HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Is Royai Overrated?
Is RoyAi overrated?
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POTOPHREAK
post Jun 2 2005, 12:53 AM
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About why I like Royai so much, in reply to Penguin's post:
1. Obvious reason that it is so obvious, especially in the last episode of the anime.
2. I am really moved by Riza' s protection and loyalty to Roy. I am a girl, and that is part of the reason-- Riza did so many great things for Roy, made so many sacrfices.
And also Roy's trust of her. I mean, it isn't hard to see (in the manga I mean) how Hawkeye is treated differently from the other military people. Roy absolutely trusts in her, and she's the first person he asked to follow him to central. Also, when he sees Riza with Barry the Chopper, Roy goes really mad. And of course, in Chapter 38 and Chapter 39. To conclude, Riza and Roy have some connection that is deeper than a lot of anime pairings. Other anime pairings may kiss, hug, go out dating and so on, but I believe that RoyAi is much deeper than that.
3. I must agree that there are some totally idiotic het pairings, like for instance, ArmStrongAi (that is retarded). As for HavocAi, goodness, Havoc treating her as a superior.
4. They are adults. Not immature 15-16 yrs old young girl young boy crush.

EDIT: *takes back the "scared" part cos it's stupid...* sry

5. They look great together. Guns and flame. Perfect. biggrin.gif

*pokes siggy*

Ah well, those who don't like Royai may think that I am too obsessed, but nothing can stop me from loving RoyAi, supporting it and defending it from haters/dislikers.


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angieness
post Jun 2 2005, 03:51 PM
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heh I'll admit HavocxRiza is very cute but there's no substance to support it


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Electrastar
post Jun 2 2005, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE(angieness @ Jun 2 2005, 03:51 PM)
heh I'll admit HavocxRiza is very cute but there's no substance to support it
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Maybe I missed something, but I can't recall a time when Havoc was affraid of Hawkeye...And as much as I love Roy and Riza together, I think Havoc and Riza makes a lot of sense....I mean, after Hawkeye hersefl and Hughes, Havoc seems to have been the third person that stuck with the longest, so a romance behind the scene might be true.


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Elderberry
post Jun 3 2005, 02:09 AM
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I support Royai. I'm not a very active supporter, since I'm also happen to be a huge fan of Ed/Winry, but I do support them. happy.gif


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Reika
post Jun 11 2005, 11:25 AM
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Hello! I think that my avatar says everything XD but well... I wanted to say what I think about royai and other couples:

Do you... seriously need to read the words "I love you" from one to another to know two poeple are in love??? Because if that's the case there wouldn't be any Roy/Ed etc, but when it comes to royai or Ed/winry everybody says "when did they say they love each other?" and that makes me go to a puzzled "WTF" state XDD you don't need to say "I love you" to actually say that XD.

Evidences are ALL OVER the anime, merchandising, videogames and more from the manga! All cames from the manga, so the manga has the last word, sorry guys ^^ , and not only hints, but real proves. Come on, do you really think that Hawkeye would go out with Havoc when... [spoiler]she gave up on her own life when she thought roy had died?[/spoiler] And I think that Havoc is a little bit... scared of hawkeye, though I don't know that for sure XD.

And do you really think that Roy would go out with a guy that is 13 years YOUNGER and when he is always going out with girls??? I seriously doubt he is gay! XD and besides, Roy... [spoiler] almost killed himself when he went with a terrible wound on his ribs to where Hawkeye was to kill Lust[/spoiler] ...and I think that the last episode is more than an evidence, his entire facial expression and seriousness on his eyes is different from what he uses with other girls.

I don't like uncannon pairings, but I don't hate them either, what if someone wants to believe or finds exciting that Ed and Roy or Havoc and Riza are in love? What I hate is the fact that most of those alternate couple fans are completely against the cannon couples and even hate us! O.o I don't say all of them, but many of them yes. You are in your right to like a couple, but don't impose your likes over what's evident. Yesterday a friend of mine recieved this review from a Roy/Ed lover in her royai fanfic: "Royed and Royal rules, u die!" etc. Do you find that normal???? First of all, if you don't like royai... DON'T READ ROYAI STUFF! >.< that kind of poeple really piss me off.

