HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
full metal alchemist
full metal alchemist
 



Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Episode 59: Lost Light - Content Discussion Thread, Warning, possible spoilers for the first 59 episodes
Chiyo
post May 29 2010, 10:51 AM
Post #1


Moderator Emeritus
******

Group: Members
Posts: 6,073
Joined: 27-January 05
From: a land called Honah Lee
Member No.: 6,466
Gender: Not Telling



Talk-back/content discussion for English dubbed episode on Adult Swim starts on page 4. smile.gif


Please post the discussions on the content of episode 59 here.
This thread is declared as a Spoiler zone for the content of the first 59 episodes.

Please don't ask for links on where to watch this episode, raw or subbed. Discussions on 'where to watch' belong in Where/How to Watch FMA Series 2. Don't post screencaps unless highlighting something important about the content of the episode. Just like on in most area's of the board, avoid one line posts, spam of any kind or conversations between two members.

Screenshots: please see amestris_star's post.

Summary: Roy ultimately refuses to perform a human transmutation, disappointing the gold-toothed doctor. One of the chimera disables the doctor as May arrives and helps take on the Fuhrer candidates. Roy, Scar, and May fight the Fuhrer candidates, and Roy makes it to Riza. May spots the liquid vial of Philosopher's Stone the doctor dropped, but decides to help Riza instead, using retanjutsu to stop her bleeding. Fuhrer King Bradley arrives, having swam through a drainpipe after falling into the moat. Then Pride arrives. Wrath springs into action, using his swords to nail Roy down into the doctor's alchemy array. Pride uses the gold-toothed doctor and the alchemy circle to force Roy to be a sacrifice. May notices that the source of the weirdness she's been sensing is beneath them, and Scar uses his arm to create a hole. Roy is sent through the Gate and ends up in Father's lair, where Ed discovers his sight has been taken from him. Above, Scar engages in combat with Wrath. May decends to Father's lair and notices that Alphonse hasn't regained consciousness. At the Gate, Alphonse meets his human body, but is dismayed at how malnourished it is. He decides to return without his body, but promises to return. In Father's lair, Alphonse regains consciousness. Father is happy that he has all five sacrifices now. - © Penguintruth, taken with permission from his blog.


*WARNING*

Please follow these simple rules;

-Do not spam.
-Add spoiler tags to spoilers
-Do not go off topic
-Do not fight

Spam means one line posts that contain little content. "OMG that ep was so cool" would be an example of spam. If you enjoyed the episode please specify what you enjoyed so much, was there anything you didn't like?

Spoilers mean anything you know will happen in upcoming episodes. Not everybody reads the manga and you may reveal something they didn't know. For future episode discussion, please go to the relevant topic. If you are unsure how to use spoiler tags, please ask.

Going off topic means discussing a characters actions outside of the episode, or talking about the artwork, or upcoming episodes etc. I know this can happen easily so don't be upset if I move your posts or guide you in the right direction. Double check the forum for the right place to take your post, or if required, start a new topic.

Everybody can voice their opinion, and nobody is correct just as nobody is incorrect. Because none of you will spam (right?) people will justify why they didn't like something. You are welcome to say "well I like that part because..." but you CAN NOT say "no you are wrong because..."


--------------------

Avatar & Sig by me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies
penguintruth
post May 30 2010, 01:44 AM
Post #2


State Alchemist (Major)
****

Group: Members
Posts: 540
Joined: 10-July 08
From: Here
Member No.: 60,921
Gender: Male



My initial thoughts:

- A cliffhanger in FMA not paying off? HUGE SHOCK.
- Gotta love the way that little glass container of Philosopher's Stone bounces around
- Bradley is the all-time endurance champion
- Oh hey, let's stand around talking to each other!
- Heeeeeereeeee's Selim! I mean, Pride!
- How does Wrath and Pride just know how to do that right away?
- Yeah, because it totally makes sense that you can FORCE a human transmutation.
- Roy sees what you did there, Father... OH WAIT.
- All right, we get it, you're all angry and useless.
- Scar vs Bradley time!
- Al, give your body a break. Poor thing's been waiting around forever, it's not his fault he's all skin and bones.

Ah, next week a certain thing is put into motion!


