HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Transmutation circles in FMA, How do they work? Explaining transmutation circles found in FMA, Questions welcome! :)
reason
post Oct 4 2011, 05:24 PM
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Uh, I don't know how that could be true, since subatomic particles were unknown in the Middle Ages.

Anyway, can you provide your source for the 17th century quote? Even if it's not the original meaning of squaring the circle, it might have been an inspiration for the series.

Also, you can find his work here: http://www.fullmetal-alchemist.com/forums/...showtopic=14418.

I want to know if there's any method to drawing circles, or at least if there's any system created by Arawaka herself.
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Archeia
post Oct 5 2011, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (reason @ Oct 5 2011, 08:24 AM) *
Uh, I don't know how that could be true, since subatomic particles were unknown in the Middle Ages.

Anyway, can you provide your source for the 17th century quote? Even if it's not the original meaning of squaring the circle, it might have been an inspiration for the series.

Also, you can find his work here: http://www.fullmetal-alchemist.com/forums/...showtopic=14418.

I want to know if there's any method to drawing circles, or at least if there's any system created by Arawaka herself.


As for subatomic particles, Alchemy is pretty much very early Chemistry and they were pretty much doing it "unawarely" if I'm making any sense here. And Alchemy symbols are usually focused around science+religion. So that circle inside a square is not really based on a "Mathematical" context so to speak from what I saw in a lot of stuff -- they love to encode their works based on mysticism/religion/personal life/etc.

Nature path uses Alchemical Symbols and the 4 Triangle Elements.

And here:
*Check below*

Rerranging the Links for the sake of sanity:

http://www.crossroad.to/Books/symbols1.html#seal
^^this one explains the 17th century whatever. Look for alchemy by pressing CTRL+F

http://thetrumpetstone.blogspot.com/2011/0...-in-square.html
^^IF you know why I'm linking this then thank goodness, if not then allow me try to explain it as painfully clear as possible. Alchemy tends to have Religious, Egypt, China, Kabbalah etc.etc.etc. Symbolism. In entirety, the circle inside a square is a SYMBOL itself. This is why at first I posted a very brief history of alchemy website to reinforce that statement/fact/whatever

http://www.whats-your-sign.com/circle-symbol-meaning.html
^^this site is very self explanatory. Despite being looking like some mysticism site (lol alchemy is based on that too guess what) it also explained Alchemy stuff which I linked earlier but whatever. I'm giving you the GEOMETRICAL page. It also explained Ouroboros etc. So she's legit. Okay?

DEVIANTART PAGES
greenlover77777.deviantart.com
notshurly.deviantart.com/gallery
http://alchemy-junkies.deviantart.com/
^^If you personally want to talk to people who makes transmutation circles. Go ask them.
Notshurly even has a book so just check out his DA page.

I'd show more from a modern alchemist friend of mine that studied modern alchemy (that alchemy uses 3/4 fundamentals of nature, not the 4 elements), so I'm afraid I can't help you on the other stuff since it's pretty much personal research by now <:3c.

Oh the hell, I finally found our conversation log.

QUOTE
Also, alchemists of the past had an inkling about these three laws being the core to alchemy, too (referring to the fundamentals of nature: electromagnetism, weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force).

The reason why alchemic circles are drawn back then with perfect polygons inside of their circles is often to represent electrons, and the
proton structure in the middle.

And alchemy is pretty much about using what's natural occuring and changing it to something else. (Hello chemistry)


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reason
post Oct 5 2011, 09:46 PM
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I appreciate your answers, but you are either not understanding or ignoring my question. I did not mean the symbols. Elements' symbols are easily found on wikipedia. What I'm asking about are the geometrical diagrams used in transmutation circles.
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Archeia
post Oct 5 2011, 10:14 PM
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:|

The links do HAVE GEOMETRIC SYMBOLS (CIRCLE, TRIANGLE, SQUARE, DIAMOND unless god forbid these are not geometrical symbols) and how the TRANSMUTATION CIRCLES WORK if that makes sense and what some GEOMETRIC SYMBOLS LIKE THE MISINTERPRETED STAR OF DAVID IN ALCHEMY WHEN IT'S ACTUALLY NOT THE STAR OF DAVID but is actually the HEXAGRAM and it also has the SQUARE INSIDE THE CIRCLE SYMBOLOGY IN THERE and WHY it is IMPLEMENTED IN ALCHEMY.



I'm not sure what else you would like to show you since please do elaborate more what else I can give you. To answer your geometry thing on how and why nature path alchemist's transmutation circles are like that (they're NOT JUST SHAPE DEPENDENT).

Oh what the hell let me post it in here.

Like I said in the earlier post, Notshurly made a BOOK (pdf format) that explains it even more IN-DEPTH, good grief. Here's some pages from the book:






EXXOS's tutorial on HOW TO MAKE ONE.




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Choo choo!