Why I like Royai:

1)I think it's a relationship more deep than "oooooooh I love her/him~, he/she is my whole~" all over the series and when they confese it "the end" XD, I find it more real than many other relationships.
2)I find interesting the fact that roy is a playboy that goes out with everywomen and Riza seems that she hasn't have any relationship in her life XDD though I might be wrong, but I like to think that way XD
3)Both being adults makes the relationship more interesting
4)In the manga it seems as if they were married XD, they act like a real married couple
5)I don't think there's anyone that understands them better, they really know each other and seem to meant for each other. They are confortable with each other and they are almost everytime together.
6)I love riza's devotion for him and they are worried about each other almost all the time ^0^ well, in dangerous situations ^^
And finally:
7)They look really good together! ^0^

mmm... I think that's all I wanted to add to this post ^^


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Wandering Nameki...
post Jun 11 2005, 07:03 PM
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I really like this (for lack of a better term) "type" of ship. I don't really know how to explain it, I guess it could be called the "protector" ship or something of that nature; there are a lot of aspects to it. For all of you who support the Ling/Ran Fan ship (as I do) the two ships are very similar (Ling and Ran Fan are just younger). Roy and Ling have very similar goals and Ran Fan and Riza are basically doing the same thing, and are basically in the same situation (Riza is Roy's subordinate and Ran Fan is Ling's servant). I haven't really seen this kind of relationship anywhere else in anything I've read/seen, but I like it a lot. There are times when it seems that Ling and Ran Fan are just younger versions of Riza and Roy from another country, well, kind of.


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post Jun 12 2005, 05:43 PM
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I agree with you and Reika, thank you! and I like Ling/Lan Fan too, hurray! they so go with each other!


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Mistress of Dark...
post Jul 5 2005, 03:56 PM
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*grins manically* I'm just going to completely rock this boat by climbing to the top of the forum building and shouting:

I LOVE BOTH ROYAI AND ROY x ED!!!!!! WOOOOHOOO!!!!!!

*snickers insanely because it's the truth*

Why I love Royai: I hate to sound like a broken record, but it's so obvious. Just to let you know, I've never read the Manga (I want to!), but even in the anime I could just tell. Potofreak (top of page 3) described Royai very well, even without me reading the spoilers (because I'm going by CN's airings and I'm not a big fan of spoilers at.all.)

Why I love Ed x Roy: First of all, I'd like to commend Penguin for sticking up for what they believe in; most people here are royai freaks, and it's just very difficult to stand up and go against the crowd - you've got a lot of courage. ^^

Okay, so anyway, why I like Roy & Ed: I get the feeling that most people here just see their little spats as evidence that it can't happen, but to me, and with the fanfics I see *ON FF.N,* it's always one of the strongest anchoring points for their relationship - the fact that they argue. Someone said that Roy and Riza are practically married in the manga (I'll take their word for it); to fan writers, Roy and Ed act like an old married couple with all the fighting they do.

I know that because they have their little spats, some of you are also trying to use the argument that they "TOTALLY HATE EACH OTHER OMG!!!!" but in fact, they don't. Even I, who is up to like... Episode 26, can tell that Roy is not a heartless bastard and he really cares about Edward. Here's a direct quote from Episode 25, dubbed version (I spent 15 minutes sitting in my room rewinding the tape again and again to get the thing exact - right down to assumed punctuation):

Roy Mustang: “Why didn’t he tell me, Lieutenant? Ed and Al in danger. Lab 5. Maybe I could have done something to help.”

Riza Hawkeye: “Maybe because he knew you’d try, sir.”

Roy Mustang: “What’s that mean?”

