HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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FMA Manga Re-read It From The Beginning, Session 3, Chapter 5, (for Week Of July 25, 2010) Full Spoiler Warning!, "Ohhh, now I know," chapter 5 "Re-reading" discussions
Michiyo-
post Jul 25 2010, 05:47 AM
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The actual discussions start below. smile.gif

We'll fill out the chapter info later. Meantime, if you can help out and list entries for these chapter info for the listed categories (such as characters in this chapter, etc.) please go ahead and post!! (Except, transcripts for chapter 5, which we already have, courtesy of Causmicfire. ^^) Or, if you can think of some other interesting categories, please post and share! biggrin.gif

Or, if you have any questions for any part of chapter 5, now is the chance to post and ask us!! ^^

Or, please post your thoughts and opinions on this chapter, now that you're reading it second time! ^^

And now this thread is open to discussions and comments for re-reading of FMA manga chapter 5!! biggrin.gif


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Hagaren-Shiroi
post Jul 26 2010, 12:09 AM
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One of the saddiest FMA chamters sad.gif

At begining i thought Nina/Tucker accsident isn't important but later on it is reminded and reminded ,so it kinda annoyed
me

Also we see Ed's and his Superior relationship biggrin.gif

And 1st appearence of Scar with one memorible qoute "Alchemists who have strayed from the path of god must die"
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Jen_Elric
post Jul 26 2010, 03:03 PM
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I believe this is the first really dark chapter of the series.
Another Quote (may not be exactly right): "We're just humans, who couldn't save one little girl!!" -Ed

Also, Tucker and Nina weren't the only ones to die in this chapter. Alexander also died.


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Winry Chi
post Jul 27 2010, 06:17 PM
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Causmicfire
post Jul 27 2010, 10:39 PM
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Havoc!

More equivalent exchange. First, Ed asking Roy to point him in the right direction on doing bio-alchemy research(in return for him helping with the hijacking). Second, Ed telling Tucker why he wants to research bio-alchemy.

Funny that Tucker's choice of words are "But first you want see what's up my sleeve, first you have to show me what's up yours." Quite literally on Ed's part, eh?

The first time I read this chapter, I remember wondering why Tucker had questioned the existence of "geniuses" with his accomplishments. Definitely a bit of foreshadowing.

Things not to do if prefer not to get punched by Ed: Lump your evil self in the came category as him.

I like that we see Al's anger in this chapter, too.

It never hit me, until when I was typing up the transcript for this chapter, but Riza voicing that Tucker's chimera is the "Work of the Devil" is quite fitting. Her father didn't go half as far as Tucker, but her life probably would have been quite different if not for the array on her back.

lol @ Ed being pulled out of his slump at the words, "something so small."

I can't remember anything but shock at Scar's appearance and flipping to the next chapter, because I had to see who this guy was.


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Michiyo-
post Jul 29 2010, 06:47 AM
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The first sad and shocking chapter of the story. After Nina’s death Ed began to realize that even though he’s an alchemist, he’s still an ordinary human who isn't strong enough to save a girl.
When I first read this chapter, I didn’t expect that her tragedy will be mentioned so many times throughout the whole story. I liked that it came up in the last chapter too, when Ed spoke to the Truth and when Al told Gracia that they never forgot Nina. They wanted to avoid more death, so from that moment they decided to help other people

Oh, I found another nice comparison: at the beginning of the chapter one of the MPs said about Ed, that “He can’t be human…” And later Ed complains that he’s just a “pathetic human being”.

The chapter ends with the appearance of Scar, who hates and kills alchemists, so the readers can guess that he’ll go after Ed next.

Another thing I noticed when I opened Vol. 2: Does anyone else think that the image of Ed at the beginning of the vol. strongly resembles the panel in the last chapter, when Ed prepared for his last transmutation?


