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Evolution? Creation?, What do you believe in?
What do you believe in?
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Total Votes: 207
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RemyLeBeau
post Mar 9 2005, 08:29 AM
Post #1


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I've heard rants and raves about this subject on other forums, so I figured I'd bring the disease here. Please, though:

If you want to argue a point, don't turn this into a flame war. Seriously, just look at philosophy, facts, etc. NOT who has the better insults.

Just to make things clear: I'm for the Creation side of this, and yes I know, there's also an Intelligent Design part arising among scientists. However, I see this as a half-assed attempt to say 'We were created... but not by God.'

I put it in the polls, though, just in case.

So vote, then speak your piece!
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Edited and added poll choices. March 25, 2011. ~Tombow


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RemyLeBeau
post Mar 11 2005, 02:57 PM
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Okay, sorry - I neglected this thread for too long. I an no good at arguing spiritual stuff, I believe what I believe because I want to be sure I'm good when I die. (Like insurance)

What I CAN do is illustrate that evolution isn't just shaky, it can't happen. There is no physical way. I'll illustrate:

Numbah One:

The Big Bang was supposed to create mostly hydrogen and helium, which is a lot different than what we have in the universe today. How did we get all the heavier elements? Evolutionists theorized that stars became supernovas, and through the fusion processes involved created the rest of the periodic table.
PROBLEM. The fusion involved can turn Hydrogen into Helium, then Helium into Deuterium, (An isotope of Hydrogen) but after that there is a gap. It's called the 'mass gap' because there is no stable atom with a mass of 4. No amount of fusion can bridge this. Instead what happens is this: The Deuterium becomes an unstable isotope, then breaking down into Hydrogen again. No Fe, no Si, just H and He. People have theorized that small amounts of heavy elements might have been created, but it is far too small (Around 20 moles per supernova, roughly 1/100 of a gram) for there to be enough junk there is now.

Numbah Two:

Assuming that somehow enough heavy elements were created to form the Earth, etc. then comes the problem of the first life created. Just a little Chemistry here: A protein in made up of a long chain of amino acids, sometimes up to 100 long. Each amino acid must be in the right place, no errors, to create the right protein. There are about 16 different amino acids that I know of, and hundreds of different proteins needed for life.
Amino acids are then composed of about twenty atoms, some combination of carbon, oxygen, and other biological chemicals. (I'm dumb, I forgot my Chemistry class. huh.gif)
Anyway, the Miller apparatus was supposed to prove that amino acids could be created in the primitive environment, using a steady DC current to symbolize lightning, the destructive force that carries thousands of volts, not just a little zap.
ANYWAY, then the apparatus had an atmosphere of carbon monoxide, ammonia, and nitrogen. The first two are poisonous to all life, and need I point out that there is no OXYGEN? Where did it come from?
Finally, I just want to point out that you need:
Up to 100 amino acids per protein, all in the right order, quantity, and ratios
Hundreds of thousands of proteins, all the right kinds and quantities.
All these must be made in the same general area.
Then these proteins must form together into the semi-complex organs of a cell.

Last thing: The law of mass action.
When these proteins, amino acids, and other junk are forming, they would be in a liquid or the Miller apparatus would not apply. Anyway, the Law of Mass Action states that chemicals under the effect of Brownian Motion (In a thin liquid like water) will quickly decompose.

