HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Chapter 103 "Regular" Discussion Thread For First Time Readers (and Others), No future chapter spoilers here, please. :)
Katya Martin
post Jan 10 2010, 02:05 PM
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I think it's a matter of adrenaline; he can't afford to be panicking, so he isn't. If his situation hasn't improved after the upcoming battle, I think we'll see some "Oh crap I CAN'T SEE what do I do now," but I think he'll still handle it well overall.


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Alphonsefan27
post Jan 10 2010, 03:46 PM
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(My fist post! Yay! biggrin.gif) I read this chapter a few hours ago and am still thinking about it. During this chapter, Edward and Mustang have a short conversation on page eleven. "'You figure it out, Fullmetal?' 'When I was sucked into the transmutation, he said 'I hoped we could avoid this, but were out of options' 'So it passed a risk to them to huh?'" After Edward and Mustang said this, once again (it happened in 102 I think) Pride's left side of his chin looks like it was breaking. Considering Pride is the original Homonculus so he would be the first to break down. Perhaps if Father fails, all the Homonuculi will all die? I'm not sure though, this is just fan-speculation.

In the forth opening, for a brief few seconds, Al's body looked distressed and shocked, along with a Philosopher's Stone being destroyed by Pride. I don't remember who said this (of if anyone did at all) that the chance of Pride going to the gate along with Mustang are big. Think about it, just how did Pride get to the lair? I don't know if the openings are completely canon, but this could hint to future chapters maybe? Maybe what Pride lost (considering he's not human, the payment toll could be different, idk) was his ability with the shadow things. (did Arakawa ever name those?)

Well that's just what I think. I'd like to hear some opinions on it. If the opening/endings are canon and accurate, then the hands at the end of the 4th ending were Ed's, Win's, and Al's. Does that mean a happy ending? My head hurts from thinking too much. D:


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Hagaren_4ever
post Jan 10 2010, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (Alphonsefan27 @ Jan 10 2010, 05:46 PM) *
(My fist post! Yay! biggrin.gif) I read this chapter a few hours ago and am still thinking about it. During this chapter, Edward and Mustang have a short conversation on page eleven. "'You figure it out, Fullmetal?' 'When I was sucked into the transmutation, he said 'I hoped we could avoid this, but were out of options' 'So it passed a risk to them to huh?'" After Edward and Mustang said this, once again (it happened in 102 I think) Pride's left side of his chin looks like it was breaking. Considering Pride is the original Homonculus so he would be the first to break down. Perhaps if Father fails, all the Homonuculi will all die? I'm not sure though, this is just fan-speculation.

In the forth opening, for a brief few seconds, Al's body looked distressed and shocked, along with a Philosopher's Stone being destroyed by Pride. I don't remember who said this (of if anyone did at all) that the chance of Pride going to the gate along with Mustang are big. Think about it, just how did Pride get to the lair? I don't know if the openings are completely canon, but this could hint to future chapters maybe? Maybe what Pride lost (considering he's not human, the payment toll could be different, idk) was his ability with the shadow things. (did Arakawa ever name those?)

Well that's just what I think. I'd like to hear some opinions on it. If the opening/endings are canon and accurate, then the hands at the end of the 4th ending were Ed's, Win's, and Al's. Does that mean a happy ending? My head hurts from thinking too much. D:


First of all, welcome aboard. Second of all, that was a very well-thought out and plausible hypothesis, in my opinion. I especially like the "If father fails, the homunculi die." I would like to say more specifically though, that I have always assumed that if Father were to DIE that the homunculi would follow. Which would really suck, because that would mean that they were killing horrific and ridiculously powerful monsters off one by one when they could have just killed Father from the start, and saved a lot of time. XD


By the way, I haven't been keeping up with the story up-to-date very well, perhaps, but is Pride the last homunculous? All the rest are dead, right?


