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Evolution? Creation?, What do you believe in?
What do you believe in?
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Total Votes: 207
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RemyLeBeau
post Mar 9 2005, 08:29 AM
Post #1


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I've heard rants and raves about this subject on other forums, so I figured I'd bring the disease here. Please, though:

If you want to argue a point, don't turn this into a flame war. Seriously, just look at philosophy, facts, etc. NOT who has the better insults.

Just to make things clear: I'm for the Creation side of this, and yes I know, there's also an Intelligent Design part arising among scientists. However, I see this as a half-assed attempt to say 'We were created... but not by God.'

I put it in the polls, though, just in case.

So vote, then speak your piece!
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Edited and added poll choices. March 25, 2011. ~Tombow


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Carnal Malefacto...
post Jun 12 2005, 07:32 PM
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QUOTE(arche @ Jun 13 2005, 02:21 AM)
QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 09:59 PM)
Intelligent design is such garbage. If creation is perfect, then explain homosexuality. Explain birth defects. Explain genetic differences.
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I don't think perfection in the sense you describe is necessary. In fact, I don't really know how your criticism effects Intelligent design at all.

Perfection is a value that may or may not be defined in the way you are alluding. Perhaps you should define your concept of perfection first and determine whether that conception is absolute in some way so as to ascribe it to the Intelligent Designer. Then show that if perfection isn't present in the universe then an Intelligent Designer could not have created the universe. This still wouldn't be enough, but at least be a nice start.
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Well, perhaps 'perfect' was the wrong word. But certainly a deity that planned every species to appear and act as they do would not have created such abberations. I have to disclaim that I have nothing at all against homosexuals, but there's no arguing that it's an anomaly for members of any species to not have a natural predisposition to procreate, if it was intended by the designer that all species were meant to 'be fruitful and multiply' ab infinitum.

I'm actually very much open to there having been some sort of original creative spark, so to speak, that was the work of a deity or deities... But again, to claim that we were molded by god to be as we are is vanity and ignorance of the worst kind.

QUOTE(Celestial Fangirl @ Jun 13 2005, 02:26 AM)
Evolution seems possible, but I just don't believe I came from an animal...Not because humans are better than animals, but because I'd like to know why primates are still alive then, if we evolve to survive.
[snapback]190986[/snapback]


Because evolution isn't linear. If you actually read up on the subject, you'd know that.


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post Jun 12 2005, 07:59 PM
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QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 10:32 PM)
Well, perhaps 'perfect' was the wrong word. But certainly a deity that planned every species to appear and act as they do would not have created such abberations.

This may not be possible based on the type of creation provided. These abberations may be part of the value of the design. I think that it may be a distinction between whether the designer is still interactive with the universe or not. If not, then it makes sense that there would be some abberations. Even small variations on any construction design causes some difficulties. So in a sense, it's the difference between theoretical ability for non-abberations and the actual "created" world.

QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 10:32 PM)
But again, to claim that we were molded by god to be as we are is vanity and ignorance of the worst kind.
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I don't see it as ignorance at all. I think that it's ignorant to claim the impossibility of God as a possible Intelligent Designer based on a false sense of "rationality".

Personally I think there's a mexican standoff between the two issues. I don't think that the explanation of evolution has met its requirements fully. The methodology for explanation is not satisfactory for me. I will still say that evolution is probably the best explanation currently available for all the evidence, but the best explanation is not enough to say that it is the correct explanation.

Also, it is rational to think that the world was created all at once by a God or Intelligent Designer. It's just not provable and offers no ability to really test either empirically or logically.

In order to accept any scientific explanation of past events, one must assume that laws and evidence viewed today are the same as in the past. There is still a reasonable possiblility that the laws we hold to today did not exist the way we think they did in the past. It's not even observable to test this, but simply assumed. One could say that it's ignorance to just assume such things and vanity to believe that we can just assume such things.

I would argue that what you believe as "rational" is not necessarily as rational as you think and offers no ability to make polar statements against Intelligent Design. I'm not saying that scientific thought is inappropriate, but I am saying that it is not able to fully determine metaphysics (or at least it's a different argument). Just because there is evolution doesn't mean that Intelligent Design is eliminated or irrational.


