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Evolution? Creation?, What do you believe in?
What do you believe in?
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Total Votes: 207
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RemyLeBeau
post Mar 9 2005, 08:29 AM
Post #1


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I've heard rants and raves about this subject on other forums, so I figured I'd bring the disease here. Please, though:

If you want to argue a point, don't turn this into a flame war. Seriously, just look at philosophy, facts, etc. NOT who has the better insults.

Just to make things clear: I'm for the Creation side of this, and yes I know, there's also an Intelligent Design part arising among scientists. However, I see this as a half-assed attempt to say 'We were created... but not by God.'

I put it in the polls, though, just in case.

So vote, then speak your piece!
laugh.gif


Edited and added poll choices. March 25, 2011. ~Tombow


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RemyLeBeau
post Mar 14 2005, 08:25 AM
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Okay, I know I double posted, but the damn thing won't let me edit the first post - so if any Mod happens to see this, please delete the above post.

Now, getting back to what I was talking about:

When you mentioned that changes between species happen over a long period of time, that doesn't add up. You see, mutations are almost always harmful (I think only two beneficial mutations have been recorded in known history - Sickle-Cell Anemia and something else.)

QUOTE
*Julian Huxley, the leading evolutionary spokesman of mid-twentieth century, said it would take 103000 changes to produce just one horse by evolution. That is 1 with 3000 zeros after it! (*Julian Huxley, Evolution in Action, p. 46).


I also point to carcinogens. Carcinogens are extremely harmful products usually created by humans that can cause cancer in other organisms. The interesting thing is this: They do so by interfering with the way DNA replicates, creating massive mutations. If mutations were beneficial, don't you think evolutionists would be lobbying for more of these elements in nature. Why, then, are we avoiding them like the plague? Because they cause cancer, a disease.

There is also another way to mutate yourself: Radiation. Why, then, don't people go running to the nearest nuclear plant and roll in the radioactive byproducts? Because all you will get is cancer, leiukemia, (I hope I spelled that right) and other 'evolutionary advances'. Strange, because if mutations are beneficial in any way, why aren't there better and better animals springing out of Three Mile Island, the nuclear tests around the Bikini islands, and such?

BECUASE MUTATIONS ARE ONLY HARMFUL. You can compare mutation to opening up your operating system's source code, and then deleting three letters. Just three letters, no more. Then replace them with "Z X B". Will your computer still run? Not correctly. And there is absolutely NO chance of your computer running faster than before.

The only way humans have not been wiped from the earth by genetic load (The accumulation of mildly harmful or dormant mutations in the genome.) is that our body adapts! When you get cancer, you will be given chemotherapy. The reason chemotherapy works is NOT because it kills the cancer, it's because it mutates the ends of your telomeres, (The 'head' and 'tail' of DNA) making the mutation obvious to your immune system, which then proceeds to kill it.

So - in conclusion, Mutations are not beneficial, they are only harmful. I remember mentioning Sickle-Cell Anemia, the one 'beneficial' mutation? I correct myself. That is not a beneficial mutation, it's anemia. Anemia is when your blood cells cannot get enough oxygen to the body - the byproduct of this is that Malaria spores cannot germinate on the mutated blood cells. However, that malaria-immune person also tires more easily, can't work as hard, and gets out of breath faster than normal people. If that's beneficial, please tell me how.


And another thing: You mentioned snowflakes as how order can arise out of chaos. Not true. Snowflakes do have order to them, but they get this ordered structure by using the kinetic energy in a snowstorm. If it happened otherwise, it would be in violation of the Law of Entropy.


And finally: someone mentioned before how the appendix and other organs are useless. Not true. The appendix is like a holding cell for infectious organisms: The immune system takes them there and kills them. Please explain how this could have evolved. If the immune system just 'evolved' the instructions to bring all infectious agents to the appendix, it would be quite useless without an appendix, wouldn't it?
And the reason blood vessels cross inside your eye is obvious: If they were behind your eye, then the shearing motion made when you look in different directions would constantly pull and tear at the vessels until they either toughened and you couldn't move your eyes, or they would break open and bleed into your eye itself. Sounds a lot better than what we have now, doesn't it?

And please explain how some of the simplest organisms could have evolved: Protists. A euglena uses a whiplike tail to propel itself through the water. Tell me, if you were in a pool and all you had was an Indiana Jones whip, could you move very fast? No, not really. However, these mindless little creatures do it every day. In fact, taxonomy shows that they don't just whip the little tail around, they actually spin it with a biological equivalent of an outboard motor! Now, please tell me this could have 'evolved' by chance: Without the flagella, the biological rotor would be useless, without the rotor, the flagella would be useless. Either way, the organism is eaten and it's an evolutionary dead end.
Ah, but you say, what if they both happened at once? Then it would fit and I can keep my theory. Well, people extrapolated that as well, and came up with Interrupted-Something Evolution. Their theory, in a nutshell, is that the first bird just popped out of a dinosaur egg, conpletely formed and everything. Sound plausible? No? This is just an example of how desperate evolutionary scientists are to keep their theory.