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Tombow
post Jan 10 2010, 04:51 PM
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QUOTE (Hagaren_4ever @ Jan 10 2010, 07:43 PM) *
By the way, I haven't been keeping up with the story up-to-date very well, perhaps, but is Pride the last homunculous? All the rest are dead, right?

(Assuming the question is "Is Pride the last Homunculous alive?" As in, still out there and kicking and running around... ^^ ) No, Wrath is not dead yet, and GreedLing is still very much alive. ^^ ...thinks any others.... I feel like missing more.. XD



And, big welcome to Alphonsefan27 and everyone who had recently joined our discussions! ^^

I now have the whole chapter raw, thanks to awesome and thoughtful members, and I'm going to sit down and read it as soon as I finish other "errands". ^^


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RoyxRizaFan4ever
post Jan 10 2010, 05:00 PM
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Juu-ust read the chapter. Pride is falling apart, Roy seems to be recovering nicely from the shock of being completely blind, and Scar can now destroy and reconstruct, huh? Wonder how that'll workout...but the revelation about Scar only seems to increase the likelihood that he'll die in my mind. :/
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Alphonsefan27
post Jan 10 2010, 05:18 PM
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Thank you for the welcomes, I know a lot of FMA from re-reading the series several times. smile.gif

The last Homonculus? I thought he was the first because of this: http://www.mangareader.net/116-5256-39/ful...chapter-70.html
I couldn't remember that that too, if it weren't for it being recently adapted by Brotherhood. You have a good point, if they tried so hard to take out each sin one by one, then to just kill Father and all of them die would have been waited time. .

What I meant if the whole plan of turning the country into a philosopher stone failed, maybe the Homonuculi would die? Maybe they have a time limit? That wouldn't be likely, since they lived for centuries. Thanks to Arakawa, lots of fan-speculation became confirmed by Ed in the recent chapter, but Ed left some important questions for us to ask. *moans* It's so complicated, but that is one good thing about FMA, right? It makes you think. Ed was wondering about why they had to wait till this "promised day" when they could have just grabbed five curious alchemists on the street and made them do the transmutation. Maybe they have all have a connection? But they didn't even know that Hohenheim was Ed's father when Ed met Father, or Madam Christmas was Mustang's adoptive mother. (vol.21) What do you think? (I feel like a FMA nerd for knowing some of these things right on the spot)


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Kaori Ayanami
post Jan 10 2010, 06:32 PM
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Mmm, the lines I took interest in turned out to be somewhat different in the raw.

* Scar's line in the last bubble on the third from last page. Some kanji are tricky, thus I copy them and the given readings:
少し前まで己れ自身も想像していなかった
Sukoshi mae made ore jishin mo souzou shite inakatta
Till a little while ago, even myself I had no idea (about how to activate the construction arm, I suppose).

* Brosh conversation:
Woman (she uses a "wa"): You got the place alright, eh, sargent Brosh?
Brosh: Yes! It was because 2nd. Lt. Ross's voice was audible on the radio! (A supposed dead's voice, audible for everyone listening the radio? Now that's strategy XD)
Brosh: The reason is that I told the Central soldiers outside that a terrorist inside may be an acquaintance of mine.
Brosh: Then it went "go convince them" "if it doesn't go smoothly, go sound out their battle power inside the office".
Ross: I wonder if you can imagine the circumstances that drew in Mustang's faction.
Brosh: Nope... As till a moment ago I was anti-Mustang by inclination... *Sowy* (XDD)
(The rest is pretty much the same).

As for Father's "belly" thing (his words are "hara no naka"), I think here it means "his core". Or as Jim's Breen dictionary puts it, "heart of hearts".

Warning: I did these translations as well as I could, but I cannot guarantee them to be flawless (at all), so please take them with a pinch of salt. Thanks.
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Mr. Deathy
post Jan 10 2010, 11:49 PM
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I just thought of something....if Scar used his reconstruction army on Wrath...would that count as human transmutation and pull him into the gate?
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Katya Martin
post Jan 11 2010, 07:45 AM
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That's an interesting question. He hasn't been using it on Wrath per se; he's been using it on the ground. But if he did... We haven't really heard anything about human transmutation with alkahestry. I don't know if it would send him to the gate or not.


