HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Chapter 108, The Final Chapter "Regular" Discussion Thread For First Time Readers (and Others), WARNING Major spoilers beyond page 1!!
Icy12
post Jun 11 2010, 07:16 PM
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I have a question about the final EdWin scene....and I'm sooo sorry if it has already been asked

But during the proposal scene, were Ed and Winry already dating? Or is this really the first time since he came back two years ago that they expressed their feelings for one another?

I initially thought they were already dating because she was wearing the same jacket he wore when the Ed and Al reunited with her earlier (I saw it as more of a symbolic/subtle sign). But what makes me second guess is the fact that she seemed so embarrassed with the "I'll give you everything, no 90%, no 80%!" Also, he was rather nervous when doing his super dorky cute proposal that maybe it was actually just him admitting that he liked her. But then again, it's also normal for some boyfriends to be nervous when they are proposing anyways, right?

I have been going back and forth on this small detail. O_o


I was just wondering what other people think...
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spectator
post Jun 11 2010, 08:21 PM
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After taking a few days of calming myself down for feeling of lack of royai, I finally found some possible reasons why Arakawa sensei made royai's closure, very loose.

It's some sort of freedom, like setting Roy and Riza free from their guilt. They now have a choice of doing what they want without being bound by their past. Helping in Ishval is one of the processes to achieve that goal. After all the turmoil, both of them would have found that simple thing such as being able to have each other's company is already enough. (They might have married, just not shown from that picture). It may not be romantic, but their love to each other is undeniable.

Although, I still very much like to see them building a family together. Now that Arakawa sensei has finished her job, it's the Royai fans turn to tie that knot. biggrin.gif



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'Prince of Dawn' Fanfiction - Envoy of Love: The True Prince

Eastern Headquarters' Attraction - Something fun to read.

CoS and FMA1 Fanfiction - Right person, wrong place, wrong time
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tigerchic121
post Jun 11 2010, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE (Icy12 @ Jun 11 2010, 09:16 PM) *
I have a question about the final EdWin scene....and I'm sooo sorry if it has already been asked

But during the proposal scene, were Ed and Winry already dating? Or is this really the first time since he came back two years ago that they expressed their feelings for one another?

I initially thought they were already dating because she was wearing the same jacket he wore when the Ed and Al reunited with her earlier (I saw it as more of a symbolic/subtle sign). But what makes me second guess is the fact that she seemed so embarrassed with the "I'll give you everything, no 90%, no 80%!" Also, he was rather nervous when doing his super dorky cute proposal that maybe it was actually just him admitting that he liked her. But then again, it's also normal for some boyfriends to be nervous when they are proposing anyways, right?

I have been going back and forth on this small detail. O_o


I was just wondering what other people think...

I'm pretty sure that they have been going out at this point. I don't know but I feel like they were dating, or at least something like that in their (or Edwards) little bumbling awkward way.


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FMAobsessed
post Jun 11 2010, 10:05 PM
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@spectator: You know that Royai fans are already writing wedding fanfics. : )

@sentintal: I hope I spelled your username right. But your idea about how the philosopher's stone was passed down is awesome. I hadn't even thought of that. But it makes so much sense.

I at first thought that Roy and Riza didn't even make an appearance in the chapter when I read a few spoilers. But I am satisfied with their ending. It would have been nice to see a reunion, but with them I feel like things don't need to be said.

And I think it was a nice touch that for a brief period of time Ed and Al went on their own ways. They are close, but they do have different personalities. And even brothers as close as the Elrics will have to be seperated for periods of time when they are adults.
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penguintruth
post Jun 11 2010, 10:21 PM
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I thought it was a damn good ending.

Not perfect, mind you, but really good. Better than I was expecting, actually.

And I felt good about it. I actually LIKED the ending of the first TV series and the movie, and I still felt really good about this one. It left me with a smile on my face, but still thinking about the characters and their lives, and their struggles and what they meant.

I feel really positive about it and about the whole experience of the manga itself. It was an excellent series.

I know I'm not really being very detailed in how I feel about it, and the particulars, but I just finished reading it a moment ago and plan to re-read it a few times to absorb it all better.

But so far, I feel really happy about it. Arakawa has my support with whatever she does next. I think we should all read whatever she puts out next.


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Fullmetal Alchemist is over! Thank you, Hiromu Arakawa! ;_;
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Toby-Chan
post Jun 11 2010, 10:52 PM
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Scar. Ponytail.

I am disappoint.




Everything else was lovely though. XD


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allykatty1
post Jun 12 2010, 01:35 AM
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QUOTE (Icy12 @ Jun 11 2010, 06:16 PM) *
But during the proposal scene, were Ed and Winry already dating? Or is this really the first time since he came back two years ago that they expressed their feelings for one another?