So not only must all this happen, it must happen within the span of minutes. Hmm...
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Posts in this topic
- RemyLeBeau   Evolution? Creation?   Mar 9 2005, 08:29 AM
- - Chiyo   I believe in evolution. Facts and figures will alw...   Mar 9 2005, 09:48 AM
- - mistress_aya   Creation, always have, and always will believe in ...   Mar 9 2005, 10:26 AM
- - What, no bacon?   "Evidence of Creationism", eh? This, I...   Mar 9 2005, 12:29 PM
|- - POTOPHREAK   I was about to choose Creation until I saw... ...   Jun 10 2005, 02:19 AM
- - Xithion   I think they meant Jesus or God rather. Because Je...   Mar 9 2005, 01:08 PM
- - Blackwings   I dont know what i belive they all sound gibberish...   Mar 9 2005, 05:16 PM
- - RemyLeBeau   Okay, it's about time I started talking again....   Mar 9 2005, 06:48 PM
- - Quistis88   Spam posts deleted.   Mar 9 2005, 06:52 PM
- - What, no bacon?   I wish I had the energy to debunk the supposed ...   Mar 9 2005, 07:02 PM
|- - definingmind   Yes, I am willing to tell you that I believe that ...   Mar 9 2005, 08:23 PM
- - Falling_Man   How contreversial. Interesting. I'm a creatio...   Mar 9 2005, 07:13 PM
- - Bling_bling_Angel   *covers eyes* Homeboy, you realize the crapstorm ...   Mar 9 2005, 08:37 PM
- - Guest   What really is the point of arguing over this thin...   Mar 9 2005, 09:33 PM
|- - Quistis88   If you're too open-minded, your brains will fa...   Mar 9 2005, 09:36 PM
|- - Falling_Man   QUOTE(Guest @ Mar 9 2005, 11:33 PM)What reall...   Mar 10 2005, 07:12 PM
- - Bling_bling_Angel   "For those who believe, no explanation is nec...   Mar 9 2005, 09:38 PM
- - Chiyo   I suppose suggesting that we evolved rather than c...   Mar 10 2005, 07:01 AM
- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 9 2005, 02:29 PM)...   Mar 10 2005, 09:50 AM
- - Prinz_Zoisit   i chose a "creation" which could harmoni...   Mar 10 2005, 10:46 AM
- - definingmind   Prinz, just wondering, but have you read through t...   Mar 10 2005, 11:05 AM
|- - Prinz_Zoisit   QUOTE(definingmind @ Mar 10 2005, 07:05 PM)Ge...   Mar 10 2005, 01:28 PM
- - arche   I'm immensely rusty with my Pentateauch exeges...   Mar 10 2005, 11:48 AM
- - What, no bacon?   You know what? With regards to the origin of man, ...   Mar 10 2005, 12:33 PM
|- - definingmind   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 12:33 PM...   Mar 10 2005, 01:23 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(definingmind @ Mar 10 2005, 08:23 PM)QU...   Mar 10 2005, 02:11 PM
- - arche   Who created the extra-terrestrials??   Mar 10 2005, 01:02 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(arche @ Mar 10 2005, 08:02 PM)Who creat...   Mar 10 2005, 01:06 PM
- - Fayt   If you're a christian then you will know who r...   Mar 10 2005, 01:14 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Fayt @ Mar 10 2005, 08:14 PM)If you...   Mar 10 2005, 01:17 PM
- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 12:33 PM...   Mar 10 2005, 02:58 PM
- - Username05   I belive in Creation. My grandfather was a preach...   Mar 10 2005, 03:28 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 10 2005, 10:28 PM) I h...   Mar 10 2005, 05:19 PM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 07:19 PM...   Mar 10 2005, 05:37 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(arche @ Mar 11 2005, 12:37 AM)QUOTE(Wha...   Mar 10 2005, 05:43 PM
- - What, no bacon?   It would literally take an act of god to get me to...   Mar 10 2005, 07:14 PM
- - gundamjcr   i believe that its a mixture of evulution and crea...   Mar 10 2005, 10:24 PM
- - Bling_bling_Angel   Actually, guys, it's all very simple... you...   Mar 10 2005, 11:27 PM
|- - DarkWater Alchemist   QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Mar 11 2005, 07:27 ...   Mar 11 2005, 02:11 AM
|- - Prinz_Zoisit   QUOTE(Bling_bling_Angel @ Mar 11 2005, 07:27 ...   Mar 11 2005, 02:22 PM
- - le monkey   Evolution... In my opinion the bible or any other...   Mar 11 2005, 02:15 AM
- - arche   QUOTE(DarkWater Alchemist @ Mar 11 2005, 04:1...   Mar 11 2005, 05:59 AM
- - Raven   Even though I said evolution, I think it's sor...   Mar 11 2005, 07:26 AM
- - What, no bacon?   The idea that mankind was 'designed' to be...   Mar 11 2005, 12:45 PM
|- - Falling_Man   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 11 2005, 02:45 PM...   Mar 11 2005, 09:33 PM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Falling_Man @ Mar 12 2005, 04:33 AM)QUO...   Mar 12 2005, 09:28 AM
- - arche   Interesting thought: Every once in a while - thous...   Mar 11 2005, 09:11 PM
- - Reluna   I voted for the last one because I believe we were...   Mar 11 2005, 09:22 PM
- - Xithion   @Falling - Very nicely put! @Arche - Wouldnt ...   Mar 12 2005, 01:51 AM