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Posts in this topic
- RemyLeBeau   Evolution? Creation?   Mar 9 2005, 08:29 AM
- - Chiyo   I believe in evolution. Facts and figures will alw...   Mar 9 2005, 09:48 AM
- - mistress_aya   Creation, always have, and always will believe in ...   Mar 9 2005, 10:26 AM
- - What, no bacon?   "Evidence of Creationism", eh? This, I...   Mar 9 2005, 12:29 PM
|- - POTOPHREAK   I was about to choose Creation until I saw... ...   Jun 10 2005, 02:19 AM
- - Xithion   I think they meant Jesus or God rather. Because Je...   Mar 9 2005, 01:08 PM
- - Blackwings   I dont know what i belive they all sound gibberish...   Mar 9 2005, 05:16 PM
- - RemyLeBeau   Okay, it's about time I started talking again....   Mar 9 2005, 06:48 PM
- - Quistis88   Spam posts deleted.   Mar 9 2005, 06:52 PM
- - What, no bacon?   I wish I had the energy to debunk the supposed ...   Mar 9 2005, 07:02 PM
|- - definingmind   Yes, I am willing to tell you that I believe that ...   Mar 9 2005, 08:23 PM
- - Falling_Man   How contreversial. Interesting. I'm a creatio...   Mar 9 2005, 07:13 PM
- - Bling_bling_Angel   *covers eyes* Homeboy, you realize the crapstorm ...   Mar 9 2005, 08:37 PM
- - Guest   What really is the point of arguing over this thin...   Mar 9 2005, 09:33 PM
|- - Quistis88   If you're too open-minded, your brains will fa...   Mar 9 2005, 09:36 PM
|- - Falling_Man   QUOTE(Guest @ Mar 9 2005, 11:33 PM)What reall...   Mar 10 2005, 07:12 PM
- - Bling_bling_Angel   "For those who believe, no explanation is nec...   Mar 9 2005, 09:38 PM
- - Chiyo   I suppose suggesting that we evolved rather than c...   Mar 10 2005, 07:01 AM
- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 9 2005, 02:29 PM)...   Mar 10 2005, 09:50 AM
- - Prinz_Zoisit   i chose a "creation" which could harmoni...   Mar 10 2005, 10:46 AM
- - definingmind   Prinz, just wondering, but have you read through t...   Mar 10 2005, 11:05 AM
|- - Prinz_Zoisit   QUOTE(definingmind @ Mar 10 2005, 07:05 PM)Ge...   Mar 10 2005, 01:28 PM
- - arche   I'm immensely rusty with my Pentateauch exeges...   Mar 10 2005, 11:48 AM
- - What, no bacon?   You know what? With regards to the origin of man, ...   Mar 10 2005, 12:33 PM
|- - definingmind   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 12:33 PM...   Mar 10 2005, 01:23 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(definingmind @ Mar 10 2005, 08:23 PM)QU...   Mar 10 2005, 02:11 PM
- - arche   Who created the extra-terrestrials??   Mar 10 2005, 01:02 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(arche @ Mar 10 2005, 08:02 PM)Who creat...   Mar 10 2005, 01:06 PM
- - Fayt   If you're a christian then you will know who r...   Mar 10 2005, 01:14 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Fayt @ Mar 10 2005, 08:14 PM)If you...   Mar 10 2005, 01:17 PM
- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 12:33 PM...   Mar 10 2005, 02:58 PM
- - Username05   I belive in Creation. My grandfather was a preach...   Mar 10 2005, 03:28 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 10 2005, 10:28 PM) I h...   Mar 10 2005, 05:19 PM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 07:19 PM...   Mar 10 2005, 05:37 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(arche @ Mar 11 2005, 12:37 AM)QUOTE(Wha...   Mar 10 2005, 05:43 PM
- - What, no bacon?   It would literally take an act of god to get me to...   Mar 10 2005, 07:14 PM
- - gundamjcr   i believe that its a mixture of evulution and crea...   Mar 10 2005, 10:24 PM
- - Bling_bling_Angel   Actually, guys, it's all very simple... you...   Mar 10 2005, 11:27 PM
|- - DarkWater Alchemist   QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Mar 11 2005, 07:27 ...   Mar 11 2005, 02:11 AM
|- - Prinz_Zoisit   QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Mar 11 2005, 07:27 ...   Mar 11 2005, 02:22 PM
- - le monkey   Evolution... In my opinion the bible or any other...   Mar 11 2005, 02:15 AM
- - arche   QUOTE(DarkWater Alchemist @ Mar 11 2005, 04:1...   Mar 11 2005, 05:59 AM
- - Raven   Even though I said evolution, I think it's sor...   Mar 11 2005, 07:26 AM
- - What, no bacon?   The idea that mankind was 'designed' to be...   Mar 11 2005, 12:45 PM
|- - Falling_Man   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 11 2005, 02:45 PM...   Mar 11 2005, 09:33 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Falling_Man @ Mar 12 2005, 04:33 AM)QUO...   Mar 12 2005, 09:28 AM
- - RemyLeBeau   Okay, sorry - I neglected this thread for too long...   Mar 11 2005, 02:57 PM
- - arche   Interesting thought: Every once in a while - thous...   Mar 11 2005, 09:11 PM
- - Reluna   I voted for the last one because I believe we were...   Mar 11 2005, 09:22 PM