You know, I have been wondering the exact same thing! XD However, aside from the jacket (unless he just outgrew it and passed it on to her... I mean, really... she's wearing his clothes, lol! XD), I just realized something else that convinces me that they have in fact been dating and that it was indeed a proposal of sorts (or rather, I really think it was a "promise to propose" - after all, he's going to be away for a while and I assume the tradition of engagement rings exists in FMA-world, so THAT still needs taking care of - formally, at least, when he returns).

Anyway, the thing I realized is this: 95% of fans who read the scene INSTANTLY took it as a proposal. And I'm sure not all of them were rabid EdWin fans to begin with. Being the master of subtlety that Arakawa is, I think it's best that we all trust our instincts on this scene.

Also, as bold and brash as Ed can be, I doubt even he would initiate a dating relationship with something as extreme as "I'll give you half of my life, so give me half of your life!" We all know Winry would love him regardless of any potential creepiness/possessiveness, but geez! XD

Here's something else I'm wondering: does the final scene in the "Rain" OP of Brotherhood take place before or after Ed's little declaration? happy.gif Ever since I first saw the OP, I thought Ed's legs under the covers looked longer than they should be, so it could be after marriage a few years later. But then, he also still looks pretty young in the face, so I want to think it's before he goes West (he seems pretty tall before then, anyway). There's also only one pillow, indicating that it's technically still only Ed's own bed, not one he's really sharing yet. So I think those interim two years were spent rebuilding their house... which Winry may have visited quite a bit! XD I don't know what else she'd be doing at their house so early in the morning, watching Ed sleep, if they WEREN'T already involved somehow. happy.gif
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penguintruth
post Jun 12 2010, 01:52 AM
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Isn't it funny how many similarities the ending of the manga has with the ending of the first TV series?

- A karmic fate for the main villain
- An Edward who can't use alchemy.
- An Alphonse returned to his body.
- A brigadier general Roy
- A child homunculus still alive
- General Grumman in a higher position (the first series ends with him helping to oversee the transfer of power, though it's quick enough to miss if you blink)


Probably just coincidences, right?


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Fullmetal Alchemist is over! Thank you, Hiromu Arakawa! ;_;
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Tombow
post Jun 12 2010, 03:40 AM
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QUOTE (allykatty1 @ Jun 12 2010, 04:35 AM) *
Anyway, the thing I realized is this: 95% of fans who read the scene INSTANTLY took it as a proposal. And I'm sure not all of them were rabid EdWin fans to begin with. Being the master of subtlety that Arakawa is, I think it's best that we all trust our instincts on this scene.

It is a proposal "for the future." Here is the thing... there is one "keyword" in their conversation there that if not properly transformed into English that conversation's original "nuance" in Japanese may get "lost in translation," in my humble opinion, and that word is... "yoyaku-suru" and it usually means "reserve (or 'making reservations')" but in English, for the case of calling Doctor's office and set the date for your next visit etc. like in this case with Ed making a visit to Winry for the repair service for his automail, in English we don't say "we make reservation" but instead we say "we make an appointment," and hence some translator may automatically translate this part to "appointment" but.... the original Japanese word used here means "reserve" and if this is not reflected properly in the translation, in my opinion, the original "nuance" of the conversation, as in, what Arakawa-sensei probably meant to mean, would probably be get lost... that is, 1. Ed wants to reserve half of Winry's life... aka... "proposal for the future" It's a proposal, but it's for the future time period, and 2. (Ed probably has been thinking about this for sometime, and my guess is that probably thought thousand times in his head "how to bring this subject" to Winry,) and at the train station, as Ed is about to depart from Winry for a long period, catching her saying "reserve me," Ed used that and blurted out his future proposal, like, "speaking of reserving you, can I uh.... can I reserve half of your life?" ... and that's how I took this scene. ^^ Could you go read my "reference" translation of that scene here (scroll down to "Ed and Winry at the train station" and highlight to read under the Spoiler covers) and see if you can get what I mean? smile.gif


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Sal_san
post Jun 12 2010, 08:01 AM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Jun 12 2010, 02:52 AM) *
Isn't it funny how many similarities the ending of the manga has with the ending of the first TV series?

- A karmic fate for the main villain
- An Edward who can't use alchemy.
- An Alphonse returned to his body.
- A brigadier general Roy
- A child homunculus still alive
- General Grumman in a higher position (the first series ends with him helping to oversee the transfer of power, though it's quick enough to miss if you blink)


Probably just coincidences, right?


Holy... you're right. O.o

Maybe she took her ending ideas from there? ^^;


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Kirara
post Jun 12 2010, 08:16 AM
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QUOTE (Sal_san @ Jun 12 2010, 09:01 AM) *
Holy... you're right. O.o

Maybe she took her ending ideas from there? ^^;


Um no she had her general ending from the beginning and asked the first anime staff specifically to make a different ending. But anyways while there are similarities there are major differences too. Mainly in how the characters approached certain things and in the end many of the messages are quite different.

