HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
full metal alchemist
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post Jan 23 2005, 03:11 AM
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QUOTE(hitokiri @ Jan 23 2005, 01:26 AM)
understand that some people feel that funi IS ruining the show and that is their right. yes i do agree some people do attack dub lovers. but you know what? this is the japanese FMA section so its kinda expected...  still i do agree it doesn't make it right.

the people that were basically the founders of this section spent a year of their lives waiting for the episode releases, week by week. now that gives some of them a very personal connection to the show. they just feel that the dubbing has betrayed a certain sense/quality that makes this show enjoyable to them.  to them it would be like redoing Man in Bowler Hat in cell shading format..

as for respect? to me at least, they have done nothing that deserves my respect. putting the japanese version in the DVD, oh wow they included the orignal voices, that was so hard and took SO much time. it called creating a larger consumer market. as for the tremendous favor they have done us by bringing the show to the US... they do it for money. they are a busniess that is the point of business.
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And do you expect them not wanting to make more money by just releasing Japanese versions without dubs and withholding the profits that they could make by creating "delay" anticipation? As you said, it's business and their objective is to make money. Name me one business that's not defunct that doesn't want to make money. They're out here to make a profit, and that's fine by my book if it's worth buying (and I'm happy to pay both Funimation and Bones).

Moreover, Funimation has done an excellent job with localizing the series. Be thankful that it wasn't licensed to 4Kids. There will always be delays and delays; would you rather not see the series licensed at all? If you like the series that much, would you not pay your respects to Bones who gets a share of what you pay to Funimation? They're trying accomodate both those who enjoy watching dubs and those who enjoy watching subs with the original Japanese track. It helps maximize profits. And seriously. It's really not that long, compared to other series. Naruto is yet to be licensed.

To some, dubbing and subbing becomes a matter of religion. I'm watching Full Metal Alchemist for entertainment value, not to worship it (although I'm sure some other fans do the latter). I find it almost ironic that people make dubs a matter of life and death, even if subs are included on the DVD ("OMG, there are dubs! I can't buy this DVD even though it has subs! It's automatically crap!").

I'm far from being eligible to judge the dubbing/subbing quality--as I'm still working on speaking Japanese fluently--but I believe that if and only if you know the language just as well as a native speaker, then you can make judgments about the quality of a dub/sub. And we haven't even see the Funimation subtitles for Fullmetal Alchemist, so we can't judge its quality yet. But I'm almost certain that translators who are paid certainly will be more inclined to be careful (especially since they usually have access to fansubs to compare their work at that point). And if you're so critical of the translations, could you do better? And there's a really awesome feature on most DVD players that let you choose audio tracks and subtitles! Oh, and if you want, you don't have to watch Adult Swim!

I don't watch dubs, for the same reason most people don't. You don't get the same emotion or reaction the director would have wanted many times, because it's directed by someone else and because there's a language barrier. Subtitles at least preserver the emotion and give you an interpretation. However, there comes the occasional series that has an extremely talented group of voice actors (e.g. Cowboy Bebop).

I'm sorry, but I tend to speak sharply against critics who don't listen to others. I also find your criticism of Funimation unjustified, without claim or merit.
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hitokiri
post Jan 23 2005, 03:24 AM
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um... perhaps you should read the posts that preceeded the one you quoted. then you'd understand that i agree with you on all of your points except for the liking of funi.

they've ruined too many animes for me, i dislike them and all they entail. that is based on personal preference not fact, i never claimed it was. you see, opinion is one of the last true freedoms and that was mine. its called being a bastard about it, which i wll freely admit i am.


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keske
post Jan 23 2005, 03:25 AM
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QUOTE(hitokiri @ Jan 23 2005, 01:26 AM)
understand that some people feel that funi IS ruining the show and that is their right. yes i do agree some people do attack dub lovers. but you know what? this is the japanese FMA section so its kinda expected...  still i do agree it doesn't make it right.

the people that were basically the founders of this section spent a year of their lives waiting for the episode releases, week by week. now that gives some of them a very personal connection to the show. they just feel that the dubbing has betrayed a certain sense/quality that makes this show enjoyable to them.  to them it would be like redoing Man in Bowler Hat in cell shading format..

as for respect? to me at least, they have done nothing that deserves my respect. putting the japanese version in the DVD, oh wow they included the orignal voices, that was so hard and took SO much time. it called creating a larger consumer market. as for the tremendous favor they have done us by bringing the show to the US... they do it for money. they are a busniess that is the point of business.
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Oh, and I'm sure that the fact that you don't respect them means a lot to them. They'll be heartbroken to find that you won't be paying them. I can also see you are paying homage to Bones by refusing to pay what would have been their portion of the fees.

