HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 63: The Other Side Of The Gate - Content Discussion Thread, Warning, MAJOR spoilers for the first 63 episodes & series end
Broken Chouchou
post Jun 28 2010, 01:15 PM
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QUOTE (Forsaken Love @ Jun 28 2010, 09:57 PM) *
What would it do for this version *shrug*


I dunno, symbolising their undying bond? XD This being their first journey apart, they're still somewhat together in heart, as brothers? They're both setting out in different directions on their own journeys, and they probably won't see eachother for a while. But they have a common determination to make the world a better place. They have a common goal (and agreement) that they're still working on, together, even being separated.

Good enough reason for me ^^ I really just think it would be a nice and nostalgic tribute to the first series.


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Forsaken Love
post Jun 28 2010, 01:40 PM
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*doesnt like the first series-is biasd* for me i dont think thats a good enough reason, it makes no scense, in the first series that signified something fundermental they were going on a journey to be reunited, here they are going their own seperate ways of their own accord, so it seems weird they're longing for each other after they just left, and in the manga/brotherhood they speand large parts of the later story apart from each other anyway so yehhh feels like they can let each other go a bit now, *shrug* I duno I just think it would be a awkward way to end it, when i read it edwin and almei relationships felt more important at this point, i think it would be nice to have ed on the train maybe lookin out and then fade into a parallel of Al going in the opposite direction, symbolising their like-mindedness and brotherly bond, but the hand thing seems too overdone and un-subtle for this storyline


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zonkiethegreat
post Jun 28 2010, 01:54 PM
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QUOTE (Flamez_Freak @ Jun 28 2010, 02:29 PM) *
QUOTE (zonkiethegreat @ Jun 29 2010, 12:11 AM) *
And what exactly did the "truth" mean when he told Edward that "You have defeated me!"....maybe that got a little lost in translation??? In the manga it made a little more sense like "you figured it out!" . *shrugs*

All in all, I will be bawling next week.


yes , if i remember well . That is exactly what tRUTH said to ED . . .


Which one?? "You defeated me!" or "You figured it out"???


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Flamez_Freak
post Jun 28 2010, 02:05 PM
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Truth said . . "You've defeated me " . . Or somethin similar to that . But i remember him use somethin on those lines . So the translations are correct . . Don't worry .

Edit , got it . . Its on page 49 . . Truth says . . "you have beaten TRUTH " smile.gif


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Broken Chouchou
post Jun 28 2010, 02:09 PM
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@Forsaken love - I didn't mean it like they were longing for eachother, of course that wouldn't feel right, I guess I put it badly. I mean more like that they're going "Yush, we will do this, we'll make it!". I see what you mean about it possibly being a bit obvious, but as I said (or insinuated rather), it's more about the tribute than anything else; I'm not really that picky regarding the details about it. It'd be a nice way to end it for me, even though what you suggests sounds good too, and in all honesty maybe would be more appropriate.


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zonkiethegreat
post Jun 28 2010, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (Flamez_Freak @ Jun 28 2010, 05:05 PM) *
Truth said . . "You've defeated me " . . Or somethin similar to that . But i remember him use somethin on those lines . So the translations are correct . . Don't worry .


Yeah I just checked onemanga, and your right. Now, what exactly does he mean by that?? I hope I don't sound idiotic asking this, but I don't totally get it. How can you defeat "Truth"??? Isn't Truth supposed to symbolize God or your own "personal god" entity???



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Flamez_Freak
post Jun 28 2010, 02:19 PM
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I think . . .
Firstly . . Truth didn't expect edward to sacrifice anythin . . He didn't expect edward to get out of the situation he was stuck in . But to his surprise , edward managed to get there , and sacrificed somethin which was really important to him . .And got out of the situation pretty comfortably .
2ndly . . i guess that "after all . . I'm a human being " comment worked too . . Edward didn't get conceited . . Although he had the power , he didn't forget the fact that he was a mere mortal . . . .
This is just an assumption , based on my understanding of the plot . . I hope i could make myself clear . .


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Vagrant
post Jun 28 2010, 06:11 PM
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I was irked by a few of the changes. Kind of confused about what they did change or add generally. We'll see the full extent next ep, I suppose.

Did they explain a few things in more detail, like with Father and Truth? If so, that's maybe a good change. Although it all still confuses me. >_<

Hoho disintegrating like Wrath bugged the hell out of me. He died of wounds like a human originally, no?
And the fact it seemed to be trying to make us feel empathy for Father was nonsense. (like Envy's stretched out crying death scene)



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AXavierB
post Jun 28 2010, 06:45 PM
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Hohenheim got all gray and crusty just like Bradley in the manga as well. Apparently that's how all human-based homunculi/living philosopher's stones die.

And how was it nonsense to make an effort to allow the viewer to empathize with Father? Villains who are completely unsympathetic and do everything just to be eeeevil are the most boring kind.