Still I would say the most common thing about both endings (speaking of the TV series not the movie) is how in both series even after Dante/Father is defeated there is still a lot of work to be done to set things right in the world. Things just did not magically fix themselves.
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FailToImpress
post Jun 12 2010, 10:24 AM
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After reading the full chapter for the first time last night... I've calmed down a bit now. I really need to read it a good few times again to make it sink in, I think.

-Ed's fight with Father was awesome. I loved that he used his own fists rather than alchemy. There was something really satisfying about it.
-Greed's scenes were equally good. I came across a spoiler the other day on a site my friend was looking at while waiting and it mentioned greed and the philosopher's stone. I was annoyed at the time but upon reading I was still shocked.
-The whole beginning of the chapter with the fight scenes are amazing, the dialogue, and the drawings are superb. I expecially loved the Gate scene with 'god'.

-And so, back to the real world. This is when the tears started. sleep.gif
-I knew that somehow, Hoho would would try to give up his life for Al's, and I really thought that this was going to be the case when he offered... at the time it seemed like the obvious option, and the only option.
-Oh Ed... You can be so stubborn. But, I admire his selflessness and the fact that he, and only he, will be responsible for what happens to his brother. I must say I've always admired that about him.
-Sad to see Hoho saying things like "You finally called me Dad" ...I'm a sucker for emotional family stuff.
-Ed wiping tears away T_T
-I love that he acknowledges everyone who have helped him fight and get through everything. I think the flashbacks to Roy and Riza were a really nice touch.
-When Ed started drawing the circle I was so shocked, my heart was pounding! At first I thought it might be like series 1 ending, but then I remembered him saying he can't bear to leave Al alone. When Ed said "Here comes the Fullmetal alchemist's final transmutation", it never really registered at the time, but that line makes a lot of sense.
-I would never in a million years guessed that Ed would give up his alchemy ability. That really was something.
-I started sobbing when Ed met Al at the Gate... even after reading it a second time just now it's making me well up! Of all the things to come out of this story; this is the most gratifying.

-Apple pie! I was so happy to see Al mention Apple pie.
-Grumman as Fuhrer. wow. I love that he's still a jovial old man, good to see him again.
-Not sure about the Selim thing... but I think we have to pander to Mrs Bradley's losses and just accept it. He is cute though.
-Gracia and Elysia! seeing them just reminded me of Hughes, and how he would have loved to see everything coming to a close. T_T And Al talking about Nina, it happened so long ago but they both won't forget about it.
-LOVED Ed and Winry at the end. I'm not their biggest fan, but I do appreciate a bit of EdxWin. It was so them as well.

I loved it all, I was very happy with how things turned out. I still can't quite believe it's all over, though.
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allykatty1
post Jun 12 2010, 12:06 PM
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QUOTE (Tombow @ Jun 12 2010, 02:40 AM) *
It's a proposal, but it's for the future time period, and 2. (Ed probably has been thinking about this for sometime, and my guess is that probably thought thousand times in his head "how to bring this subject" to Winry,) and at the train station, as Ed is about to depart from Winry for a long period, catching her saying "reserve me," Ed used that and blurted out his future proposal, like, "speaking of reserving you, can I uh.... can I reserve half of your life?" ... and that's how I took this scene.

Exactly! I had phrased it as a "promise to propose," but what you said here is exactly what I meant and was how I took the scene. smile.gif
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Tombow
post Jun 12 2010, 12:39 PM
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<Program Note>

QUOTE (Misty- Nala @ Jun 12 2010, 01:57 PM) *
So, the manga has ended now. I have always been more fan of the first anime than manga and the brotherhood. Yet, I had always thought that the end of the first series was too sad and not to my liking. Now, after reading the last chapter, I think of the first anime even more fondly. The end of the manga wasn't bad by no means, it was only too happy. I had thought that someone would die or lose something important but, as many have complained, it was very similar to the end of Harry Potter. The happy ending doesn't seem to suit FMA. This was a series about sacrifices and the harsh reality of the world. Yet, as I had feared, the inner theme of the true meaning of family must have been the aim.

@Misty- Nala, tigerchic121, and Kirara - Since you guys are doing awesome discussions on the FMA managa ending, perfect for "the other thread", I moved you guys' posts with discussions on FMA manga ending to FMA manga ending thread. Hope you don't mind. ^^


Btw, Misty- Nala, others can probably explain this better, but yes, Mustang got his sight back. But that came with the obligations as a part of condition of him using Marcoh's Philosopher's Stone, i.e. him devoting part of his life/and the new policy of Amestris for recovery of Ishval. In a way that's so fitting in my opinion for Mustang who now lives to right the wrong done by him and others to the country. And, as for Havoc, it could be that he is learning how to use his automail legs? (...actually, I haven't finished reading the whole chapter, so I may be wrong on this. ^^)


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Kaori Ayanami
post Jun 12 2010, 07:37 PM
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I've just checked the Mangastream scanlation, and I'm sure now: Scar is wearing the same kind of clothes he was wearing back in the war.
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