HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Hawkeye X Roy: The Royai Thread, For Roy, Riza, and Royai fans, and more!!
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jacksparrow589
post Jul 17 2011, 08:48 AM
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mademoiselle--As far as any of us know, yes, they're definitely talking about Riza basically being Bradley's hostage. smile.gif


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iAmjelly
post Jul 18 2011, 06:51 AM
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Wow this place has been quiet lately!! Let's put up another question!

So, I'm not sure how many are on LJ and so I don't know how many of you guys saw it, but there was some dispute over there about whether or not it was considered canon that Grumman is Riza's grandfather. I'm not about to bring the debate here, but a question came up that had me wondering.

For the purpose of this question, let's consider the Grumman-Hawkeye relationship canon (if we don't already. Honestly, I was really surprised about the amount of controversy, but again, I'm not bringing that debate here. Just for the purposes of this question, let's just consider the relationship canon, okay?). The question is this: Do you think Roy knows about this relationship, and if so, do you think he would break it to Riza? How?

EDIT: I'm under the assumption that we think Riza doesn't know about this relationship. There's nothing in canon to suggest she would - so basically, I'm wondering, if Roy knows, would he have it in him to keep something like that from her? If he did break it to her, how would he go about it?



Also, I can't remember if this is allowed or not, so Mods, feel free to edit my post if it isn't, but the last set of dubbed episodes of FMA:B just came out and are on a certain site that shall remain nameless until I know for sure that this is allowed. Has anyone else seen them already?


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sarahbn
post Jul 18 2011, 07:00 AM
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[quote name='iAmjelly' date='Jul 18 2011, 07:51 AM' post='758631']
Do you think Roy knows about this relationship, and if so, do you think he would break it to Riza? How?

Does he know about it? I think so; he would make it his business to know who Grumman's relatives were (if for no other reason than to get in their good graces). As for Riza, I don't think she'd have to hear it from Roy; presumably she knows who her own grandfather is.
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iAmjelly
post Jul 18 2011, 07:03 AM
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Canon-wise, I think it's pretty clear that she doesn't know. I probably should have made it clearer - but in my head, it's always been Grumman knows, Roy knows, Riza doesn't - but is it in Roy's character to keep something like that from her? Would he tell her himself? How?


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jacksparrow589
post Jul 18 2011, 07:51 AM
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sarahbn--It's specifically mentioned in the manga that Riza's parents (I think on both sides) were estranged from their families. This happens when Roy is asking her what she'll do after her father's death. Therefore, at least, in my mind, Riza doesn't know any of her extended family.

Anyway, to answer Jelly's question, I feel like Roy would see that as something Grumman should tell Riza, himself, and not a message to pass along whenever he feels like it, because it would probably come out at the wrong time or in the wrong way, and there would certainly be questions that only Grumman could answer to Riza's satisfaction.


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Dark-Winds
post Jul 18 2011, 08:38 AM
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That's an interesting question. Well, I've got my own opinion on this that's a little different.

I think that Grumman obviously knows. Because, I mean, he says it lol.

But here's where it gets tricky. I really don't think that Roy would keep something like that from Riza. I think that Riza knows. I don't think that Grumman told her or anything, but I think that Riza would be able to figure it out herself. I don't think that she knew Grumman as a child, or a teenager, or even during the war, but I bet she figured it out while in the military. If she knew her mother's maiden name was Grumman, and that her family had been involved in the military, then I think she'd be able to put two and two together. I don't think she'd ever address Grumman about it personally, but keep it to herself.

I also think that Roy knows about the relationship. I don't think Roy would have been able to figure it out on his own, but it's hard to say whether it's Riza or Grumman who may have told him. I would think, if anything, Riza might have told him. They don't really keep things from each other, so I don't see why Riza would keep something like that from him.

So, to answer the question: Yes. I do think Roy knows.


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MustangSally
post Jul 18 2011, 01:29 PM
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I think Riza has always known Grumman was her grandfather, I can't see any reason to imagine otherwise. And I imagine it probably happened much like it does in most fanfiction. Madame Christmas knew Grumman due to her business and somehow Grumman was the one who ended up hooking Roy up with Riza's dad, not outright, but given Roy's interest and probably aptitude for Alchemy pointed them in that direction. Perhaps even as a way to keep an eye on his granddaughter, whom he probably wasn't allowed much contact with.

Not that he'd outright say "Keep an eye on my granddaughter" but it would happen just in the course of Roy talking about to Chris about what what he was doing and her passing it along to Grumman.

But there really isn't any reason, imo, to believe Riza didn't know about her mother's family, even if father didn't get along with them after her mother died. It actually sort of gives a better explanation of why she went into the military herself. Yeah Roy was in the military and she liked Roy and admired what he wanted to, that would have been her initial inspiration perhaps but I don't think that would have been enough, I think the fact that it connected her with her mother's side of family probably helped too. It's why she wouldn't have had a bad opinion of the military like her father did, because she knew her mother's side of the family had some connection to it.
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LadyNorbert
post Jul 18 2011, 03:33 PM
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Well, anyone who read the trilogy knows my headcanon. wink.gif But I agree with jelly - I've always believed that Roy knows, Riza doesn't.

Riza's lack of knowledge is actually canon, at least to a point. In the manga, after she and Roy have buried her father, he asks her what she will do. She specifically tells him that neither of her parents ever told her about any other living relatives, and that as far as she's aware, she has no family.