Riza Hawkeye: “When those two boys are in harm’s way, sir, well, sometimes you decisions aren’t exactly rational.


SEE?!?! Roy cares about Edward and Alphonse!

Ah, I see the next challenge coming: "WHY AREN'T THERE A LOT OF ROY x AL FIC THEN, HUH?!? YOU PEOPLE JUST WANT TO STICK THE MAIN CHARACTERS TOGETHER!!!!"

Erm... no. Roy x Al just doesn't make sense because Al isn't the one that has to directly report to Mustang, isn't the one who has to take orders from Mustang, and from what I've seen in the Anime, doesn't have nearly as much contact with him as Ed does. Al is always sitting out in the hallway while Ed is screaming about being short in Mustang's office. How the heck can you make a relationship off that? It's as bad as Strongarm & Riza. Because Ed is the main character in the frickin' anime, and he is the one with the state alchemist pocket watch, and he is the one who has to listen to Mustang, it makes more sense that he could build a relationship with Roy.

The last thing I'd like to point out is that in the Roy x Ed fics I've seen, Ed is *NOT* fifteen! I don't even know how you can think that a self-respecting author would write Roy x Ed that young, or even younger. The youngest I've seen Ed in a Roy x Ed relationship is seventeen, and the author was under the impression that Roy was somewhere in his twenties. And it wasn't like Ed just walked up to Mustang and said, "Hey! Let's be boyfriends!" either. The author developed Ed's character a LOT and kept him in character, to get to the yaoi (well she hasn't finished it; it's shounen-ai right now).

I would never read a Roy x Ed fanfic where Ed is fifteen, twelve, etc. It's almost as bas as elricest (which I'm getting to in a minute). I've never come across a Roy x Ed story with him at that age, which says something for the writers that I've read; they know better than that.


A couple royai fans have mentioned this, and I'd like to say the same thing: I support couples that, in my opinion, *work.* Royai works. I just told you reasons why Roy x Ed works.

Havoc & Riza? Meh. Havoc's not even that much of a main character. Anyone who puts Riza with Havoc for the sake of a Roy x Ed relationship prolly doesn't have a good plot/story to begin with.

Ed x Envy: Well, if Roy and Ed banter, why are they a couple and not Envy x Ed? Roy actually cares about Ed; that's the thing. ^_~ I will never understand Ed x Envy. It makes no sense! And for goodness sakes, he's a sin who's in cahoots with someone who's manipulating the poor boy, for cryin' out loud! *_* (Like I said, I've never seen the end of the series; if that had any reason to do with why it works, forgive me. I haven't seen it and I DON'T WANT TO BE TOLD WHAT HAPPENS! *waves arms frantically*)

Elricest: NO NO NO NO NO!!!! *flips out* NO NO NO NO NO!!!!!! I will NEVER, EVERRRRRRRRR read this couple because it's wrong. Plain and simple. Incest is bad, children. It's a morality thing.

Al x Winry: If you're going by the anime, where Ed totally snubs Winry, this makes perfect sense, and that's the context I've seen it in; she cares about both of them very much, but Ed pushes her aside while Al reciprocates her feelings and cares a lot about her. It works!

Roy x Hughes: I've actually never read a fic with this paring, but it could work, if done right. I mean, they are best friends and all, so the relationship has potential to develop into something else.


I'm someone who will consider whether the relationship will *work,* rather than if it's homo or het. And I have plenty of non-hagaren examples, but I don't know if it's pointless or not to post them since obviously not everyone has seen every anime.

In this thread, I'm seeing a lot of incredibly insane royai fans who won't even consider Roy x Ed. And In other places I get the feeling that if you're not an obsessive Roy x Ed fan you don't deserve to be recognize. Both sides represent the extremes, and it's a shame it has to be that way.