I'd like to know, out of curiosity, how they've "ruined" so many anime titles for you. You are always free to get the DVD version with the original Japanese track and with their subtitles. You most definitely do not have to subject yourself to dubs.

And, yes, it's a big accomplishment if they have the original voices on the DVD in the United States. An even bigger one if they haven't tried to market it for kids by censoring all the blood and violence. You are forgetting that Funimation is a US company, and they've done very well considering how bad the series could have been if it were localized to 4kids.

Are you saying you rather not have the series licensed at all if it were licensed to Funimation?

Business means that they're out here to make money. And the wait period seems reasonable, considering how long it takes for other Japanese goods and innovations (think electronics) to get here.

It's good to have enthusiasm about the show, but when you become overzealous, I can't help but feel sorry for you. It's just a show for you to entertain and relax your mind, after all. This will be the last post I'll make in this thread, as it doesn't make sense for me to listen to someone who will not listen to what I have to say.
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hitokiri
post Jan 23 2005, 03:28 AM
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you too should read the post that the one you quoted was in response to...

PS: as for the at least it wasnt 4kids argument just because it was the lesser of two evils, doesn't make it good.


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Quistis88
post Jan 23 2005, 03:31 AM
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They're the same person. Unless it's two different people who happened to use the same computer and happened to know that this forum exists.


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hitokiri
post Jan 23 2005, 03:37 AM
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wow... that guy sure spent of lot of typing time just to prove my bastardness and apparently he doesn't understand sacarasm so well....


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post Jan 23 2005, 10:59 AM
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There are plenty of grounds for criticizing sub vs. dub. If Funi has a bad track record in their dubs with regard to making translations consistent and fit the audience, then there is plenty of room for criticism. Hitokiri's speaking as a regular anime viewer. He's claiming that Funi is not good at doing the dub work (I don't know if you're also not happy with their sub work or not).

The question now really becomes one of whether or not Hitokiri is the average audience for anime or if he's in some sub-class as well as what business philosophy does Funi have regarding targeting its audience. If the business philosophy of Funi is to sell out as much as possible to the lowest common denominator anime viewer, then they may be succeeding well, but are doing a disservice to those like Hitokiri. Other companies may have a philosophy that targets the Hitokiri type anime watcher not worrying about selling tons of a series because they know that they will get repeat business from the Hitokiri style fans.

I doubt that Hitokiri is the lowest common denominator anime viewer and it appears that Funi is interested in targetting the lowest common denominator anime viewer. I would say that there's enough on the DVD to make it worth buying for a fansub lover, but it should be understandable if the DVD seems like it will not truly deliver the experience they had with the fansubs.

That was far too long, and may have some incorrectness in reasoning, but the point should be clear (I hope tongue.gif)


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Daveman!
post Jan 24 2005, 05:18 PM
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I can't stand the dubbed version, the voices are ok at times, but they're wEiRd when you've seen the japanese version. The english script is also a bit lacking ohmy.gif. The japanese version also represents the characters, emotions, and situations better IMO. Plus Ed is way funnier screaming in Japanese. biggrin.gif

Subs > Dubs

Cowboy Bebop is the only anime I can think of right now that's badass in english

Plus with the fansubbed versions you can watch them all in a row ohmy.gif. FMA is like crack.


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The Judge
post Apr 12 2005, 07:00 AM
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I say just watch both and make your own opinion. As with everything, it is a matter of opinion. Some people like subs, some people like dubs. Most of the anime I have seen has been dubbed because I saw them on tv and because it's just easier to watch when you don't understand japanese. Yes I admit that a fair bit can be lost in translation to dubs and voices and synching can be awful but I do not think that these can make a good show bad. It may diminish your enjoyment of it to an extent but I don't think that it would be to such an extent that you will not enjoy it.

