HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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More About The Ending, It is not that bright as portrayed
Forock
post Jan 25 2005, 04:58 PM
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At the end of the anime, Al and Ed stayed in a different world, and it ended in sort of like 'we'll see each other soon' style.
Honestly, is it possible?
Ed's plan in travelling to space is clearly not going to work. For Al, he lost all his memories- including those on alchemy and fighting skills, also persumably his past journeys. What would he do if he was to be reminded of them again? He is not immortal anymore, and the stake of him dying would be extremely high- counting on the pessimistic nature of the anime itself. Another point is that 'how can he re-open the door?' I have totally no idea in the last few episodes how it was done, by putting the mark onto that baby (who is the father anyway?)? if so, is it that simple?
The main thing is that no one was sure that Ed was alive, and none of them would have acknowledged that the 'real' world exists, probably havn't even thought about that.
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Daveman!
post Jan 25 2005, 05:19 PM
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But there's a movie 2 years later and they have scenes together... so I'm hoping it's a permanent reunion so I can stop thinking about it.
Anyway the world isn't necessarily our world, it's just extremely similar wink.gif. Ed could fly his crazy self through a black hole or something. O_o With anime there's always a way.
"Hey you know those laws of physics and chemistry? Let's ignore them!"
They can pretty much redefine the universe as they see fit, that's one of the great things about anime smile.gif.


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brigadier mustan...
post Jan 25 2005, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE(Forock @ Jan 25 2005, 06:58 PM)
At the end of the anime, Al and Ed stayed in a different world, and it ended in sort of like 'we'll see each other soon' style.
Honestly, is it possible?
Ed's plan in travelling to space is clearly not going to work. For Al, he lost all his memories- including those on alchemy and fighting skills, also persumably his past journeys. What would he do if he was to be reminded of them again? He is not immortal anymore, and the stake of him dying would be extremely high- counting on the pessimistic nature of the anime itself. Another point is that 'how can he re-open the door?' I have totally no idea in the last few episodes how it was done, by putting the mark onto that baby (who is the father anyway?)? if so, is it that simple?
The main thing is that no one was sure that Ed was alive, and none of them would have acknowledged that  the 'real' world exists, probably havn't even thought about that.
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hehehe very true laugh.gif
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Queen of the dam...
post Jan 26 2005, 07:14 AM
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That's the true meaning of Anime!!! DEFY THE LAWS OF SCIENCE!!!!!! laugh.gif


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Forock
post Jan 26 2005, 12:23 PM
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Well, as they've said alchemist is a 'science' right? If it is too far off the 'real' world's definition of science then it would be extremely confusing. Anyway, I think there is also a aberration in the time line- choosing the world war for this so called real world (as Daveman's said, it might not be our world). The alchemist world is way more developed- just take a look at the buildings!

I also hope that the movie will provide us with some explanation, but honestly the chance of such is quite small. Don't forget that the comic hasn't ended yet- and it might as well base on it instead of the anime.
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Dark State
post Jan 26 2005, 12:31 PM
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true...I was thinking the same. The point of the end though isn't to think of them bringing eachother together, it's to emphasize the companionship and bond that they had. There are people still alive that knew Ed, and you don't know if Dante is dead, so maybe she'll be a part in their reunion, if they have one.

My opinion is just that you can't look at the ending so literally in the fact that they will see eachother. It's a continuation of their mission, to bring themselves back to their prior state. That state was two normal brothers living together. So who knows if they'll join eachother, but we do know that they will do everything that they can. Maybe on their journey they'll learn something new...who knows? Hopefully the movie has some answers


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Forock
post Jan 26 2005, 12:55 PM
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love the idea of learning something new! Maybe Ed can figure out how to use alchemy in the 'real' world- it will be so cool then.
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Daveman!
post Jan 26 2005, 03:47 PM
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Maybe the method for accessing the gate within yourself is different on the other side, so he has to re-learn it. ohmy.gif

In the interviews the Producer says that the movie is based on the TV series.