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fantacy alchamis...
post Jan 11 2010, 08:12 AM
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Not a bat chapter but I desperately want to know what happened with Pride and Roy-san in the gate, oh well I suppose I will have to wait NOOOO!java script:add_smilie(":blowup:","smid_102")

QUOTE (Goral @ Jan 11 2010, 04:10 AM) *
QUOTE (Claudius @ Jan 7 2010, 12:16 PM) *
Glad to see I was right about Roy's endurance. As I said before, the scars to his heart & mind (the Ishval massacre, Hughes' death) completely outweigh any physical injury. (...)

Or he has realized that it could be much worse, after all even as a blind man he can still have kids with Riza (it's an euphemism) ;P. And who would want to execute a blind man (in case Mustang's plan succeeded)?


If his plan succeeds wouldn't he be at the top anyway (I think most of the top brass have been killed anyway), but I like to think Olivia will take it from him by force hehehe

well I hope they all get what they wanted in terms of how father puts it
Izumi (having children)
Al (his body) I do have my doubts about this one though
Ed (his arm and leg back)
Roy (his eyesight) although the loss of eyesight is ironic (look at previous anime and the fact that he plays with fire) to me laugh.gif




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TheSentinel
post Jan 11 2010, 08:30 AM
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QUOTE (Alphonsefan27 @ Jan 10 2010, 05:46 PM) *
During this chapter, Edward and Mustang have a short conversation on page eleven. "'You figure it out, Fullmetal?' 'When I was sucked into the transmutation, he said 'I hoped we could avoid this, but were out of options' 'So it passed a risk to them to huh?'" After Edward and Mustang said this, once again (it happened in 102 I think) Pride's left side of his chin looks like it was breaking. Considering Pride is the original Homonculus so he would be the first to break down. Perhaps if Father fails, all the Homonuculi will all die? I'm not sure though, this is just fan-speculation.


Its good to see Mustang has re-focused enough to useful. An interesting question is why the Pride, Dr. Goldtooth, and Mustang transmutation was such a risk. While he may not contribute anything physically to the fight, I believe Mustang will provide some kind of direction, assistance... as others have stated he wasn't made Colonel for his alchemy alone.

Interestingly enough loosing his sight may make him more dangerous over all. If his plan didn't go according to plan he could always use his alchemy to save the day (saving Hawkeye and Fuery at the tower). Now he doesn't have that option so his planning has to be even more thorough. On a side note at least his compatriots won't have to worry about him involving himself directly.

--

Wrath remains one of the more interesting characters, at face value he is one of the simplest of characters (a soldier following orders). However, he has little quirks that show up every once and a while that surprise both sides. Arakawa might just choose to never explain those, leave it up to everyone's own opinion.


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Sannom
post Jan 11 2010, 10:50 AM
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QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Jan 10 2010, 11:49 PM) *
I just thought of something....if Scar used his reconstruction army on Wrath...would that count as human transmutation and pull him into the gate?


Well, his human decomposition can already be considered as human transmutation, so no I don't think he would be taken to the gate. Just like May isn't taken to the gate each time she uses Rentanjutsu.
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Anomia Grey
post Jan 11 2010, 11:22 AM
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QUOTE (Sannom @ Jan 11 2010, 11:50 AM) *
QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Jan 10 2010, 11:49 PM) *
I just thought of something....if Scar used his reconstruction army on Wrath...would that count as human transmutation and pull him into the gate?


Well, his human decomposition can already be considered as human transmutation, so no I don't think he would be taken to the gate. Just like May isn't taken to the gate each time she uses Rentanjutsu.