--------------------

Fullmetal Alchemist is over! Thank you, Hiromu Arakawa! ;_;
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
His Name is Unkn...
post May 30 2010, 02:33 PM
Post #3


Apprentice
**

Group: Members
Posts: 194
Joined: 10-September 06
From: Lynchburg, VA
Member No.: 40,795
Gender: Male



QUOTE (penguintruth @ May 30 2010, 04:44 AM) *
My initial thoughts:

- A cliffhanger in FMA not paying off? HUGE SHOCK.
- Gotta love the way that little glass container of Philosopher's Stone bounces around


You honestly don't see the sacrifice of Mustang's sight as a cliff-hanger paying off? If anything, this episode demonstrates to me that keeping true to your principles does not always ensure a happy ending. Sure, Mustang refused the transmutation, and for a moment it appeared that Hawkeye would be rescued with no consequence, but his nobility was not without consequence.

Much as Ed's conviction to not kill nearly cost him his life (and in fact, reduced his own lifespan), Mustang's conflict to maintain his pyramid scheme came back to haunt him. He was forced to do the transmutation against his will and as punishment was consigned to a life of darkness.

That's pretty severe; to me, this is not Arakawa 'pulling punches;' I mean, sure, she could have made the repercussions more severe (read, Hawkeye's death), but who's to say there will not be consequences even if Roy does succeed (as alluded to by Riza during her retelling of the Ishvalan war)? The cliff-hanger was left on Roy's decision to do human transmutation; the result was that he was forced to commit the act whether he decided to nor. That's pretty messed up, or as Ed put it, unfair, not to mention mentally traumatic for Mustang.

I'm not arguing against you 100% here - if you read my previous post you'll see I view Hawkeye's insta-rescue by Mei Chan as a bit of a deus ex machina (I mean, it makes sense in a way, but I feel it does cheapen the drama a bit):

Having said that, I think it's a bit unfair to say this cliff hanger didn't pay off. Just because a cliff hanger doesn't lead to even more angst or death doesn't mean it's a letdown. Take the Hohenheim soul tornado episode. That was a huge cliff-hanger, and the reversal not only made sense, it also gave context and depth to just how important Hohenheim's absence from Trisha and the boys really was. It was not just a noble fight against Father which motivated him, but a desire to save his wife and sons (and all of Armestris) from being consumed in an agony of whirling souls. Not only does this knowledge strengthen Hohenheim as a hero, but it also makes sense in light of his own trauma in Xerxes, and serves as vindication for his earlier naivete to predict and prevent the dwarf in the flasks diabolical schemes. Sure it's a narrative undo in certain respects, but it also serves as dramatic character development.

Take Claudius' opinion that anime1 handled cliff-hangers more effectively as a counter-point to my argument. In his own words: "They had shock as well as change." I would agree with this, only disputing the implication that Arakawa's twists lack change...they possess just as much change as, say, Al's bomb/philosopher's stone switch, just not on a physical level. Restraint of bloodlust does not equate to lack of change. The change is simply internalized, or to put it another way, the characters are developed.

Even with this distinction, some may view this kind of twist as expected and insufficient. I respect that, while still asserting that the real power of the manga over the anime (to me) derives from Arakawa's overall character development. Some things are cliche, but the author's ability - ultimately - to turn the expected into the unexpected while also illuminating character's internal conflicts and producing real character change is what makes FMA exceptional. Roy had to refuse, in a way, because it was essential for Bradley's character to have that moment when he was genuinely surprised that Mustang would not commit human transmutation for someone he loved. This shocked the homunculus, giving him new perspective, and even respect, for the 'foolish struggle' of the humans he opposed. That one moment where the Fuhrer looks up and actually smiles as he says: "When you humans don't do as expected, it really makes me mad," is a perfect representation of both his homunculus and human tendencies, and is itself and unexpected response. Thus, both characters are enriched (the change) while still maintaining the original shock value of the cliff hanger (Mustang does human transmutation, and loses his eyesight in the bargain). Indeed, the fact that someone could be 'judged' by the truth for an act he did not commit willingly is itself another plot point which is sure to factor into Ed's ultimate confrontation with the Truth and possibly in the explanation of what Father is and why he seeks to establish his own Law of the universe.

Looking forward to your response. It makes for a much richer discussion when people honestly voice their opinions and disagreements biggrin.gif

Oh, and about that philosopher's stone bouncing around - I always thought of it as a reference to The Temple of Doom gag where Indiana Jones is desperately trying to get his hands on the antidote for his poison as the nightclub erupts into fighting. Arakawa strikes me as the type who would enjoy Indy humor. laugh.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Claudius
post May 31 2010, 05:08 AM
Post #4


Apprentice
**

Group: Members
Posts: 218
Joined: 14-November 06
Member No.: 42,805



QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ May 30 2010, 01:33 PM) *
Take Claudius' opinion that anime1 handled cliff-hangers more effectively as a counter-point to my argument. In his own words: "They had shock as well as change." I would agree with this, only disputing the implication that Arakawa's twists lack change...they possess just as much change as, say, Al's bomb/philosopher's stone switch, just not on a physical level. Restraint of bloodlust does not equate to lack of change. The change is simply internalized, or to put it another way, the characters are developed.

