HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 54: Beyond The Inferno - Content Discussion Thread, Warning, possible spoilers for the first 54 episodes
Rating 5 V
Mr. Deathy
post Apr 25 2010, 09:17 AM
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This has to be one of the best executed episodes in the series. The pacing was perfect honestly and the animation was superb throughout.

All of the Mustang and Envy stuff was really well done. I don't see how they could've done it better.

I'm glad they didn't rush the emotional scenes for Envy's death but I'm surprised just how long they let it go for seeing as how the show is usually paced really quickly, but it is a good thing. I guess the way they used the credits for the Hohenheim scene let them spend more time for Envy's scenes. I actually expected it to be this episode the Hohenheim scene was moved to but I was surprised it used up the credits. I bet they'll do that again in the last few eps since they'll need every second of animation time they can get.

Anyway 10/10 for the episode for me.
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TheSentinel
post Apr 25 2010, 09:42 AM
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Good episode. I really liked how the animation turned out for when Hawkeye was unloading into Envy. The part where Envy wings her and she promptly catches her falling rifle, flips it around, and promptly knee-caps him is one my favorite moments of badassery.

Only beef with the episode is that is very much in two pieces. The conclusion of the whole Mustang's wrath on Envy followed by a return the Armstrongs vs. Sloth.

The whole revenge angle to Mustang's dealings with the Homunculi makes sense and I loved the last couple epsiodes / parts in the manga. That said, from a pure realistic / pragmatic stand point, I would have much preferred for Dr. Marcoh to kill of Envy a number of episodes / issues ago.

Now just gotta wait for the translation to see how I feel about the dialogue when they're all trying to talk Mustang down.


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Bag of Magic Foo...
post Apr 25 2010, 10:46 AM
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I thought Homunculus's voice was more entertaining in the flashback where he was in the flask. Maybe that's the idea: He's ripped so many emotions out of himself to turn into his children, there's not much left, and so Father is the most boring person in the world now. Of course, Envy's voice was also even funnier when he got turned little, so maybe it's just that voice filter that's fun to listen to. Speaking of, I think I would have preferred to see what would become of little Envy if he were taken to Xing...

I also wonder what the English dub will do with Father's voice. In the original Japanese he had the same voice as the narrator, but the English narrator would probably be even less fitting. Though if they wanted the same kind of voice, they could just get Father Cornello's actor stoned drunk, I think that would work...
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A Pierrot's Aria
post Apr 25 2010, 10:50 AM
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I thought this episode was brilliant- one of the best yet!

The interaction between Roy and Riza was great. I loved the facial expressions; especially when Roy looked so pained over his memories and the decision to back down. The scream/yell when he finally gave up and let off one last flame was a really nice touch and it actually bought a tear to my eye because it sounded so defeated and pained.

The part that made me want to cry the most, though --and I'm surprising myself by saying this-- was the part with Envy. I can't stand him yet his tears made me feel so sorry for him. It was actually quite heart-wrenching with all the crying and screaming; he seemed so desperate.

I loved the music too! Although one slight thing that irritates me about it is the fact that a lot of the time they play the same track, but it's played with different instruments/different tempo etc. I wish they would come up with more that's completely new. Having said that, it still sounded great! : )


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Megabyte117
post Apr 25 2010, 10:50 AM
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Great episode. Despite being previously upset when Bones removed the "Burn my back" scene from the Ishbal flashback episode, it seems to fit even more here. Especially where Mustang says something along the lines of - "I've forced you to go through painful emotions again" (subs). Izumi's entrance at the end was spectacular as well.

By the way, does anyone know the name of the song that plays during Hughes' montage?
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Chiyo
post Apr 25 2010, 10:58 AM
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Before we get too off topic, please carry on the discussion about VA's (voice actors) at the relevant thread here. I am moving a couple of your posts there.


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FailToImpress
post Apr 25 2010, 11:18 AM
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Gahhh, so emotional! One of the best episodes I've seen in a while!
Wow, after last episode I didn't think that Roy could look any more pissed off, boy I was wrong.

I really liked the addition of Riza showing him her back, nicely done. Although I did find it a bit strange that during that scene, Roy had NO reaction to it whatsoever lmao. It just seemed like he was thinking... oh, cool.

The ending was a bit random, I wonder why they decided to change it.
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Mr. Deathy
post Apr 25 2010, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE (FailToImpress @ Apr 25 2010, 11:18 AM) *
The ending was a bit random, I wonder why they decided to change it.


It's kind of obvious why they did it. They're clearly going to struggle to cram all the scenes they have left from the manga into the last 9 episodes. Using the animation space where the ending video usually is to add in another scene to the episode is a way to cram even more into their alloted time per episode.