Now, once she joined the military, it's certainly possible that she became aware of her relationship to Grumman. In my mind that didn't happen, but it's possible. I personally believe that he did eventually tell her, but not until after he became Fuhrer.


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yadi ina
post Jul 18 2011, 05:36 PM
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Go, get lost and begin to be deployed with good questions.

First, in answer to @Mademoiselle:
Indeed I think that "Elizabeth" refers to Riza and based on that conversation with Madame Chistmas, I lean to believe that there is a relationship between them, the word "Play", has many possibilities in this talk.

and the question @iAmjelly:
I strongly believe that the scene you're referring to, Riza has all the knowledge that Grumman is his grandfather, but I do not think that is something they have spoken. Just know it because it has been suspected (by his surname, because his father hated the military for some reason ...)

By Grumman, I guess he recognized because it looks like his deceased daughter.

Although, I do not think Riza has always known it, remember what Roy tells the funeral of his father, his parents were away from their families, so had no more relatives.

Roy has that knowledge because it is safer than Grumman had to confess, but because it is a matter that should be involved, says nothing.


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HawkseyeM1910
post Jul 18 2011, 06:09 PM
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@iAmjelly: I really don't understand how people would say it's not canon when it's stated by Arakawa herself. O.o
But I agree with you, I think Grumman and Roy know but Riza doesn't.
Here's that page in the manga where she says neither of her parents ever talked of any relatives, which proves she doesn't/(didn't?) know about Grumman:
http://i10.mangareader.net/full-metal-alch...mist-114020.jpg
I mean she may have been able to figure it out in the military, but we don't know if Riza's mom died when she was too young to be told of her mother's maiden name, and I can't imagine Papa Hawkeye telling Riza her mom's last name before they were married...

If Roy did tell her I don't think it would be before the promise day, I would think he would tell her when (Warning! Series Final Spoiler!)Grumman becomes Fuhrer
Perhaps they have some sort of meeting together and Grumman just tells her, while nervously tripping over his words xD And I'm sure Roy would be sitting right next to her when she receives all the news.


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FirstMoon
post Jul 19 2011, 02:46 PM
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Behold for my crazy headcanon! Well can't really say it as headcanon but something sounded Grumman would do to me.

Ehem,we all know that how much Grumman is good at cross dressing and disguise.I believe he always wanted to see Riza after her mom's death but his father didn't let that. (maybe?) So I can see him disguising to see his granddaughter.A funny and weird tought but who knows?

Also even if Riza knows that I can see the reasons for her not having any scene/relationship with him.There would be so many rumours go around about how Riza and Roy climb fast because they're related to a highranker officer and well...after manga...I don't think she would learn after he becomes ehem ehem either,it'd be worse for gossips and especially for Roy's reputation.Anyways these two made so many sacrifices -including their feelings- I can't see any reason for her not to ignore/sacrifice this relationship too.
The rumours are kinda true tough,I remember Arakawa saying (Warning! Series Final Spoiler!)"Roy's chance at becoming Fuhrer after Grumman is more likely than Olivia since he is more close to him than Olivia." in an interview after manga's end.

And I don't understand those either,I believe Arakawa's style is kinda similar to JKR.There were lots of random things she didn't put in books but said in interviews etc.It doesn't make them "not canon" just the main plot is totally different (two brothers' journey) and she couldn't find a place to put them.I'm still crossing my fingers for FMA Chronicles and spin-offs to answer pre-manga questions honestly.


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RadicalDreamer
post Jul 19 2011, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE (FirstMoon @ Jul 19 2011, 03:46 PM) *
And I don't understand those either,I believe Arakwa's style is kinda similar to JKR.

That's something I also believe. Probably because FMA is a journey from childhood to adulthood and there is the Philosopher Stone, a main trio and adults guiding their quest (who fight their own battles as well)... but I didn't think about the bits the authors put into interviews (that's a good point).


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FirstMoon
post Jul 19 2011, 03:34 PM
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QUOTE (RadicalDreamer @ Jul 19 2011, 04:22 PM) *
QUOTE (FirstMoon @ Jul 19 2011, 03:46 PM) *
And I don't understand those either,I believe Arakwa's style is kinda similar to JKR.

That's something I also believe. Probably because FMA is a journey from childhood to adulthood and there is the Philosopher Stone, a main trio and adults guiding their quest (who fight their own battles as well)... but I didn't think about the bits the authors put into interviews (that's a good point).


Just to clear this I don't say she is inspired by her,I remember in an omake Arakawa was clealy stating that she didn't read any popular fantasy novels (including LOTR) and Ed even said something like "Is it really good for a manga author writing for fantasy genre?" laugh.gif

What I'm trying to say is their brains work in the same way for me.Both are good at creating huuuge universes,characterizations,~~ subtleness ~~ and of course implications and review statements.

I hope you guys won't misunderstand me happy.gif


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Tombow
post Jul 21 2011, 04:26 PM
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^ I agree that both of them are great story-teller with each craft. ^^

As for Riza and General Grumman... Somehow I think Riza knows. And of course Roy knows.
But, no logical explanations. Just that's how I feel. XD


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RoyxRizaFan
post Jul 23 2011, 10:29 AM
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I remember a quote that said what you read is only 10% of the story, kind of like how you can only see 10% of an ice burg. The author knows the other 90%, but doesn't need to plainly state it all to tell teh story. So I agree that these fun facts are just as canon as anything in the actual story happy.gif

Also, this is a really unproductive comment, but I really liked this week's question and everyone's opinions. I'm not sure of what I think myself, but I loved all the different arguments XD


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