Actually, I meant it your way.
We may be disagreement, but one of the major points in FMA, IMO, is that the greatest scars are not the ones you bear on your body. They are the ones you carry in your mind/heart/soul.
Violent injury! Losing your eyesight! Getting crippled! Losing a limb! Getting impaled or shot! Oh well.
Taking a life, transmuting somebody, chucking away your ideals, feeling responsible for death, being dead...Somebody kill me please! I'm on my knees, pretty pretty please! Kill me! I wanna die! Put a bullet in my he-ee-ea-ea-ead!
Al would rather wish he stay in his armoured body than have his search bring more death. Roy and Riza got out of Ishval physically in one piece but are so traumatized by their experiences they wish punishment. Jean Havoc loses the use of his legs (Fat chance on knowing the love of a woman!) and yet rather then becoming bitter, he enthusiastically wants to help Roy more than ever! So to these characters, physical injury is nothing to emotional injury.
And both my Anime1 examples attest to that. These cliffhangers were resolved with lucky breaks. But what keeps these lucky breaks from becoming dues ex machinas is that these escapes come with a price that marks the characters' souls.
Al becoming a PS means that he survived only through the sacrifice of a thousand souls. That is a burden Al cannot bear (better he exploded instead) which gives him this 'death wish' mentality that screws Dante's plans. As for Ed, he was dead for a minute, no two ways about that. That's a traumatic feeling in many ways (Buffy the Vampire Slayer used this plot point rather effectively), one not easily to be forgotten or overcome (I could argue that this experience, plus the experiences of killing his Earth-Prime self to get back & the mental blow-out of going through the Gate three times meant that Ed began his exile freakin' bonkers!). You could add Anime1Roy's situation with Bradley to this. He's gonna die, but Selim comes to the rescue...and Selim dies because of it. Not quite the lucky break Roy wanted (especially since it allows him to fulfill the vengeance for Hughes' death that his manga counterpart avoided thanks to the lucky break of Riza's death threat and Envy's suicide). Better Roy lost both eyes and became crippled than ruin his life and this child's.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
- Chiyo   Episode 59: Lost Light - Content Discussion Thread   May 29 2010, 10:51 AM
- - Michiyo-   - Shocked Dr Goldtooth is shocked. - Here comes th...   May 30 2010, 01:40 AM
- - Gimpyhair   - I loved most of royai scenes: Riza's voice a...   May 30 2010, 01:42 AM
|- - Bag of Magic Food   QUOTE (penguintruth @ May 30 2010, 03:44 ...   May 30 2010, 02:58 AM
||- - Claudius   QUOTE (Bag of Magic Food @ May 30 2010, 01...   May 30 2010, 03:32 AM
- - amestris_star   http://randomc.net/2010/05/30/fullmetal-al...broth...   May 30 2010, 02:55 AM
- - deet-tastic   Been waiting for this episode for forever. My tho...   May 30 2010, 08:13 AM
|- - TheSentinel   QUOTE (deet-tastic @ May 30 2010, 11...   May 30 2010, 08:46 AM
- - EveningAlchemist   Longer post, awesome episode. This episode ooz...   May 30 2010, 08:52 AM
- - deet-tastic   QUOTE (TheSentinel @ May 30 2010, 09:46 A...   May 30 2010, 09:14 AM
|- - His Name is Unknown   Wrath fan here: Really, almost everything about F...   May 30 2010, 12:42 PM
- - deet-tastic   ^everything you just said. Wrath was animated s...   May 30 2010, 01:23 PM
- - penguintruth   My point about it not paying off, much in the way ...   May 30 2010, 03:16 PM
|- - His Name is Unknown   QUOTE (penguintruth @ May 30 2010, 06:16 ...   May 30 2010, 06:36 PM
|- - allykatty1   QUOTE (His Name is Unknown @ May 30 2010, 05...   Jun 1 2010, 03:21 AM
|- - Claudius   QUOTE (allykatty1 @ Jun 1 2010, 02:21 AM)...   Jun 1 2010, 09:05 AM