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Edamame
post Jul 29 2010, 04:25 PM
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I never realised how dark this chapter was until I read it over again. This was the one episode in the original anime that really got to me and suceeded in making me rather disturbed. I love all the little clues that Arakawa-sensei includes throughout the chapter to show us that all is not well the Tucker family. For instance, the very first thing that Edward and Alphonse learn about Mr.Tucker is that he created a chimera that talked like a human, but the only thing it uttered was I want to die, and then proceeded to starve itself to death. Already the warning bells are going off, and we get even more clues scattered throughout the chapter: 1. We learn that Mr.Tucker's wife has supposedly left him 2. Tucker has been experiencing some hard times and false starts with his current chimera work; those creepy abominations in the flacks only serve to highlight this matter. 3.His did poorly on this last evaluation and risks losing his liscence. 4. Nina is always by Alexander's side and the last image we have of the little girl and her dog before Edward realises what Tucker has done, is on page twenty-five where Nina is outside playing and a very disraught Mr.Tucker is inside a dark room-even the contrast between light and dark colours in the panels on this page tells you that something ominous is about to happen.

I think that this is the most enraged we see Edward get throughout the entirety of the manga. The biting truth in Tucker's words about toying with human lives set a fuse of unbridled anger off in Edward who is on the verge of killing the man until Alphonse steps in. We even see Alphonse on the verge of snapping, so Tucker's words must have undoubtebly hurt him as well. Sadly, Tucker's words are laced with truth as Roy admits that actions of state aclhemist are really not far off from toying with innocent human lives. One the one hand, Tucker's actions were most likely fueled by his desire to to keep his title and hold on to the prestige that the title of state alchemist bestowed him. On the other hand, one could argue that Edward and Alphonse's decision to resurrect was based fueld by pure love and the desire to be happy once again. However, there are fans who believe that the decision to resurrect their mother was none other than Edward's alone and that it was fueled initially by his own selfishness. Despite knowing the risk and the taboo, he dragged his little brother in, and still carried out the transmutation. Does anybody feel this way? Was Edward selfish to toy with human life despite being warned against it? Reading the manga again, you really begin to look at things in a whole different light.

I think that the entire episode with Nina and Mr.Tucker was really a wake-up call for the brothers. They begin to see that not all alchemists are genuinely good people- many are motivated by money, power, prestige, and their own selfish desires. Perhaps one of the saddest parts of this chapter is when Edward is sitting with his younger brother in the rain while Roy and Riza discuss the harships and the long and difficult road that lies ahead of them. While people may see alchemists as people who can perform miracles, Edward comes to the harsh realisation that alchemists are really nothing more than human beings- not gods or saints, but just flawed humans who couldn't save the life of a little girl. Another thing that really struck me about this chapter is how Edward and Alphonse are still technically children, yet will face more hardships than many of the adults in the manga. The episode with Nina and Tucker is brought up again and again over the course of the manga, so it I believe that it is one of the driving forces in the brothers' desire to continue forward until they achieve their goal.
I forgot that the chapter ends with the appearance of Scar, who appears to be on a divine mission from God to destroy all alchemists. Can't be too good for Ed! Scar really freaked me out the first time I read the manga...

Little things I liked


-I really love Ed's line on page 19: "Just try and sit on me again, you canine fiend! I, Edward Elric will fight you with my entire body and soul."

-The brief scenes of Al, Ed, and Nina playing together. Like it or not, Ed and Al are still young teens and it was really nice to see them act like kids.


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Jealous Rogo
post Jul 29 2010, 05:03 PM
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Chapter 5 seems to be something of a jumping off point for many, with alot of people citing this as the moment they jumped onto the series (I know that was the case for me at least) and I think the reason for this should be painfully obvious; this chapter is the moment the series took a look into the darker side of the FullMetal Alchemist. Yeah we got a few shades of it in Chapters 1 and 2, but here we're taken to the very edge of the insanity that Alchemy can produce... or at least that's what we think, as the series only got more and more twisted with regards to what Alchemy can do from here on.