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reason
post Oct 5 2011, 11:47 PM
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Ooo, I didn't see those when I looked. Cool!
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oAlevMarie
post Dec 23 2011, 02:08 PM
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can anyone tell me the meaning of his circle because imgona get it as a tatto (:
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Attached File  elric_kyodai.jpg ( 46.79K ) Number of downloads: 13
 
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njrk97
post Jan 2 2012, 05:14 PM
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righty oh how about this one im guessing something to do with silver


Attached File  Untitled.png ( 1.22MB ) Number of downloads: 13

another thing to not is that in the manga the scale on his hand was a petagram

ETA: Jan. 13. is this entire forums dead or something?

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Tombow
post Jan 13 2012, 11:48 AM
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^ @njrk97 - The OP of this thread has been inactive for a while. We'll try contacting the OP, and see if we can get the response to some of the questions posted recently. smile.gif

QUOTE (oAlevMarie @ Dec 23 2011, 05:08 PM) *
can anyone tell me the meaning of his circle because imgona get it as a tatto (:

@oAlevMarie - Could you tell us where that image is from? Is that from Bluebird's Illusion FMA game (non-official fan-made FMA game)? ...just checking because knowing that might help others with the answer to your question. ^^


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EdokunEdo
post Jan 15 2012, 07:42 AM
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@Tombow I believe thats from the last episode of the Original Fullmetal Alchemist series where Ed brings Al back to life


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Tombow
post Jan 15 2012, 08:28 AM
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^ Ah, yes, thank you, EdokunEdo! biggrin.gif


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DarrylMaples
post Feb 27 2012, 07:45 AM
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QUOTE (Nature Path Alchemist @ Mar 21 2011, 03:13 AM) *
Thanks laugh.gif
anyway, take a look at roy's circle:

This circle's inner circle is simply to support the obvious emblem of fire at the top, but the most interesting thing is that the four outer triangles are doubles of the symbols for earth, pointing downward, and air, pointing upward, key elements of fire (air is required to burn, earth is the fuel) the center triangle is another symbol of fire.
the salamander at the bottom is yet another symbol of fire, but may also be a representation of roy mustang nature in the anime. salamaders are linked to fire because they slept in rotting logs, which when set alight would cause the salamander to rush out, making people believe they are born of fire.


Might I add to this as well, a few bits of understanding to the process of this transmutation circle. For some of it, we have to understand the question "What is fire?". It does indeed need the earth component, but it is viewed backwards, earth is the origin of the BIRTH of the flame, not the fuel, as well as Oxygen or air, is indeed required to burn, but is the FUEL. The reason he can use his transmutation of flame is because of the glove he put it on. The "Ignition cloth" he uses is the requisite composition of earth material he is using, to create the flames origin(the spark). In which he can then manipulate the travel path of the flame through the alchemy.

Normally, a Transmutations circle's arrays stay within the confines of the circle, thus making the reaction inside the circle. His desired effect is to act upon an object outside of his circle(why would he want to burn his hand? haha), which is why the triangles in his array breach the circle, indicating the reaction take place and be controlled outside of the array.

Just my 2 cents.
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DarrylMaples
post Feb 27 2012, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE (oAlevMarie @ Dec 23 2011, 03:08 PM) *
can anyone tell me the meaning of his circle because imgona get it as a tatto (:


This one's a bit tricky, not only is it human transmutation, but it is very.....lacking in details. What I get from it is inside of the circle the arrays are all stemming from an inner circle, pointing outside of the circle. Meaning the reaction wanted is to happen outside of the circle. The main circle of a transmutation circle is All is one, one is all. The basic concept of unity, and that all matter is tied together, everything comes from the same place, and thus everything returns to the same place. The circle in the middle of the circle is NOT a reaction point, but a reference to the user itself, sort of like the outer circle is the All is one, and the inner is the One is all. Meaning the inside circle represents all of his being, his soul, his experiences, whatever you'd like to call the representation of himself. These could be construed as multiple parts of him so he placed them in multiple spots on his body, just like he did when he transmuted al's soul at the beginning of fullmetal alchemist 1. He offered his whole body, a bunch of choices for the transmutation of al's soul.

SPOILER ALERT - next part will be done in spoiler so I don't ruin anything for anyone who hasn't seen the end.

The fact that all the points of the array are leading from the circle representing himself, leaving the area of the transmutation circle, means that he is using "all of his being" to give in exchange for another thing. The points to also help describe this, is the fact that all of his array lines together move through all 6 points of a hexagram(image provided in attachment), indicating all elements. The circle being written in his own blood gives a component to his own personal being as well and or that of one related to him, the same reasoning for their blood into their mother's transmutation,(soul data, as they referred to it at that time, even if they may have been flawed or mistaken) and in the use of binding al's soul to the suit of armor. In short, the point of this transmutation circle is to willfully offer one's true self, their body, their mind, their soul, and everything that could be considered themselves, to be traded for the desired person/person's/thing/things.

Attached File  hidden_hexagon.png ( 7.82K ) Number of downloads: 4


P.S. Sorry for the terrible free hand circle in the attachment, I suck at freehand circles, and paint tool sai doesn't have a circle shape tool lol.
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tansyuduri
post May 10 2012, 05:46 AM
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This might help clicky!
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