I enjoy both subs and dubs. They both have their merits and shortcomings. The one thing I might say against subs is in relation to fansubs. Some of them are absolutely dire. Whilst I understand that things may be hard to translate sometimes, they can still be put in such a manner as to make them idiomatic and well understandable (lol). That would be the only warning I give to some as I feel that that definitely takes something away from the show. Missing things out in the dubs is forgiveable as you can still understand it but having subs that sometimes make no sense isn't really.
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kimichaninjapan
post Apr 22 2005, 11:47 PM
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i couldnt download it in the beginning, so i realied on the dubbed. (i do that with all anime) but i bought the series of ebay. The japanese is much better, but the dubbed version isnt TOTALLY bad. but i really do hate winrys voice in the dub, its too deep. i cant imagine her crying like in episode twenty something... (the automail city one)


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TheVileOne
post Apr 23 2005, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE(arche @ Jan 23 2005, 05:59 PM)
There are plenty of grounds for criticizing sub vs. dub. If Funi has a bad track record in their dubs with regard to making translations consistent and fit the audience, then there is plenty of room for criticism. Hitokiri's speaking as a regular anime viewer. He's claiming that Funi is not good at doing the dub work (I don't know if you're also not happy with their sub work or not).

The question now really becomes one of whether or not Hitokiri is the average audience for anime or if he's in some sub-class as well as what business philosophy does Funi have regarding targeting its audience. If the business philosophy of Funi is to sell out as much as possible to the lowest common denominator anime viewer, then they may be succeeding well, but are doing a disservice to those like Hitokiri. Other companies may have a philosophy that targets the Hitokiri type anime watcher not worrying about selling tons of a series because they know that they will get repeat business from the Hitokiri style fans.

I doubt that Hitokiri is the lowest common denominator anime viewer and it appears that Funi is interested in targetting the lowest common denominator anime viewer. I would say that there's enough on the DVD to make it worth buying for a fansub lover, but it should be understandable if the DVD seems like it will not truly deliver the experience they had with the fansubs.

That was far too long, and may have some incorrectness in reasoning, but the point should be clear (I hope tongue.gif)
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How did you come to this LCD conclusion? Do you even realize that Funimation didn't even translate any of the songs from FMA into English on the DVD's for the English language track? That right there should be a pretty clear indicator on how far they are trying to please the people who watched it in fan-subs or people already familiar with the show.

I don't know how great their sub work is. It seems accurate, but I don't know Japanese. Though I do hear Funimations subtitles for DBZ are excellent, or the particular guy that works on them does a good job. Don't quote me on it though.


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I have had victory and defeat, and defeat in victory.
I will never be overmatched or unprepared.
This is who I am and who I will always be…I am Chris Benoit!"
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ancientcatalchem...
post Apr 23 2005, 02:48 PM
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In actuality, I found this out from the friend who got me into FMA before it was released in the US, is that the Japanese producers are the ones that chose the English voice actors. So any qualms about that I would take it up with them. Apparently they liked the voice actors, though Armstrong's voice is scary. This is why I'm glad to have all the episodes in Japanese and fansubbed.
QUOTE(ZeeDeveel @ Jan 9 2005, 12:36 PM)
Yeah, the English dubbing is so weird after seeing the whole series in Japanese.

I actually don't like it much.
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Edo-mame
post Apr 23 2005, 11:47 PM
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I don't really have much to say about the English dub voices other than Edo sounds a bit too old and not like Edo... same for Al too but that may be because I'm so used to the Japanese voices. But then I only saw the first episode so I can't really say for the rest of the characters. The one thing I REALLY don't like is how Al calls Edo "Ed" instead of "brother" at times. It's just not very "Al" when he does that and it makes it sound like he doesn't respect him (as an older sibling) as much.


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TheVileOne
post Apr 24 2005, 12:33 AM
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If you've been watching the series you'd notice that almost 90% of the time Al refers to Ed as "Brother."

Plus the brother thing is a Japanese language/culture thing for the most part anyway. And the culture, society in Fullmetal Alchemist is clearly and distinctly NOT Japanese.


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"Struggle is optional. Pain is inevitable."

"This is my life. I have battled and lost, struggled and won.
I have had victory and defeat, and defeat in victory.
I will never be overmatched or unprepared.
This is who I am and who I will always be…I am Chris Benoit!"
- "The Crippler" Chris Benoit
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xyzknight
post Apr 24 2005, 01:31 AM
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I've seen episodes 20,21,22 and 23 in english dub, and it's not so bad... Except Al's voice, it really sucks.
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