HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 13 Discussion, Flame vs. Fullmetal
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post Feb 6 2005, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE(Merc @ Feb 6 2005, 11:49 AM)
...but the "my training is strict" line was too short to be timed with the mouth movements.

That's an excellent point. I didn't even think about that aspect of the translation side. It does make for a greater complcation with translations to have to keep sound coming out for the duration of the lip movements. I wonder how many dub issues are a result of it. I don't know japanese, so I don't know how often japanese is longer/shorter to say than english.


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post Feb 6 2005, 12:51 PM
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QUOTE(Merc @ Feb 6 2005, 08:49 AM)
I agree that I did not like that line, but the "my training is strict" line was too short to be timed with the mouth movements.
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that's true, but i think they could have worked around that without much of a problem. maybe something like "you know my training will be strict, right?" (<-i think i saw it translated like that somewhere, maybe a sub or the manga) i'm not familiar with dubbing, so maybe not. but i think i 'd like the line a lot better if they had changed "punk" to "boy." i don't disagree with line changes, as long as the character speaking remains in character.
QUOTE(Kirara @ Feb 6 2005, 08:16 AM)
My goodness I don't see how one little line changes a character, talk about overreacting.
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maybe we are overreacting, but you haven't seen the raw or sub, so you're not really acquainted with riza's character yet. riza gets little screentime in the whole series, and what we do get to see her do and hear her say builds her character. the line was just very....out of character. riza's very serious, focused, and fiercely loyal, but she has a soft side she'll show every now and then. she doesn't really joke around, and if she does (does she? maybe i've been reading too many fanfics) they're more of the subtle sort, usually aimed at mustang. the shooting-at-buraha thing was probably one of the more extreme things she did in the series, and i thought it was funny because, well, she shoots holes around a poor puppy and all she says is "my training will be strict, you know! happy.gif" while everyone else is O___O, maybe thinking how strict is a complete understatement and how she's way too calm about the whole thing O___O. and that's just very....riza. and as she's my favorite anime character, i think i'd be great for the dub fans to get to know a riza hawkeye not too different from the one the subbers came to know and love, and see how perfectly (okay, i think it's perfect) her calm and controlled character mixes with mustang's.

riza hawkeye fangirl #1, signing out. XD


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Merc
post Feb 6 2005, 12:53 PM
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Dubbing any foreign language media into another language is exceedingly difficult since you're having to time the voices with the mouths. Anime is a bit easier since the mouths generally move up and down and don't have any specific lip movements to signify different vowels or consenents. However, the Japanese language is hard to dub because there aren't as many implications as there are in English. There are also more fillers and signifiers in the Japanese language than in English.

In addition to all that, the Japanese sentence structure is nearly the inverse of English. This makes it even more difficult to figure out how to time and translate the show into English without totally losing the meaning.

But that still doesn't mean that dubbers can completely butcher a script. To be fair, about 98% of that episode kept true to the sub. A lot of the lines were the exact same as the dub, especially during the battle. The only real liberties taken (that I saw) all involved Riza.

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post Feb 6 2005, 01:20 PM
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i can't believe i missed half the episode yesterday! i fell asleep sad.gif
now i have to wait til thursday to watch the entire thing! *walks away frustrated*


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post Feb 6 2005, 02:10 PM
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o_O; Ok, we all agree that the "You have a strict new mommy" line Risa said was creepy.

I enjoyed the episode, made me laugh a lot (especially when Al was with the kitty!), and made me excited to see the next episode.

Before the commercial, I thought Ed was going to do something with Al or the cat. Anybody else think that too?


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ἀρχή
post Feb 6 2005, 02:25 PM
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Kasumi
post Feb 6 2005, 02:39 PM
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I don't think it's so much "you have a new mommy now" that's the problem, but rather the word "punk." As xrninja stated a page, that's really out of character for Riza. Riza Hawkeye is not the type of person to use informal language. I'm sure there are other one syllable words that could've replaced "punk."


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post Feb 6 2005, 08:00 PM
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I was fine with the Riza line, but that's just me.