- - Prinz_Zoisit   wow, remy.. your statement is very impressing.. i...   Mar 12 2005, 03:06 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 10 2005, 05:19 PM...   Mar 12 2005, 09:12 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 04:12 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 09:44 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 09:44 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 09:50 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 04:50 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:05 AM
- - RemyLeBeau   QUOTE(Prinz_Zoisit @ Mar 12 2005, 05:06 AM)wo...   Mar 12 2005, 09:57 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(RemyLeBeau @ Mar 12 2005, 04:57 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:10 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 10:05 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 10:14 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:14 PM)But ...   Mar 12 2005, 10:20 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 10:20 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 10:34 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:34 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:42 AM
- - Username05   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 10:42 AM...   Mar 12 2005, 10:50 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:50 PM)QUOT...   Mar 12 2005, 10:52 AM
- - Username05   ^Do you have proof of this?   Mar 12 2005, 10:55 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 05:55 PM)^Do ...   Mar 12 2005, 11:03 AM
- - Username05   Ok, I have been proven wrong, but that happends al...   Mar 12 2005, 11:15 AM
- - What, no bacon?   The question is, why? I know that a lot of people ...   Mar 12 2005, 11:18 AM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Mar 12 2005, 01:18 PM...   Mar 12 2005, 11:42 AM
- - Username05   Because there is history in creation. There are pl...   Mar 12 2005, 11:35 AM
|- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(Username05 @ Mar 12 2005, 06:35 PM)Beca...   Mar 12 2005, 11:36 AM
- - Username05   Just ask yourself, "Was somebody there?...   Mar 12 2005, 11:49 AM
- - What, no bacon?   I'm getting the impression that the people arg...   Mar 12 2005, 01:54 PM
- - RemyLeBeau   What, No Bacon? I can't see how you feel just...   Mar 12 2005, 05:55 PM
- - What, no bacon?   The albino thing is common sense. Albinism is rare...   Mar 12 2005, 06:21 PM
- - arche   This is getting a bit more off point at times. As ...   Mar 12 2005, 06:53 PM
- - What, no bacon?   Trying to build an argument for Creationism on a s...   Mar 12 2005, 07:28 PM
- - RemyLeBeau   You know, Bacon, more and more I want to punch tha...   Mar 13 2005, 09:45 AM
- - BiteSize   We didn't evolve from monkeys, they share a co...   Mar 13 2005, 07:03 PM
- - le monkey   wow.. There is even stuff in there I didnt know.....   Mar 14 2005, 04:28 AM
- - Chiyo   This is certainly becoming a very deep arguement, ...   Mar 14 2005, 05:28 AM
|- - arche   QUOTE(Chiyo @ Mar 14 2005, 07:28 AM)This is c...   Mar 14 2005, 05:32 AM
- - Chiyo   I didn't mean quite like that sorry. What I me...   Mar 14 2005, 05:38 AM
- - le monkey   Nice ideas.. I like to belive that I am master of ...   Mar 14 2005, 06:11 AM
- - RemyLeBeau   Okay, I know I double posted, but the damn thing w...   Mar 14 2005, 08:25 AM
- - edsgirl   First of all for you who don't know, I'm N...   Mar 14 2005, 11:13 AM
- - FMA JPD   Creation...I'm a Christian   Jun 9 2005, 01:37 PM
- - «°~Envy™~°»   not going to bother reading all 3 pages just going...   Jun 9 2005, 03:59 PM
- - RobinArendt   -   Jun 12 2005, 12:36 PM
- - mongooseboi   im not religous, so i believe what they tell us in...   Jun 12 2005, 12:38 PM
- - Scar-San   your choices are pointless There is a Evolution f...   Jun 12 2005, 01:48 PM
- - majic_lights   I'm christian so i believe in Creation. Yes, i...   Jun 12 2005, 02:30 PM
- - NightMistress   I am agnostic. I believe in evolution, but I think...   Jun 12 2005, 05:29 PM
- - What, no bacon?   Intelligent design is such garbage. If creation is...   Jun 12 2005, 06:59 PM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 09:59 PM...   Jun 12 2005, 07:21 PM
- - Celestial Fangirl   I'm a Christian and I believe in Creation. E...   Jun 12 2005, 07:26 PM
- - What, no bacon?   QUOTE(arche @ Jun 13 2005, 02:21 AM)QUOTE(Wha...   Jun 12 2005, 07:32 PM
|- - arche   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 10:32 PM...   Jun 12 2005, 07:59 PM
- - Celestial Fangirl   QUOTE(What @ no bacon?,Jun 12 2005, 10:33 PM...   Jun 12 2005, 08:02 PM
- - arche   BTW: the issues I bring up are very simply outline...   Jun 12 2005, 08:07 PM
- - Scar-San   İm muslim and believe God We are changing wi...   Jun 13 2005, 05:32 AM
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