I think the mission to return themselves to their normal state was just a goal to motivate them to bigger and better things, and now that they've grown up some they realize that the original destination is not that important, what with all the love and friendship and all.

Or it could be aliens and that's why Ed learns rocketry ohmy.gif.

Later on Ed makes the first mechs and they form a squadron of alchemy mechs to battle off the alien invasion ohmy.gif.


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Dark State
post Jan 26 2005, 07:25 PM
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Ha ha...it turns into a anime version of star wars blink.gif


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Daveman!
post Jan 26 2005, 07:39 PM
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Star Wars meets Escaflowne blink.gif


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Guest_Demonbane_*
post Jan 26 2005, 10:10 PM
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I just thought of something and this seems like a good enough topic to post it under =P
I haven't seen the movie trailer, but I've heard how it shows Al in his armor body again. Since bringing your body across The Gate seems to be a one-way thing, perhaps Ed found another suit of armor and Al is using it as a temporary body to house his soul in while he's in the non-Alchemy world.
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biodermic
post Jan 27 2005, 02:11 AM
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while that makes a good degree of sense, I like the alchemy mech more.
Fire transmutation missles!!!!

oh, as a note to Forok, Al didn't entirely lose his memory of alchemy, he still knows everything up to the point of when he tried to ressurect his mother. so he just lost most of the really useful stuff, he still knows quite a bit.
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Queen of the dam...
post Jan 27 2005, 03:50 AM
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QUOTE(Daveman! @ Jan 27 2005, 02:39 AM)
Star Wars meets Escaflowne blink.gif
[snapback]98413[/snapback]


Does Hohemhein get to wear that cool suit Darth Vader had then? biggrin.gif <=Former Star Wars junkie


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Ghost
post Feb 3 2005, 03:57 AM
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Ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow ow... wacko.gif

No. Hush. Listen. Sh-sh-ssshhh, listen now. It's gonna be okay, I promise.

Okay so, first:
QUOTE(Forock)
Honestly, is it possible?
It's a fictional story. If the storyteller says it's possible, it's possible. I'm not even talking about, like "Oh just write it off because it's anime and anime never makes sense." I'm saying storytellers need to be allowed to tell their story their way. If they have a point (even if that point is just to tell an entertaining story) then they will either succeed or fail. Reality has no place in fiction except in making it more believable and therefore more entertaining. The less suspension of diselief required from the audience, the more believable one makes the few outrageous things. However this rule should never cause a member of the audience to consider how "plausible" a given fictional theory is.

If you can accept the existence of a WHOLE OTHER WORLD existing, parallel to ours yet on a seperate historical path, then I think you can accept that there might, just possibly be some way to cross from one of those universes to the other...from space.

I mean, hell, if you're asking if it's feasible in real life? No. It isn't. But that's largely because there ain't no WHOLE OTHER WORLD on the other side of no "the Gate" recieving no souls to perform no "alchemy." Not because outer space lacks the facilities to reach this fictional land.

But if, as I initially assumed, you were speculating on the potential success of Ed's space exploration in achieving his stated goals within a fictional realm...then I say, "Why don't we wait and see what the Storyteller says about that?"

Moving on.
QUOTE(Forock)
Ed's plan in travelling to space is clearly not going to work.
Why? Why not? Why would you assume that? This isn't the real world; we don't know the rules. It is based on the real world, yes. But that does not make it either historical or factual. It's pretend. And in the laws of storytelling, when a character reaches out for something which may or may not be possible, it's almost as god as the voice of God telling you something is within reach. Otherwise there would be absolutely no point in the character spending any time in the pursuit thereof. (Excepting cases in which the character learns, in the process of striving for this unattainable goal, that they've actually gained something much more worthwhile than what they thought they were striving for; i.e. brotherhood, love, self-confidence, etc. -or- cases in which the strife and mental anguish caused by the endless and necessarily fruitless effort expended by the hapless dreamer creates human drama.)