I've seen maybe two Royai fans (because I've seen only one Roy x Ed fan who didn't express their opinion on couples in general) in this thread who walk in the middle - and I'm sure you know who you are because you've said it directly. The rest of you are so blinded by your obsession you fail to see anything else - just like the Roy x Ed fans I've told you about - and like I said, it's shame it has to be that way, where the fanworld has boiled down to having Hawkeye and Edward competing for Roy's affection in fanfiction.

I have an awesome one shot fanfic example of Royai's subtlety and deepness. I also have a very well done Roy x Ed (with some Havoc x Fuery, btw) chaptered fic (incomplete but she definitely plans on finishing it), and another Roy x Ed fic with Al x Winry that is a lot darker, very mature, but still done in excellent taste and with excellently done writing. I'm afraid to post any of the links here for fear some of you will totally loose your senses for about five seconds and flame the authors. If you want to get to know the other side of the story (i.e. If you're a royai fan and want to see how roy x ed fans think the way they do, or vice versa), these are the fics I would recommend. You can PM me any time to get the fanfiction.net URLs - I don't bite, I swear! happy.gif


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NightMistress
post Jul 5 2005, 11:39 PM
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Ah so I see there's a fellow mistress of...non-bright things laugh.gif . Welcome tongue.gif !

I just caught ep 25 on CN (always a very hard ep for me). That statement by Hawkeye shows that he cares for both Ed and Al, but not in the "I love you and want a relationship with you" kind of way for either of them (at least I didn't interpret it that way). Roy can be a hardass, but I've always thought that Roy took care of them in his own special way. He seems like more of a brother/father figure than anything else. He is kind of the main authority figure that they have to go on. Having seen what those kids went through (I'm thinking about his first encounter with them as 10-11 year olds who had just went through this traumatic experience), it's hard to not want to be there for them as they find their own way. He just had to take on a more formal role for them because of the circumstances and deal with them in an unorthadox manner.

If EdAl weren't related, I'd be a big fan. Ed loves Al more than anyone in this world and vice versa. They would die for each other without a second thought. You would have to negate the fact that it's platonic though. You'd have to see it as something else, which RoyEd fans practically do with Roy and Ed's relationship. The creators did not make this show to put them together or make it a possibility, and Arakawa (the manga creator) even LESS so. I love HughesRoy (it's more natural than I have found any yaoi pairing in this show) but I realize that it's the same for them too. It's pretty much the dreams of the fangirls. When fans come in and change a character's sexuality and throw together whoever they want to their hearts content (this includes yuri too), it makes them OOC and there's really no way around it no matter how much you think it can work. Actually, there is a potential one-sided yaoi possibility in the show, but I'll let you see that for yourself when you finish the series. I missed it the first time, but caught it later thanks to Omakase (a mod here) telling me to watch the ep again. I need to read some fanfics to see how I'd feel about that pairing though. I already don't mind the idea.

You may or may not be reading a tad too much into AlWin from the anime, but once again, I'll let you catch the rest of it. It's harder than I thought to talk to someone that hasn't read the manga, finished the series or knows about the movie. It's a lot more information. You've got catching up to do, but I promise it'll be fun wink.gif .

The RoyEd fanworks I have seen have Ed as a girl (or looking like one), or Ed looking like his young 15 year old self. I did JUST recently catch an art with a mature Ed (but can't tell you where it's from since it could potentially spoil some stuff) and it FINALLY clicked for me. It was hard NOT to like it. So long as Ed's an adult, it's much better for me (eventhough HughesRoy always will seem more natural and fitting, where yaoi possibilities are concerned).

As another fan that likes Roy with two people (not simultaneously), I can understand the frustration. It's not as easy to come across people that support both of your favorite pairings like you do (though I have suprisingly found a few people like me which makes me very happy). I suppose it's not too bad for me because I will always choose Royai above anything else (since I traditionally tend to go for more canon-like possibilities), but it's still nice to find fans that love and support things that you hold near and dear.