|- - allykatty1   QUOTE (Claudius @ Jun 1 2010, 08:05 AM) Q...   Jun 2 2010, 02:06 AM
|- - penguintruth   QUOTE (Claudius @ Jun 1 2010, 12:05 PM) Q...   Jun 4 2010, 04:01 PM
- - deet-tastic   ^ I'm about to start re-reading the whole mang...   May 30 2010, 08:40 PM
- - cherry-chan. :D   Overall, I'd say this was a great episode. I w...   May 30 2010, 11:11 PM
- - Vagrant   Art and animation looked awesome to me. Except for...   May 31 2010, 01:18 AM
- - deet-tastic   ^probably poor translation. My friend read one whe...   May 31 2010, 01:51 AM
- - Chiyo   It has been a while since I voiced my thoughts on ...   May 31 2010, 05:01 AM
- - ShadowCat17   btw, never, ever watch the Guguru subs. The reason...   May 31 2010, 11:45 AM
|- - TheSentinel   QUOTE (ShadowCat17 @ May 31 2010, 02:45 P...   May 31 2010, 05:42 PM
- - FailToImpress   QUOTE (ShadowCat17 @ May 31 2010, 07:45 P...   May 31 2010, 01:48 PM
- - Hyperthia   I loved this episode so much The HUG! Like......   May 31 2010, 02:49 PM
- - deet-tastic   ^ 102 pretty much DID just come out That's wh...   May 31 2010, 04:22 PM
- - Vlyse   Err plothole? Or maybe Scar just hasn't figure...   May 31 2010, 06:09 PM
- - Kaori Ayanami   Eclipse just released this episode. At last. T^T Y...   May 31 2010, 06:15 PM
- - Trakonda   I've must been watching one too many Youtube P...   May 31 2010, 06:54 PM
- - sidekick.kep37   QUOTE (ShadowCat17 @ May 31 2010, 01:45 P...   May 31 2010, 06:58 PM
- - zonkiethegreat   ^^ YES! I agree...Roy's sudden blindness r...   May 31 2010, 07:59 PM
- - Bag of Magic Food   "Clearly going blind" in the opening? I...   May 31 2010, 08:57 PM
- - Aazadan   I liked the shot of Mustangs gate, much clearer th...   May 31 2010, 10:45 PM
- - Flamez_Freak   pretty good episode....with great animation and de...   Jun 1 2010, 12:13 AM
- - Broken Chouchou   Decent episode. While I thought some parts were gr...   Jun 1 2010, 04:24 AM
- - _Jelly   Speaking of Scar and Wrath's stare off... HAH...   Jun 1 2010, 05:23 AM
- - Broken Chouchou   I don't think the lack of emotion comes from k...   Jun 1 2010, 05:42 AM
|- - Flamez_Freak   QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Jun 1 2010, 07:1...   Jun 1 2010, 12:07 PM
- - deet-tastic   That's what I've been trying to understand...   Jun 1 2010, 10:31 AM
|- - Bag of Magic Food   QUOTE (deet-tastic @ Jun 1 2010, 12...   Jun 1 2010, 11:14 AM
- - Forsaken Love   I LOVED this episode. So much royai! <3 *_*...   Jun 1 2010, 10:39 AM
- - deet-tastic   ^I rarely say anything outload when watching stuff...   Jun 1 2010, 03:16 PM
- - Kasumisty   I liked this episode. While quality may be not to...   Jun 2 2010, 09:08 AM
- - Radadinator   Man, this episode was just like a series of Crowni...   Jun 4 2010, 12:39 PM
- - Fawfulhasfury   For people criticizing the Scar Vs. Wrath stare-of...   Jun 4 2010, 01:17 PM
- - kateyliz12   - Question about Al's body in Episode 59, Warn...   Jul 28 2011, 12:30 PM
|- - JPPCouto   QUOTE (kateyliz12 @ Jul 28 2011, 08:30 PM...   Aug 1 2011, 05:24 AM
- - A Pierrot's Aria   Welcome to the board, kateyliz12!! There...   Jul 28 2011, 02:14 PM
- - F3aRô   Al didn't take his body back due to he wanted ...   Jul 28 2011, 05:05 PM
- - Vlyse   The "going back will bring despair and ruin...   Aug 1 2011, 04:05 AM
- - Michiyo-   Please add FMA:B English dubbed episode 59 (on CN ...   Aug 20 2011, 01:23 PM
- - Tombow   For anyone who missed this episode, it will be on ...   Nov 3 2012, 06:24 PM
- - Tombow   For anyone who missed this episode, it will be on ...   Jan 4 2014, 06:10 PM


Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 1st July 2016 - 09:14 PM



Copyright ©2003-2004 PhoenixNetworks, LLC. All rights reserved.
Copyright Notice. Privacy policy. Acceptable Use Policy. Terms of Service.
Page Generation Time: 0.0655 seconds.
Currently Selected Stylesheet: css/default.css