Joined: 27-January 05
From: a land called Honah Lee
Member No.: 6,466
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Talk-back/content discussion for English dubbed episode on Adult Swim starts on page 5.
Please post the discussions on the content of episode 54 here. This thread is declared as a Spoiler zone for the content of the first 54 episodes.
Please don't ask for links on where to watch this episode, raw or subbed. Discussions on 'where to watch' belong in Where/How to Watch FMA Series 2. Don't post screencaps unless highlighting something important about the content of the episode. Just like on in most area's of the board, avoid one line posts, spam of any kind or conversations between two members.
I will not tolerate anyone ignoring the rules. I will make these clear and simple;
-Do not spam. -Add spoiler tags to spoilers -Do not go off topic -Do not fight
Spam means one line posts that contain little content. "OMG that ep was so cool" would be an example of spam. If you enjoyed the episode please specify what you enjoyed so much, was there anything you didn't like?
Spoilers mean anything you know will happen in upcoming episodes. Not everybody reads the manga and you may reveal something they didn't know. For future episode discussion, please go to the relevant topic. If you are unsure how to use spoiler tags, please ask.
Going off topic means discussing a characters actions outside of the episode, or talking about the artwork, or upcoming episodes etc. I know this can happen easily so don't be upset if I move your posts or guide you in the right direction. Double check the forum for the right place to take your post.
Everybody can voice their opinion, and nobody is correct just as nobody is incorrect. Because none of you will spam (right?) people will justify why they didn't like something. You are welcome to say "well I like that part because..." but you CAN NOT say "no you are wrong because..."
I don't like to start a thread so negatively but I want to stop these things before they happen. Please ensure this is the only time I have to mention these rules.
Joined: 4-April 09
From: United States
Member No.: 67,611
When you're in the military, you HAVE NO CHOICE. You can't just quit the military either. He was part of the military, he'd just become a state alchemist and not ONCE did I say he was young! WTF And I never once said it was an excuse for murder. The military says jump and you say how high. That's the way it is. It is NO different than the US military fighting to protect it's people. That doesn't mean it's RIGHT nor is it justified. I don't like it, I think it's wrong, but Mustang had no choice. He was part of the Isvhal extermination whether he liked it or not. He was a soldier and he had a responsibility to the military. It's no different than a US soldier being ordered to kill whatever countries we've been at war with.
Joined: 13-May 08
Member No.: 59,458
Let me rephrase then, you were making excuses for him when he fried innocent people. To me it's trying to justify him but if you prefer I can call it "making excuses". You were trying to invalidate my argument by making his war crime less serious. "He was made to do it". "He didn't enjoy it". "He was in the military". Seriously, how would you name it if not "justifying"? - You killed him. - He pulled his gun first. I would call it justifying.
- You killed them. - I was ordered to. Likewise.
Anyway, what difference does it make that he was in a military? It's better if thousands of people die then me, right? I can give a hand in a genocide if I'm being ordered to, right? I know soldier cannot resign without consequences and I know that trial would wait for him. The problem was it was clear who was aggressor and who was a victim here. Who had superior power and who didn't stand a chance. Roy was kicking the lying (on the ground). And Alex Armstrong somehow survived after disobeying orders. He even became a major.
As for you not saying he was young. Is he old according to you or what? I don't get it.
QUOTE (Kyelinn @ Apr 26 2010, 02:53 PM)
As for Ishval, Roy had only just become a state alchemist and only just began working for the military if I'm not mistaken.
We know Roy is now 30, in Ishbal he was about 10 years younger. Why did you even mention it if not to emphasize the fact he was still a young rookie? Either you mentioned him because you wanted to make your post longer or it was supposed to be an argument that his lack of experience led to a series of wrong decisions. Or could you elaborate and explain what you meant?
I'm not thinking poorly of FMA, only this particular part. It should be obvious by now, I was active in manga thread after all and most of the time praised Arakawa. The only time I did the opposite was in the 94th thread. And I'm not causing trouble but expressing my opinion. Since you're replying to my post, I'm replying to yours. You don't want me to reply then don't reply, easy as that.
And yes, Mustang is a character that Arakawa can do whatever she desires with it. But there is sth called consistency. If Mustang changed after killing Envy it would mean Arakawa was being inconsistent and everything we knew about him before was gibberish. All in all Mustang did not kill Envy and we have no means to know "what would happen if". But since Scar somehow changed for the better what makes you think that Mustang would not? And let me remind you that Scar killed not one but several people out of his revenge. PEOPLE not worms (unless you're saying that Envy was a human). Mustang wouldn't even kill his own species but some animal that had to be put down anyway.
Killing innocent people and not changing for worse and Scar changing for better only support my opinion. Against it is that Ed (that is a kid and didn't experience what Mustang did), Scar (whose case I've already discussed about) and Riza feared it would change him and we might think that it was Arakawa's words themselves (and by that I mean her personal belief not only character's). But as I said, it would only show Arakawa's inconsistency.
@Jealous Rogo Teenagers are not children? O_O Maybe 17-19 not (although I could argue with that) but below?
Sure he has to pay, war is bad, etc., but that is beyond my point which is: Mustang didn't become a bad person. He wants to pay for what he had done and that's honourable of him but what I was trying to say was that killing Envy wouldn't change him since killing innocent people didn't change him. And why would one act scratch everything what he's done so far? There are no perfect people. People feel anger. I don't see a problem with Mustang killing Envy and still becoming a good leader, there is no conflict here.
Joined: 13-August 09
Member No.: 70,575
Please... Let's take into account that Arakawa is Japanese, and so are her "target" readers, so to speak. They're mostly NOT Christian, not even Western-minded, so don't try to judge them by standards they don't even think about. And, no, I am not justifying him (or Arakawa). I'm explaining the situation.
QUOTE (Goral @ Apr 26 2010, 09:31 AM)
Anyway, what difference does it make that he was in a military? It's better if thousands of people die then me, right? I can give a hand in a genocide if I'm being ordered to, right?
Then again, it's not about what it's right, but about what he believes it's right. And the society he lives in, of course. Genocide has happened in real world thanks to effed up thinkings, after all.
If Mustang changed after killing Envy it would mean Arakawa was being inconsistent and everything we knew about him before was gibberish.
It's not about killing Envy or not. It's about letting himself be driven by his hatred. So, if he accidentally killed Envy by stomping his boot on a little too hard, it wouldn't matter. XD
He wants to pay for what he had done and that's honourable of him but what I was trying to say was that killing Envy wouldn't change him since killing innocent people didn't change him.
We've been reading different mangas (and watching different animes) then. He was changed. Hell, even by the "His battlefield, once more" gaiden he was already scarred.
Yeah, he laughed with Hughes during the war. They were both goofing around to forget about the horrid thing they were doing. If you read/watched the entire scene you would have noticed that. He did flirt normally after that... for information and cover-up. To sum it up, he may have recovered somewhat, but he never forgets about it.
Kyelinn, please, don't bring up the American troops topic. We are not all American. Thank you in advance.