The thing that bugged me about the episode was Ed's imitation of Roy at the beginning. It was just so bad. The imitation in the sub was executed well; it wasn't over-the-top to the point where it would be annoying but it wasn't under-done to the point where it wouldn't fit right.

The dub's imitation though. Just, ugh. It was leaning more towards too over-the-top and over-exaggerated to the point it just wasn't funny.


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Panzer Dragoon
post Feb 6 2005, 08:15 PM
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The beginning really did make me laugh. While Ed was imitating Roy, Al's all like OMG... sleep.gif;


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"I would venture to say that Professor Gilmore is spending too much time thinking!
He's made it a habit of blaming Black Ghost for nearly everything!"

(Then he sings:)
"Whennnnn! Everything positive turns to toast
It doesn't matter on which coast!
When good intentions get the roast -
Gilmore will have to blame Black Ghost!

Thank you, I'm here all week! Try the veal!"
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Tobu Ishi
post Feb 6 2005, 10:27 PM
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Oh dear...as someone who plans to translate someday, my choice for "Uchi no shitsuke wa kibishii wa yo!" would have been, "None of that nonsense, now! I discipline strictly." Or perhaps "Don't try that with me, I'm a very strict disciplinarian!" It would depend on how her mouth was moving.

...but maybe that's just me. happy.gif If/when I end up with a translating firm, I'm watching the series clear through at least twice in Japanese and dabbling at least nominally in the fandom before starting on a project. Nothing worse than missing the heart of a character.


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ἀρχή
post Feb 6 2005, 10:50 PM
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QUOTE(Tobu Ishi @ Feb 7 2005, 12:27 AM)
Oh dear...as someone who plans to translate someday,

Oh, very nice smile.gif. You can appreciate the difficulties in this whole translation issue whether it's sub or dub. I think people often miss the point in how many factors go into translations (words, sentence structure, culture, intent, context, inflection and now I'm realizing for anime - length of sentences).

Anyway, episode 13 is one of the more pivotal episodes for the Ed/Roy relationship. In the end, Ed begins to get a glimpse at Roy that he really doesn't consider often. It's also a good fleshing out episode for the military characters. That's why it's so important to get them right as they have huge impact on people, but don't really show up as often as Ed & Al. Thier portrayal in the sub version, however, really makes you feel like you know them.

:edit: Half of my post's ideas were stolen from xrninja. sorry tongue.gif


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post Feb 6 2005, 11:08 PM
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QUOTE(arche @ Feb 6 2005, 09:50 PM)
:edit: Half of my post's ideas were stolen from xrninja. sorry tongue.gif
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really? well, no problem, steal away tongue.gif
QUOTE(Tobu Ishi @ Feb 6 2005, 09:27 PM)
Oh dear...as someone who plans to translate someday, my choice for "Uchi no shitsuke wa kibishii wa yo!" would have been, "None of that nonsense, now!  I discipline strictly."  Or perhaps "Don't try that with me, I'm a very strict disciplinarian!"  It would depend on how her mouth was moving.

...but maybe that's just me.  happy.gif  If/when I end up with a translating firm, I'm watching the series clear through at least twice in Japanese and dabbling at least nominally in the fandom before starting on a project.  Nothing worse than missing the heart of a character.
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i think those are good translations, in that they show that she's a no-nonsense kind of person and that she's very.....together, and controlled. can't describe it. and best of luck if you go into translating; i think getting the heart of a character across should be essential to translators, as well as how the fans see the character. smile.gif


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post Feb 6 2005, 11:26 PM
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Well, I just watched the episode myself. mellow.gif The Roy+Hayate and Roy+Miniskirt parts weren't as bad as I thought they could potentially be. I actually didn't mind them.

But the Riza thing is still . . . odd.


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post Feb 6 2005, 11:39 PM
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This episode is also important because we get the first appearance by Major Alex Louis Armstrong!


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post Feb 6 2005, 11:39 PM
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It was amusing how Roy was almost singing while waving Hayate around. o_o


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