Also the Father-Hohenheim scene really needed to be an end of ep cliffhanger, yet the Izumi scene works well as one too, so this way they could have both, without trying to cram the Father-Hohenheim scene after the credits (which there would've been no time for).

I expect them to use this method again in some of the coming eps.
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Flamez_Freak
post Apr 25 2010, 12:09 PM
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Watched the raw and i have to admit that it was a great episode . . . And just so that you guys know , there was a rumour today , that eclipse has dropped all its shows because they lost their main translator . . . But now i have a confirmation from their irc , that eclipse is droppin all the shows which it was planning to do this season . . . . And will only be doing fma brotherhood and kaichou wa maid sama . . . This season . . .


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Jealous Rogo
post Apr 25 2010, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (Vicious74 @ Apr 25 2010, 09:15 AM) *
I don't think Arakawa's intent was for us to feel sorry for him (I mean he's still a complete monster) but simply to show how pathetic and humiliated he was in the end.


Not to get off topic, because I think it's relevant to this episode, but isn't there a quote floating around from Arakawa from soem interview saying that her intention was to make Envy suffer for killing Hughes. Which would also explain the slightly over the top one sided fight with him being killed over and over in hideous pain. If someone could find that quote it'd be great, otherwise I'm seeming rather silly here.

Oh and to add to the reasons Envy chose to kill himself - he was dying anyway. When Riza goes to shoot him, Scar stops her and tells her that there's no point, as Envy hasn't got any time left. I think also that Envy's suicide, along with him respectfully calling Edward by his name, something he'd never done til that point, were signs of Envy sort of maturing and finally standing up and being defiant in the face of death, even if it was just in robbing his enemies of the satisfaction of killing him.

I'd just like to say that Envy is probably one of the most complex characters in the series, and an example of why the Manga so far outshine the Anime. Anime1Envy was okay, but literally all he did was go on and on about his daddy issues and how much he hated Hohenheim, whereas as Manga Envy... he's a bit more complex. He's the sort of person that we've all probably met at some point, someone who taunts and bullies to make up for their own satisfaction. Thus he is a more rounded and well thought out character.

Wow I've made alot of comments on a thread for an episode I haven't actually seen yet, I hope I've not gone off topic. If so I do apologise, I'm trying to keep my comments relevent to the episode.



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EveningAlchemist
post Apr 25 2010, 02:05 PM
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It may just be because I'm having a sick day, but I just burst into tears when they showed Hughes in Roy's memories. The emotion was phenomenal in this episode! I wasn't expecting to feel this strongly about everything, especially Hughes since I've watched him die in anime1, the manga, and now Brotherhood, but obviously he is still missed.

I think the music played a big part in creating the mood, since it was moody itself and outrightly dramatic. Animation was on the ball too, and seeing Roy just torture Envy gave me shivers. Roy has passion and ambition, but now we know the flip-side of that can be devastating. No one knows that more than Riza. When I found out in the manga that she would kill herself if she killed Roy, I was astounded at how deep their relationship went (romantic or not) and I think Roy let go of revenge because he didn't want another death of someone he loved, even if he was dead himself. That's deep stuff right there. I think even I'm a little "envious"!

I loved Edward's face when he looked at Envy. It almost seems... compassionate? I think this is really when we understand why Envy is Envy. And it really is sad, how he is jealous of humans but can never be one, but I'm glad he's gone now.

I can't believe this... I literally have to mop up my tears from the keyboard...

On the contrast, Olivier ordering the Central troops around, and Alex with his sparkles of Armstrong made me very happy. Awesome music for that scene. laugh.gif

Wow, they actually didn't show the normal visuals for the end credits... That's alright with me!


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deet-tastic
post Apr 25 2010, 02:35 PM
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I've been waiting for this episode since November '09 when I first was introduced to fma and read this chapter for the first time.
It did not dissapoint. Not one bit. The animation in the first half was just.. ah *fangasm*

My one and only complaint, was that there seemed to be a flaw in Olivier's animation for about 5 seconds. When it first showed her.. I dunno. It seemed a bit off.



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FailToImpress
post Apr 25 2010, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Apr 25 2010, 08:00 PM) *
It's kind of obvious why they did it. They're clearly going to struggle to cram all the scenes they have left from the manga into the last 9 episodes. Using the animation space where the ending video usually is to add in another scene to the episode is a way to cram even more into their alloted time per episode.

Also the Father-Hohenheim scene really needed to be an end of ep cliffhanger, yet the Izumi scene works well as one too, so this way they could have both, without trying to cram the Father-Hohenheim scene after the credits (which there would've been no time for).

I expect them to use this method again in some of the coming eps.


I kind of thought that after I thought about it more. I'm not complaining anyway, this ending sequence isn't really all that interesting.