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Automne
post Jul 6 2005, 01:53 AM
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Great arguments! Mistress Of Darkness! You described very well the possibilities of RoyXEd! biggrin.gif I, myself, am a yaoi fan and I was, at first, a fan of RoyXEd and then I saw Riza (And you could say I saw the "light" biggrin.gif ) and I became a fan of Royai! They're such a great pairing! Riza is a strong beautiful character and Roy just NEEDS a girl like this to support him! This is not the so classic pairing: "best friends that fall in love" like the EdWin pairing! But even if now I am a fan of Royai I can't tell that I do not like RoyXEd!

QUOTE
Okay, so anyway, why I like Roy & Ed: I get the feeling that most people here just see their little spats as evidence that it can't happen, but to me, and with the fanfics I see *ON FF.N,* it's always one of the strongest anchoring points for their relationship - the fact that they argue. Someone said that Roy and Riza are practically married in the manga (I'll take their word for it); to fan writers, Roy and Ed act like an old married couple with all the fighting they do.

I know that because they have their little spats, some of you are also trying to use the argument that they "TOTALLY HATE EACH OTHER OMG!!!!" but in fact, they don't. Even I, who is up to like... Episode 26, can tell that Roy is not a heartless bastard and he really cares about Edward. Here's a direct quote from Episode 25, dubbed version (I spent 15 minutes sitting in my room rewinding the tape again and again to get the thing exact - right down to assumed punctuation):


They totally do NOT hate each other for sure! And I should watch this episode! Roy certainly does care for the brothers maybe not in "this" way but he does care for them! Certainly because he met them in this terrible moment of their life and because he knows how great alchemists they are! Well, I don't know but he does care for them!

QUOTE
Ed x Envy: Well, if Roy and Ed banter, why are they a couple and not Envy x Ed? Roy actually cares about Ed; that's the thing. ^_~ I will never understand Ed x Envy. It makes no sense! And for goodness sakes, he's a sin who's in cahoots with someone who's manipulating the poor boy, for cryin' out loud! *_* (Like I said, I've never seen the end of the series; if that had any reason to do with why it works, forgive me. I haven't seen it and I DON'T WANT TO BE TOLD WHAT HAPPENS! *waves arms frantically*)


Well for EdXEnvy it does make sense: Certainly not the all "forbidden love" thing! I just can't picture Envy saying to Ed "I love you! I wanna marry you" laugh.gif Actually Envy hates Ed so much and well I think that the NCS fics make sense actually! I can perfectly see Envy wanting to rape Ed!


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Mistress of Dark...
post Jul 7 2005, 06:21 PM
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NightMistress - ^^ Similar names rock. Thank you for your comments; I'm glad I found someone else who likes Roy x Ed.

I see what you mean by the dialogue in Episode 25; I agree that it doesn't scream "ROYED!!!" or anything. It shows that Roy cares about Ed. In the fan realm, they simply take that further, and create a relationship out of it; that's what I meant. ^^;

I have seen a *lot* of fanart with Ed looking very girly, and for some reason, I don't like them at all (no offense meant if someone here draws that way). Even though Ed can act childish, I do still see him as very stubborn and masculine. I can see how that would be disturbing to you and others.

About Win x Al: Eheh. I guess I'll have to see the series then. ^^;;; *must wait patiently*

I'm have to say that I, too, tend to stick closer to cannon pairings (Royai), just for the sheer fact that, well, they're cannon. *giggles* But yeah, I do like Roy x Ed, too.


SinLuxuria: Thanks for the positive comments. I appreciate them. ^^;

Yeah, I admit that episode 25 shows that Roy cares about Ed, just not in *that* way. It was really an example of the fact that he does care, and isn't a cold hearted jerk. The fans just take his er... caringness of Ed and go a step further with it.

Envy x Ed - eheh. I still just can't picture it. I'm sorry. @_@ *falls over* I guess it's just personal preference or something. Sorry!