And another thing I want to point out: You proclaim yourself to be a scientific-thinking person, but yet everything you do is done TO PROVE a theory. A true scientific experiment makes a theory, then tries everything it can to disprove the theory. Instead, evolutionists came up with a theory and started amassing all the evidence they could find for it. Doesn't sound very scientific to me.


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Posts in this topic
- RemyLeBeau   Evolution? Creation?   Mar 9 2005, 08:29 AM
- - Chiyo   I believe in evolution. Facts and figures will alw...   Mar 9 2005, 09:48 AM
- - mistress_aya   Creation, always have, and always will believe in ...   Mar 9 2005, 10:26 AM
- - What, no bacon?   "Evidence of Creationism", eh? This, I...   Mar 9 2005, 12:29 PM
|- - POTOPHREAK   I was about to choose Creation until I saw... ...   Jun 10 2005, 02:19 AM
- - Xithion   I think they meant Jesus or God rather. Because Je...   Mar 9 2005, 01:08 PM
- - Blackwings   I dont know what i belive they all sound gibberish...   Mar 9 2005, 05:16 PM
- - RemyLeBeau   Okay, it's about time I started talking again....   Mar 9 2005, 06:48 PM
- - Quistis88   Spam posts deleted.   Mar 9 2005, 06:52 PM
- - What, no bacon?   I wish I had the energy to debunk the supposed ...   Mar 9 2005, 07:02 PM
|- - definingmind   Yes, I am willing to tell you that I believe that ...   Mar 9 2005, 08:23 PM
- - Falling_Man   How contreversial. Interesting. I'm a creatio...   Mar 9 2005, 07:13 PM
- - Bling_bling_Angel   *covers eyes* Homeboy, you realize the crapstorm ...   Mar 9 2005, 08:37 PM
- - Guest   What really is the point of arguing over this thin...   Mar 9 2005, 09:33 PM
|- - Quistis88   If you're too open-minded, your brains will fa...   Mar 9 2005, 09:36 PM
|- - Falling_Man   QUOTE(Guest @ Mar 9 2005, 11:33 PM)What reall...   Mar 10 2005, 07:12 PM
- - Bling_bling_Angel   "For those who believe, no explanation is nec...   Mar 9 2005, 09:38 PM
- - Chiyo   I suppose suggesting that we evolved rather than c...   Mar 10 2005, 07:01 AM
- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 9 2005, 02:29 PM)...   Mar 10 2005, 09:50 AM
- - Prinz_Zoisit   i chose a "creation" which could harmoni...   Mar 10 2005, 10:46 AM
- - definingmind   Prinz, just wondering, but have you read through t...   Mar 10 2005, 11:05 AM
|- - Prinz_Zoisit   QUOTE(definingmind @ Mar 10 2005, 07:05 PM)Ge...   Mar 10 2005, 01:28 PM
- - arche   I'm immensely rusty with my Pentateauch exeges...   Mar 10 2005, 11:48 AM
- - What, no bacon?   You know what? With regards to the origin of man, ...   Mar 10 2005, 12:33 PM
|- - definingmind   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 12:33 PM...   Mar 10 2005, 01:23 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(definingmind @ Mar 10 2005, 08:23 PM)QU...   Mar 10 2005, 02:11 PM
- - arche   Who created the extra-terrestrials??   Mar 10 2005, 01:02 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(arche @ Mar 10 2005, 08:02 PM)Who creat...   Mar 10 2005, 01:06 PM
- - Fayt   If you're a christian then you will know who r...   Mar 10 2005, 01:14 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Fayt @ Mar 10 2005, 08:14 PM)If you...   Mar 10 2005, 01:17 PM
- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 12:33 PM...   Mar 10 2005, 02:58 PM
- - Username05   I belive in Creation. My grandfather was a preach...   Mar 10 2005, 03:28 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 10 2005, 10:28 PM) I h...   Mar 10 2005, 05:19 PM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 07:19 PM...   Mar 10 2005, 05:37 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(arche @ Mar 11 2005, 12:37 AM)QUOTE(Wha...   Mar 10 2005, 05:43 PM
- - What, no bacon?   It would literally take an act of god to get me to...   Mar 10 2005, 07:14 PM
- - gundamjcr   i believe that its a mixture of evulution and crea...   Mar 10 2005, 10:24 PM
- - Bling_bling_Angel   Actually, guys, it's all very simple... you...   Mar 10 2005, 11:27 PM
|- - DarkWater Alchemist   QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Mar 11 2005, 07:27 ...   Mar 11 2005, 02:11 AM
|- - Prinz_Zoisit   QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Mar 11 2005, 07:27 ...   Mar 11 2005, 02:22 PM
- - le monkey   Evolution... In my opinion the bible or any other...   Mar 11 2005, 02:15 AM
- - arche   QUOTE(DarkWater Alchemist @ Mar 11 2005, 04:1...   Mar 11 2005, 05:59 AM
- - Raven   Even though I said evolution, I think it's sor...   Mar 11 2005, 07:26 AM
- - What, no bacon?   The idea that mankind was 'designed' to be...   Mar 11 2005, 12:45 PM
|- - Falling_Man   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 11 2005, 02:45 PM...   Mar 11 2005, 09:33 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Falling_Man @ Mar 12 2005, 04:33 AM)QUO...   Mar 12 2005, 09:28 AM
- - RemyLeBeau   Okay, sorry - I neglected this thread for too long...   Mar 11 2005, 02:57 PM