EveningAlchemist: ahh that's what I forgot to include in my post! The Hughes montage was so sad, I wasn't expecting it so it caught me a bit off guard. The episode in itself was enough to make me teary eyed, that just pushed it over the edge!
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Neurotripsy
post Apr 25 2010, 04:42 PM
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As an Envy fan I was dreading this episode & it was pretty heart-wrenching to watch, but I'm so relieved they managed to do chapter 95 justice (I was afraid it would be sped through like a lot of other scenes, but surprisingly they let the whole thing play out perfectly). Top-notch work from all the seiyuu as usual, especially Takayama. smile.gif


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Goral
post Apr 26 2010, 01:38 AM
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Everything below is my opinion and I won't add "IMO" in every sentence. Feel free to disagree. And I prefer to refer to Envy as a "she" but I will refer to that worm as "he" as well".

And so here we are, the most annoying chapter of FMA (94th) has finally been animated. I didn't like it in the manga and since FMA:B is several times worse than manga I hated this episode. There were only 5 good things in it: Izumi's entrance, topless Riza, Roy's anger (before everything became pink and everyone loved one another and wanted to hug), Armstrong's and Hohenheim's performances. The rest made me want to puke or at best extremely annoyed me.
Firstly, Olivier annoyed me as always acting all tough and all. The whole "you're under my command now" and soldiers instantly listening to her was so unconvincing that I can't believe Arakawa did that. "Defend yourselves and don't be killed". No s*it Sherlock. And I should start with the fact they didn't shoot her on sight (even though they were ordered to) but waited until she could talk to them and until dolls came.
Secondly, the thing with Roy was utterly stupid. From berserk mode Roy went to hugging everyone, saying that shrimp make him realize his mistake (yeah, right...), etc. That was completely out of his character.

To be more specific:

1) Roy killed dozens of innocent people (and who knows if not hundreds, with his destructive power I wouldn't be surprised), woman and children also (whether directly or not, doesn't matter) as well as Ishbalans that only defended themselves from aggressors and had no chance against Amestris' superior power (and he knew it). He didn't kill Envy however, because it was, eh... wrong?! So mass murderer, trash and war criminal in one person was of more worth than dozens of Ishbalans? It certainly looks that way. Mustang literally made people s*it themselves and he didn't even budge then but continued to do a human barbecue. There was no sign of emotion when he fried people, even the ones that had no strength to fight back. What's more a while later he cheerfully talked with Hughes! Years later he flirted with girls and acted casually as if nothing happened, he wasn't a psycho and didn't kill people randomly. Why would killing Envy change him? Let's be serious here.

2) I don't know what Roy was waiting for with killing Envy. Before Riza or Ed could do anything he would have already burned him. He also should have done that before Riza put a gun into his head, it looked like he was waiting for her to do it. He also could kill Envy without hurting Ed (he would only warm up his automail a little).

3) Scar was preaching him, now that's a good one. He and Scar are completely different and their revenge was on a different scale too. Scar hated (and still hates but he is over with killing) ALL Amestrians. Whether they were doctors (that saved his brethren lives) or children (Ed, Al) it didn't make a difference to him. His desire for revenge had no end since there were many Ishbalan murderers. Mustang however hated only ONE person. Chain of hatred would end where it started with one death. He would kill Envy and it would be THE END. And no, I won't believe that it could change him in any way. If he wasn't changed for worse after killing innocent PEOPLE (not some worms, mass murderes at that) he would most certainly not be changed by killing the biggest son-of-a-**ore that existed. He was a guy in his thirties, people don't change easily at that age. And we've seen he could flirt, joke and live a normal life after what he had done in Ishbal, if Envy's death would change him that would mean Ishvalans were worse trash to him than Envy, i.e. he was SOF** himself and a racist.

4) To Riza torturing Envy was OK (she let Mustang burn Envy's eyes, tongue, etc.) but killing him no. She wanted to kill him herself though.

5) In the anime Mustang knew exactly when Envy would be left with one life and even made a special combo with his last attack and took a while with it, groaning as if he wanted to take a dump. Last explosion also seemed bigger then previous ones (again suggesting he knew it would be enough). That didn't make sense at all. Nice Bones. You've managed to screw up a story that was already screwed up beyond saving. That's an achievement.

6) As Hawthorn wrote in the manga thread, Envy not killing Riza the first time they've met in the tunnels was strange. She loved to kill people in that manner but somehow it made sense to her to go with Riza and wait until they've met Mustang? We've seen that Mustang was capable of doing very small burns so he could probably neutralize Envy before she could do anything once they've met (and it was rather inevitable). And if she wanted to have Riza as a hostage it would be easier to her to absorb her (and not killing her by the way) thus preventing Roy from attacking (just like she did with Ed).

4/10 for the episode, and it's me being generous and taking into account Arakawa having a kid and all.


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