- - Xithion   @Falling - Very nicely put! @Arche - Wouldnt ...   Mar 12 2005, 01:51 AM
- - Prinz_Zoisit   wow, remy.. your statement is very impressing.. i...   Mar 12 2005, 03:06 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 05:19 PM...   Mar 12 2005, 09:12 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 04:12 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 09:44 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 09:44 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 09:50 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 04:50 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:05 AM
- - RemyLeBeau   QUOTE(Prinz_Zoisit @ Mar 12 2005, 05:06 AM)wo...   Mar 12 2005, 09:57 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(RemyLeBeau @ Mar 12 2005, 04:57 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:10 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 10:05 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 10:14 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:14 PM)But ...   Mar 12 2005, 10:20 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 10:20 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 10:34 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:34 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:42 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 10:42 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 10:50 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:50 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:52 AM
- - Username05   ^Do you have proof of this?   Mar 12 2005, 10:55 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:55 PM)^Do ...   Mar 12 2005, 11:03 AM
- - Username05   Ok, I have been proven wrong, but that happends al...   Mar 12 2005, 11:15 AM
- - What, no bacon?   The question is, why? I know that a lot of people ...   Mar 12 2005, 11:18 AM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 01:18 PM...   Mar 12 2005, 11:42 AM
- - Username05   Because there is history in creation. There are pl...   Mar 12 2005, 11:35 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 06:35 PM)Beca...   Mar 12 2005, 11:36 AM
- - Username05   Just ask yourself, "Was somebody there?...   Mar 12 2005, 11:49 AM
- - What, no bacon?   I'm getting the impression that the people arg...   Mar 12 2005, 01:54 PM
- - RemyLeBeau   What, No Bacon? I can't see how you feel just...   Mar 12 2005, 05:55 PM
- - What, no bacon?   The albino thing is common sense. Albinism is rare...   Mar 12 2005, 06:21 PM
- - arche   This is getting a bit more off point at times. As ...   Mar 12 2005, 06:53 PM
- - What, no bacon?   Trying to build an argument for Creationism on a s...   Mar 12 2005, 07:28 PM
- - RemyLeBeau   You know, Bacon, more and more I want to punch tha...   Mar 13 2005, 09:45 AM
- - BiteSize   We didn't evolve from monkeys, they share a co...   Mar 13 2005, 07:03 PM
- - le monkey   wow.. There is even stuff in there I didnt know.....   Mar 14 2005, 04:28 AM
- - Chiyo   This is certainly becoming a very deep arguement, ...   Mar 14 2005, 05:28 AM
|- - arche   QUOTE(Chiyo @ Mar 14 2005, 07:28 AM)This is c...   Mar 14 2005, 05:32 AM
- - Chiyo   I didn't mean quite like that sorry. What I me...   Mar 14 2005, 05:38 AM
- - le monkey   Nice ideas.. I like to belive that I am master of ...   Mar 14 2005, 06:11 AM
- - RemyLeBeau   Okay, I know I double posted, but the damn thing w...   Mar 14 2005, 08:25 AM
- - edsgirl   First of all for you who don't know, I'm N...   Mar 14 2005, 11:13 AM
- - FMA JPD   Creation...I'm a Christian   Jun 9 2005, 01:37 PM
- - «°~Envy™~°»   not going to bother reading all 3 pages just going...   Jun 9 2005, 03:59 PM
- - RobinArendt   -   Jun 12 2005, 12:36 PM
- - mongooseboi   im not religous, so i believe what they tell us in...   Jun 12 2005, 12:38 PM
- - Scar-San   your choices are pointless There is a Evolution f...   Jun 12 2005, 01:48 PM
- - majic_lights   I'm christian so i believe in Creation. Yes, i...   Jun 12 2005, 02:30 PM
- - NightMistress   I am agnostic. I believe in evolution, but I think...   Jun 12 2005, 05:29 PM
- - What, no bacon?   Intelligent design is such garbage. If creation is...   Jun 12 2005, 06:59 PM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 09:59 PM...   Jun 12 2005, 07:21 PM
- - Celestial Fangirl   I'm a Christian and I believe in Creation. E...   Jun 12 2005, 07:26 PM
- - Celestial Fangirl   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 10:33 PM...   Jun 12 2005, 08:02 PM
- - arche   BTW: the issues I bring up are very simply outline...   Jun 12 2005, 08:07 PM
- - Scar-San   İm muslim and believe God We are changing wi...   Jun 13 2005, 05:32 AM
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