- - arche   Interesting thought: Every once in a while - thous...   Mar 11 2005, 09:11 PM
- - Reluna   I voted for the last one because I believe we were...   Mar 11 2005, 09:22 PM
- - Xithion   @Falling - Very nicely put! @Arche - Wouldnt ...   Mar 12 2005, 01:51 AM
- - Prinz_Zoisit   wow, remy.. your statement is very impressing.. i...   Mar 12 2005, 03:06 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 05:19 PM...   Mar 12 2005, 09:12 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 04:12 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 09:44 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 09:44 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 09:50 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 04:50 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:05 AM
- - RemyLeBeau   QUOTE(Prinz_Zoisit @ Mar 12 2005, 05:06 AM)wo...   Mar 12 2005, 09:57 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(RemyLeBeau @ Mar 12 2005, 04:57 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:10 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 10:05 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 10:14 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:14 PM)But ...   Mar 12 2005, 10:20 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 10:20 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 10:34 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:34 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:42 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 10:42 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 10:50 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:50 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:52 AM
- - Username05   ^Do you have proof of this?   Mar 12 2005, 10:55 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:55 PM)^Do ...   Mar 12 2005, 11:03 AM
- - Username05   Ok, I have been proven wrong, but that happends al...   Mar 12 2005, 11:15 AM
- - What, no bacon?   The question is, why? I know that a lot of people ...   Mar 12 2005, 11:18 AM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 01:18 PM...   Mar 12 2005, 11:42 AM
- - Username05   Because there is history in creation. There are pl...   Mar 12 2005, 11:35 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 06:35 PM)Beca...   Mar 12 2005, 11:36 AM
- - Username05   Just ask yourself, "Was somebody there?...   Mar 12 2005, 11:49 AM
- - What, no bacon?   I'm getting the impression that the people arg...   Mar 12 2005, 01:54 PM
- - RemyLeBeau   What, No Bacon? I can't see how you feel just...   Mar 12 2005, 05:55 PM
- - What, no bacon?   The albino thing is common sense. Albinism is rare...   Mar 12 2005, 06:21 PM
- - arche   This is getting a bit more off point at times. As ...   Mar 12 2005, 06:53 PM
- - What, no bacon?   Trying to build an argument for Creationism on a s...   Mar 12 2005, 07:28 PM
- - RemyLeBeau   You know, Bacon, more and more I want to punch tha...   Mar 13 2005, 09:45 AM
- - BiteSize   We didn't evolve from monkeys, they share a co...   Mar 13 2005, 07:03 PM
- - le monkey   wow.. There is even stuff in there I didnt know.....   Mar 14 2005, 04:28 AM
- - Chiyo   This is certainly becoming a very deep arguement, ...   Mar 14 2005, 05:28 AM
|- - arche   QUOTE(Chiyo @ Mar 14 2005, 07:28 AM)This is c...   Mar 14 2005, 05:32 AM
- - Chiyo   I didn't mean quite like that sorry. What I me...   Mar 14 2005, 05:38 AM
- - le monkey   Nice ideas.. I like to belive that I am master of ...   Mar 14 2005, 06:11 AM
- - edsgirl   First of all for you who don't know, I'm N...   Mar 14 2005, 11:13 AM
- - FMA JPD   Creation...I'm a Christian   Jun 9 2005, 01:37 PM
- - «°~Envy™~°»   not going to bother reading all 3 pages just going...   Jun 9 2005, 03:59 PM
- - RobinArendt   -   Jun 12 2005, 12:36 PM
- - mongooseboi   im not religous, so i believe what they tell us in...   Jun 12 2005, 12:38 PM
- - Scar-San   your choices are pointless There is a Evolution f...   Jun 12 2005, 01:48 PM
- - majic_lights   I'm christian so i believe in Creation. Yes, i...   Jun 12 2005, 02:30 PM
- - NightMistress   I am agnostic. I believe in evolution, but I think...   Jun 12 2005, 05:29 PM
- - What, no bacon?   Intelligent design is such garbage. If creation is...   Jun 12 2005, 06:59 PM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 09:59 PM...   Jun 12 2005, 07:21 PM
- - Celestial Fangirl   I'm a Christian and I believe in Creation. E...   Jun 12 2005, 07:26 PM
- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(arche @ Jun 13 2005, 02:21 AM)QUOTE(Wha...   Jun 12 2005, 07:32 PM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 10:32 PM...   Jun 12 2005, 07:59 PM
- - Celestial Fangirl   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 10:33 PM...   Jun 12 2005, 08:02 PM
- - arche   BTW: the issues I bring up are very simply outline...   Jun 12 2005, 08:07 PM
- - Scar-San   İm muslim and believe God We are changing wi...   Jun 13 2005, 05:32 AM
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