Story wise Chapter 5 is actually pretty basic and what surprises me is that the Chapter makes you feel sorry for a character who appears on a grand total of NINE pages. Just take a second to consider that. Writers and artitsts have failed to make readers care about characters dying who appear for VOLUMES, and Arakawa has us saddened by the death of a pretty one-note character who like I said, appears for nine pages. Some of the pages with no dialogue. So why is this? Well Chapter 5 is all about the brothers, Edward in particular, seeing themselves in Nina.

Note that Ed softens up after Nina says that since her mother left and her father is always working, she's lonely. As we'll learn in future chapters, both Ed and Al can relate to this. What's interesting to note is that Al plays with Nina before Ed. Now while you could chalk this up to Al being kinder, I think it's also worth noting that a core difference between the two is that Al is a lot better at picking up emotional things than Ed. Like I said, Ed needs to have it spelled out to him before he does anything. Also anyone else find it funny dogs seem to have an affinity to Ed?

Subtext wise, we get yet more indications of the severe poverty in Ametris. We kinda got a glimpse of it in Chapter 3, but here Tucker makes it perfectly clear that losing his State Alchemist position is not an option. It's interesting to note in general actually that the only people who generally seem to be making out pretty well are soldiers and automail mechanics. Which makes sense, obviously as we'll see in the future, but for now I'm getting ahead of myself.

Interesting to note is that Tucker calls Ed a genius here, and we get a little introduction to an underlying theme in the series; there's no such thing as a genius. While they don't flat out state the fact, it's pretty clear that Tucker is a pathetic person who believes his failures are becuase he lacks talent, hence why he envies Ed. Of course the idea of the series is that you must sacrifice something to gain something; in other words nothing is free. Tucker's taunting of Ed, where he tells Ed that he is just like Tucker, and that he tried to ressurect his mother because of this, is pretty interesting themeactically as well. It's clear that despite Ed's outburst, there's some underlying truth to this. In fact we'll see time and time again, that pretty much all Alchemists in the series fall pray to this curiousity when it comes to treading lines that they shouldn't.

We also see Al warn Tucker that if he is pushed any further, he'll snap. While it's true that Al shouldn't be pushed too far... we'll see in future chapters that Al was really just making a really good threat cause... frankly Al puts up with far WORSE in future chapters and he never even gets close to snapping.

Mustang's little lecture to Ed at the end is pretty interesting. For now it just seems like Mustang is telling Ed to just get over it. but we'll learn later that is more of a reminder to Ed that he needs to keep moving forwards. Interesting is that Ed states how 'they're just humans who can't save one little girl'. Why is this interesting? Well apart from the obvious 'realising their limits' stuff, you could also interpret this a different way.

Mustang and Ed are indirectly talking about Ed and Al's journey. Ed is saying that if they can't save a little girl, how can they be expected to get their bodies back? A far greater endevour. Mustang simply tells Ed to go home, implying that he actually has no answer to this. This will lead into the next chapter or so, so I'll discuss it then.

Lastly of course we get the introduction of Scar and really, we're told very little about him. I mean we know he hates Alchemists, but we have no idea how he's killing. While we know now it's a form of Alchemy, bare in mind we'd seen a woman extend her finger nails before this so we had no idea what was going on. But he makes a dramatic impression, in a scene with one last thing I want to talk about. The fact that Nina starts crying after her father is killed. It seems that despite her father's evil actions, she still loved him deeply.

A child who loves their parent despite the fact said parent uses them and has questionable ethics? Gee THAT sounds familiar.

Chapter 5 sets up alot of themes for future chapters but mostly this chapter is just about Ed and Al getting a grim reminder of the world they live in. To me this isn't about Ed and Al finding out what evil Alchemist can commit, it's about that being reminded that not only can Alchemy produce monstrous results... but that they themselves have committed such sins as well.

Of course the idea of the sins of Alchemy would be greater explored in future chapters.


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