ETA:
@Vagrant - (replying to his post below) Sympathy and empathy are two different things. We don't necessarily have to feel sorry for him, we're just meant to understand him.
Reason for edit: Merged one line post/moved closer to the post it's replying to and added an indicator showing which post content/comment the reply comment is referring to so that readers will have better idea. ^^


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Vagrant
post Jun 28 2010, 07:55 PM
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The lines on Hohenheim's face in the manga look less like alchemical deconstruction and more like general dirt and stuff like on Roy's face.

The problem is that Father is totally unsympathetic. To act like we're supposed to feel sorry for someone who killed millions and was just power hungry...Because all he wanted was freedom - it doesn't ring true.


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JackDawkins
post Jun 28 2010, 08:01 PM
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Okay, I’m trying to figure out everyone who was calling out Ed’s name when he was in front of the Gate (and sorry if anyone else already did this, I skimmed through and didn't see anything).

Izumi
Mustang
Hawkeye…?
Um…Darius?
Armstrong
Ling
Mei
I can’t figure out this last one…it’s a girl...maybe? I don’t even have a guess as to who…

And after a short pause, Winry.

Am I right on any of those or completely off the mark?
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ChaosRogue
post Jun 28 2010, 08:41 PM
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^ @JackDawkins - About the voices calling Ed's name: Second to last one, before Winry, is probably Pinako.
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Winry Chan
post Jun 29 2010, 01:49 AM
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Referring to the voices calling Ed's name - as soon as I heard them and read the subtitles (I watched with Chinese subtitles), I was hoping for one more voice... but it didn't come! sad.gif PLEASE TELL ME I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO WANTED TO HEAR AL SAYING NII-SAN THERE!!

As for the Father unsympathetic part, I was crying a bit then. Not because I believe he should continue on living, but because after being so close to what he wanted, he gets sent back to Truth and is reverted back to his original form as a small black... thing. (The Pokémon Gastly comes to mind.) And then he gets pulled back to a place to which he never wants to return. If the story were based around Father instead of the Elric brothers, would you still call him unsympathetic?

Actually, this is one of the reasons I love this manga/anime. Arakawa Hiromu created an antagonist that isn't just one-sided - she made him whole by having his fear of going back to Truth come out, thus emotionally moving some readers/viewers. After all, even in our own world, there isn't one person who is hated/disrespected by the entire Earth population. (You can say a lot about Hitler, but his followers respected him, and even historians acknowledge him.) My point being that even though Father was a mass-murderer and power-hungry, there was more than that to his character.

On another note, as for the translations, remember these are translated by fans, in fact by different people entirely. What someone translated for the manga, someone else might have translated slightly differently for the anime. Even in the same medium, you can have one episode that is translated to another language by entirely different people, and get entirely different sentence structure, and with that, meaning. For example, has anyone ever tried using an online translator and translated a phrase back and forth between two different languages repeatedly? (or it might be completely different in that BONES had a completely different line in the script)

All in all, I was happy with this episode. I wish the last episode's animation would be a bit better, but I particularly like the shot of Al in his real body looking down at May hugging him. The slightly messy hair, complete with shading, and the shadows on his face were a nice little difference from the manga (I'm not saying the manga didn't have that; it's just BONES added more to that frame.) And as for being emotionally moved by Father's demise, his voice actor was the one who made me cry. If it were a lower pitch, I don't think I would have. The high pitch of Father's true form's scream made me think of a child (which made me think Father is Truth's child) who was about to achieve their dream, only to have their parent say they didn't support them and drag them back home.

... ooh! And I like Al's hair and eye color. Having them identical to Ed's hair and eye color made me happy. I never liked how Al's color was different in the first anime. After all, Al's ethnically Xerxesian, too.

... Sorry about the long post..


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AXavierB
post Jun 29 2010, 02:25 AM
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Don't apologize, I love when people care enough to write a long, detailed pose. =D

I agree with you about Father. The way he was crying and begging Truth to give him a second chance brought a tear to my eye.


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Vagrant
post Jun 29 2010, 03:12 AM
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Did you just try and argue that Hitler was in any way sympathetic to anyone? Did that actually just happen?

Okay, let's roll with the uh...Hitler comparison for a second. Mass murderer and all around arsehole who wanted some "freedom" (Father for himself, Hitler for Germany after what WW1 did to the country) and will kill anyone to get it.
The freedom part does not make the overall package sympathetic or provoke empathy - because of the whole mass murder and arsehole parts.

It arguably adds some depth to Father, but that doesn't make him any more of a sympathetic villain.

What Father got in the manga was justice. He got close, then he got it all taken away and was judged by the Truth for his power hungry arseholiness - like the humans he looked down upon. It's a moment of "Good guys win! Suck it!" not "Aww. It's a shame everyone in Amestris didn't die."

I wouldn't have felt any sympathy for him had he been the protagonist, for the same reason I wouldn't have read the series if Ed and Al's solution to their body problems involved wiping out entire countries. It might just make them a bit too unlikeable.

That's why I think the direction of the scene in the gate, or Hohenheim staring wistfully at the ground having flashbacks - was nonsense.


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