Thank you both, to NightMistress and SinLuxuria for your comments. I'm extremely appreciative of them, as well as grateful that you didn't breathe fire on me. ^^


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Kaiko
post Jul 8 2005, 10:04 PM
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I like RoyxRiza! Though it's not exactly shown XDD


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Omakase Shimasu
post Jul 9 2005, 05:58 PM
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A bit OT here, but since it's a popular topic among the masses... (I always hate to be left out. tongue.gif)

I guess I'm one of the few people who don't care much for proof when supporting a couple. Sure, it's always nice to see your characters share more than a couple of seconds of screen-time, but to me it's not a requirement to either ditch or love a couple to death. Sometimes, my reason behind chosing a pairing lies within the challenge and mystery behind it. 'What if's' are a true delight to me. biggrin.gif

In any case. While I like other pairings, I don't see anything particularly wrong with the Riza/Roy pairing. It just doesn't do anything for me. Maybe it's because the mystery behind the paring has already been uncovered, or maybe it's partly because Riza rubs me the wrong way for some reason... Definitely a bit of both now that I think about it. biggrin.gif;; As for overrated/redundancy... yes, but aren't all mainstream pairings? It's all been done to death - originality's just hard to find these days.

Still, I can see why people would go for that particular pairing, the charm this couple possesses. But again, it's not my cup of tea. Happy days to the ones who do. smile.gif

QUOTE(Reika @ Jun 11 2005, 06:25 PM)
What I hate is the fact that most of those alternate couple fans are completely against the cannon couples and even hate us! O.o I don't say all of them, but many of them yes. You are in your right to like a couple, but don't impose your likes over what's evident. Yesterday a friend of mine recieved this review from a Roy/Ed lover in her royai fanfic: "Royed and Royal rules, u die!" etc. Do you find that normal????

Of course, not to start a war here, but the same can be said for all sorts of fans - all shapes and sizes. For example, I'm a big fan of the Ma-kun/Taki couple from Gravitation and have posted a couple of fanfiction centered around this pairing on the Internet. Four of the reviews I acquiered consisted of this one sentence:

QUOTE
TAKI IS A F&*$ING BASTARD! HE F&*$ING <censored for the young ones> SHU-CHAN! HE SHOULD BURN IN HELL!

At first I was amazed at the use of correct grammar since it was the first time I encountered a flame not riddled through with typos. But I digress.

Not the greatest of examples, but I regretfully deleted all anti-yaoi/unconventional pairing flames before I had the sense to copy and paste them in my Hall of Flames document.


@NightMistress: You mentioned me~ biggrin.gif;; I have to admit, I was a bit puzzled over that bit about the potential shonen-ai couple there, but eventually I caught on. I feel so ashamed.


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NightMistress
post Jul 9 2005, 06:07 PM
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QUOTE(Omakase Shimasu @ Jul 9 2005, 08:58 PM)
@NightMistress: You mentioned me~ biggrin.gif;; I have to admit, I was a bit puzzled over that bit about the potential shonen-ai couple there, but eventually I caught on. I feel so ashamed.
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*GASP* ohmy.gif You should be tongue.gif! Still though, better to catch on later than never laugh.gif


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Omakase Shimasu
post Jul 9 2005, 06:13 PM
Post #45


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QUOTE(NightMistress @ Jul 10 2005, 01:07 AM)
QUOTE(Omakase Shimasu @ Jul 9 2005, 08:58 PM)

@NightMistress: You mentioned me~ biggrin.gif;; I have to admit, I was a bit puzzled over that bit about the potential shonen-ai couple there, but eventually I caught on. I feel so ashamed.
[snapback]209025[/snapback]



*GASP* ohmy.gif You should be tongue.gif! Still though, better to catch on later than never laugh.gif
[snapback]209031[/snapback]


Yes, I'm awful - I'm not deserving of the "King of Shonen-ai" title at all. Hmm, I guess that's why it's missing in my signature right now... Oops. biggrin.gif;;

laugh.gif Later than never, indeed. I blame it on the fact I haven't been able to overcome my writer's block enough to resume my story featuring that particular couple. Very annoying.


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