I'm not quite sure it works like that, doesn't Kimbley also turn humans into bombs using Renkinjutsu? (Or is that only in the first series?) I think decomposing the matter of a human body doesn't trigger the Doors to be opened, it's fiddling with the soul, or the connection between the body and the soul.

You do have a BIG point though - Rentanjutsu has nothing to do with the gate!

I'm becoming increasingly confused as to why the Gate is even there... Which brings us back to the new OP and its crumbling gate- maybe the final battle will change Amestrian alchemy in more ways than just the consequences of defeating Father...

QUOTE
Think about it, just how did Pride get to the lair? I don't know if the openings are completely canon, but this could hint to future chapters maybe? Maybe what Pride lost (considering he's not human, the payment toll could be different, idk) was his ability with the shadow things. (did Arakawa ever name those?)


I thought that Pride went through the gate in the same way that Ling did when Ed opened the Doors to get out of Gluttony's stomach... alternatively, he could have done it the way Envy did, by giving up some of his PS, which renders him rather weak - I assumed he couldn't attack because of the lack of shadows in the alternative reality Father created? (Man does it sound stupid now that I think about it...)



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FMA's entry on TV Tropes' Better Than It Sounds page:

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Military specialist searches for a magic rock recipe to get his brother out of a can. In one version of the story, the rock is their father, in the other version the rock is us.
Or: Children see a Thing Man Was Not Meant To Know, run around country looking for another one.
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Disasterpiece
post Jan 11 2010, 01:51 PM
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That manga was win

Scar can now kick arse.

Just hope there's a way for Roy's eyesight to return D=


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Ropespinner
post Jan 11 2010, 01:59 PM
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@Anomia Grey: Kimbley transmuting humans into explosives was first anime only.

It appears that deconstructing humans Scar-style, healing wounds or creating half-human chimeras does not count as human transmutation, whereas trying to bring back a dead person or completely de- and reconstructing yourself counts. I suspect that with the latter, transmuting the soul is included, and that would be why it "counts". (Or maybe what Ed did in chapter 53 was practically trying to "raise himself from the dead", I mean using the same kind of transmutation that the brothers used trying to bring Trisha back, except that it "worked" since Ed wasn't dead in the first place?)

Also, I don't know how relevant exactly this is, but I have a theory about when people gain the True Knowledge (and become usable as human sacrifices) when brought to the Doors, and when they don't. We know that the Doors have been used to "teleport" people a couple of times, and there haven't been any mentions of knowledge-gaining then: Ed, Ling and Envy went through the Doors in chapter 53, and Ed, Al and Izumi a couple of chapters ago. Whereas Hohenheim being in the centre of the Xerxes transmutation, Izumi trying to bring her child back, Ed and Al trying to bring Trisha back and Pride forcing Roy to open the Doors made those five confirmed human sacrifices and gave them the Knowledge.

I think that the difference is blood. The Homunculus used Hohenheim's blood to open the Doors during the Xerxes transmutation. Ed, Al and Izumi used their blood when trying to raise dead people. Roy's hands were bleeding on the transmutation circle when Pride forced him to do human transmutation. So my theory is that people see the Truth (and need to pay a toll for seeing it (Hoho's case is presumably slightly different because some of the souls of the Xerxese people could be used as a toll instead of a body part)) when they use their blood for the human transmutation. In the "teleportation" transmutations, no blood was used and no knowledge gained (although souls from Envy's PS or spare Führer candidates wer still required for opening the Doors).



The chapter itself is way better with the missing pages than without them! I was going to complain that there weren't many backgrounds in this chapter, but then the pages that were missing from the cam raws were full of detailed cityscape backgrounds XD

I love the Ishvalans attacking soldiers and bursting into some house and being so apologetic about it. They were like "we're not suspicious at all, no time to explain, we have nothing to do with the coup seriously, sorry about attacking you/invading your house. Just trying to prevent the Apocalypse, don't mind us."


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