe the Alchemy will be explained in a future sequal.If Hamaturo(sp?) can have so many films why can't FMA.


Yea but let's not compare Hamturo to FMA biggrin.gif

I'm not discounting the possibility that it could be explained in the future, I just wished they did it in the movie, seeing as how it was such an important element for the film and all.


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Jedi28
post Feb 20 2006, 06:37 PM
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That "we all have a little gate" metaphor was really lame.

Yeah, I wish they'd explained it instead of "Oh, look, it works for the purposes of advancing the plot because we couldn't think of any other way to do it! And now it doesn't work again." I noticed when rewatching the end of the Anime that they set up several things that were then explained or furthered in the movie. It seems to me that they did the same thing in the movie which would suggest they were at least entertaining the idea of a sequel.

One of the OVA's on the Premium Collection next month is supposed to be a Chibi style party where all the characters from Conqueror of Shambala get together for an after movie party. What'd I'd like to see is:

ChibiAl: Wow, that was a really good movie.
ChibiEd: It sure was.
ChibiAl: So when are we going to get started on the sequel?
ChibiEd: Any day now chibiAl.
ChibiAl: You know, even as chibis, I'm STILL taller than you.
ChibiEd: I hate you.

smile.gif


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The Great Aspara...
post Feb 20 2006, 07:09 PM
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the movie was pretty nice in my opinion. even though the ending made me cry my eyes out and rip my heart into pieces, i suppose the angst is entrancing... somehow. although, i woulda still preferred a happyful ending. but! the thing that i find realllly sad, is what happened to izumi! ;_; wahh they just killed her off like that, for no good reason. although without her, it'd make ed and al have most difficulty on their side of the gate, but ..... *bursts into tears* T__T


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RemAkimichi
post Feb 20 2006, 07:21 PM
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I always took the "Gate in everyone" to mean death (which, you know, I'm probably stating the obvious by saying that).

What I never understood:(in weird quote box because I don't know how to do the spoiler code)
QUOTE( spoilers)
How did they come back in the end? I know that using Envy was a way to force the gate open for travel, but how did they do it to get back? There was no transmutation circle mid-air over Amestris, and I don't think Edo managed to steer a failing air-ship back to the underground cities circle. What was the Equivelant Exchange for them going back? It just makes me want to pull out my hair. If they could do it that way, then they could go home too, with the whole blood-on-transmutation-circle thing.


*flails* its crazy, thats what it is.


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