So until the Storytellers say it's impossible, it's possible. I didn't make up the rules, it's just how fiction works. Really good fiction breaks rules, and thereby reinforces them. You have to go into a story expecting it to play by the rules, or else when it breaks those rules the impact will be lost on you.

Moving on.
QUOTE(Forock)
What would he do if he was to be reminded of them again?
My interpretation of his memory loss was that he'd been reverted, spiritually as well as physically, to the point at which he lost his body. Therefore he'd be unable to regain memories he technically never had. Think of it like time travel rather than amnesia.

Next
QUOTE(Forock)
He is not immortal anymore, and the stake of him dying would be extremely high...
Technically he was never "immortal." If anything he was closer to death than anyone - his whole existence relied on a rusty diagram painted on cheap metal. He was hanging on by a thread, the way I saw it, but that's just my own view. Still, I don't think Al's life should be considered any higher risk than any other living characters'. Sure, he could die and never come back...but so could Winry, Riza, Hayate...anyone really. And if anything, the soldiers are who you should be worried about, considering they actually see combat from time to time.

Anyhow
QUOTE(Forock)
...counting on the pessimistic nature of the anime itself.
Okay I hear you on that note. Christ, what a downer. ...aaaand
QUOTE(Forock)
Another point is that 'how can he re-open the door?' I have totally no idea in the last few episodes how it was done, by putting the mark onto that baby...? if so, is it that simple?
Nothing in alchemy is simple. I'm a little confused about the baby-gate correlation myself, but I know that the baby represented something. I think it might have worked with any newborn infant. Doesn't Dante say some crap about potentiality? Babies are nothing but potential, so that might make sense. The Gate represents potential, sorta. Unbound souls, catalystic energy, huge mysterious void. Maybe I'm just making shit up now, I don't remember Dante's rant too well, and my girlfriend has all the episodes so I can't go double-check. But I'll go with the above theory about potentiality being the link, at the risk of sounding crazy.

So one last thing. And I really don't know how people can not get this. I mean no offense, I just really think it's obvious.
QUOTE(Forock)
(who is the father anyway?)
Okay. I'm not gonna put this softly. SHE WAS RAPED. It's what's known as a "war crime." Soldiers rape women in the villages they invade. All the time. Throughout history. Sometimes even as a tactic, especially when fighting a guerilla war, ordered by the generals and commanders in order to break the will of the rebelling natives. This is reality. Now I'm not suggesting that the Fuhrer or anyone ordered the rape of villagers. But Amestrisian soldiers did rape Roze. And she got pregnant. And that's where babies come from.

QUOTE(Forock)
The alchemist world is way more developed- just take a look at the buildings!
While not 100% positive, I am almost certain that the two sides of "the Gate" are at roughly the same level of technological development (with "Roy's-Side" being slightly behind "our" side). The few buildings we see in Munich in the '20s are indicative of real life history in that time period. I saw nothing in the whole FMA TV series suggesting a higher level of technology than they had in our real-life '20s (except auto-mail, but I think we're supposed to ignore that). At one point Hohenheim mentions that while on one side of "the Gate" alchemy was developed, while on the other side machines were developed. I took that to mean that, aside from every aspect of life which was affected by these key differences, all other factors were similar if not identical. He even points out that there was someone on both sides of "the [b]Gate[/g]" fitting his physical (and, I would imagine, to some extent spiritual) description.

So (except for the auto-mail, which seems more like a fanciful extravagance than a major plot staple, however much is helps build several characters) I really think "our" side and "Roy's-Side" are supposed to have near-equal levels of development.

Thank you for your patience, sorry that took so long. I hope I sorted some things out.

P.S. Christopher Lee should play Alphonse Elric in the live-action movie.


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Greensky
post Feb 15 2005, 02:46 PM
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In the movie, Ed will be 18, and Al will be 12. Al lost a lot of years, he should be 16, right? sad.gif


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