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Episode 30: The Ishvalan War Of Extermination - Content Discussion Thread, Warning! May contain spoilers for the first 30 episodes!!
Forsaken Love
post Nov 1 2009, 03:26 AM
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after looking at the screenshots, i spy that riza said to ed the 'you love winry don't you' line which makes me veeeeeeeeeery happy, cause the aftermath of that at Briggs probably won't be cut! haaaaappy! And i spy mei fantasy wuuuuuuuuuuuuuv!


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Flamez_Freak
post Nov 1 2009, 03:34 AM
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im sorry ...can anyone post the link for the new cm...im dyin to watch it


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amestris_star
post Nov 1 2009, 03:46 AM
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QUOTE (Forsaken Love @ Nov 1 2009, 11:26 AM) *
after looking at the screenshots, i spy that riza said to ed the 'you love winry don't you' line which makes me veeeeeeeeeery happy, cause the aftermath of that at Briggs probably won't be cut! haaaaappy! And i spy mei fantasy wuuuuuuuuuuuuuv!


Yes she definitely said that, considering that he spat all his coffee on Black Hayate tongue.gif


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Megabyte117
post Nov 1 2009, 04:31 AM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Nov 1 2009, 02:37 AM) *
And yes, I have volume 15 with me right now. Am I the only one who thinks it may be the greatest volume of manga ever penned?

It was the first FMA volume I ever bought and is right now the most worn. So, yes, it is biggrin.gif

I was also disappointed by the episode. It didn't feel as if it held the same impact as the manga. It seems as if they barely touched upon Hawkeye's tattoo dry.gif
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Thalogens
post Nov 1 2009, 06:34 AM
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Ahhh, I wish I lived in the US with the live streaming, or Japan, even. AND-WHAT?? Gyah, maybe they're leaving the rest til later... with LanFan's missed scene, too...
Volume 15 was the first manga volume I bought ever- and they skip out half of it??!! I don't know, I need the raw/sub to make a justified comment. TT_TT
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Hagaren_4ever
post Nov 1 2009, 07:10 AM
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QUOTE (Michiyo- @ Nov 1 2009, 03:33 AM) *
Missed some scenes:
- they left out the scene when Roy calls Riza by her name. sad.gif


Roy call Riza by her name at some point in the manga? When?


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Claudius
post Nov 1 2009, 07:17 AM
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Uh yes...Hughes in Ishval...
To tell one truthfully, I've always had misgivings about that characterization in this flashback. I tend to prefer Anime1Hughes (plus the bigger role), who chose not to fight the war. So what is my problem with this story? Is it because the manga portrays Hughes as a killer?
NO
I've accepted that character point. I don't believe Anime1Hughes was some squeaky-clean soldier. His knife ability had to come somewhere (though I assume both Hughes' learned their skill before Ishbal). Also, Anime1Hughes puts knives into people's hands and he punches Roy in the face. Just because he stayed home doesn't mean he avoided any violent investigations (even if his body count was nowhere near Roy's). If anyone here needs bigger proof of where I stand, here is an edited excerpt of my fanfiction. It deals with a possible scenario of what Anime1Hughes did on the homefront:
"The mob started pelting us with rocks. The officers in charge ordered the troops. I was so angry. He deserved it…" He leaned his head, not exactly in grief.Gracia somehow got the strength to protest. "He was innocent."

Wrath sprang Hughes' face. Gracia saw his hand lung to her blouse. He crossed the floor pulling her with him. "I did nothing wrong!" He nearly cost Gracia her balance. Her equilibrium restoration made her see Hughes' face squeezed with misery. "Oh &$#@, everything's going straight to &%$#!" He too was losing his balance, like a doll breaking. He buried his face.

Gracia saw all of this against her normal presumptions. The feeling of utter disappointment added to her fears. Maes Hughes was an easy-going man that nothing seemed to ruffle. Who wouldn't hurt a fly! Not this man! "Maes, please…"

"I killed him." Hughes raised his face like a jackknife. The cool pleasance resumed on his face. "He didn't have a murderous bone in his body. But there was a panic...Out of nowhere he came running to me...I cut his throat then and there. Like instinct."

"Stop it…" Gracia shut her eyes. This was all a dream. It had to be!

But Hughes continued his reminisces, looking more complacent. Or mad. "I was praised for my work. They patted me on the back. Good job! I've done so much, and nobody's blamed me. I've killed and it's 'Good job!?'"..."Maybe they're right. Maybe I'm something wrong. I can kill..." The smile turned crooked... Hughes' cool lessened with his distance. His words left Gracia open to the surprise of strong hands grabbing her own tightly. "You must hate me…" His sorry eyes sparked insanity. "I'll make you hate me!"... [Anyone who wishes to comment about my writing- or lack of- Please do it thru private messages, lest we go off topic. BTW, Hughes faints before he gives Gracia the fate worse than death].


So, with that misinterpretation avoided, let's look at other problems. It's disturbing to see Hughes as another obedient-to-the-extreme soldier. Example: the scene where he helplessly witnesses Bradley reject the Ishvalan's terms of surrender . This obedience trait is a fundamental part of Roy and Armstrong's characterization in both Manga and Anime (Yes, I know some of you don't like Anime1Roy killing the Rockbells, but you have to admit MangaRoy would have done the same thing back then). But Hughes always seemed the most moral of the group. Kill enemy soldiers yes, but never the 'herd-civilians-to-the-gas-chamber-and-plead "I was only following orders!' type. Then again, from what I've written up there, I might sound a bit hypocritical.
Besides, doesn't the scene come off as potentially anti-climatic for that witness? The major basis for the Ishval flashback is to show where Roy & co. came from and how they will deal with it in the future. It sets up that Roy, Riza, and the others will eventually give the Homunculus their comeuppance. Unfortunately, we know Hughes will never get his chance. He dies without making his victory against the bad guys (On the other hand, he did give Lust that fatal wound that stopped her from killing Roy & and he is the only one of this killer cast to bring life).
Also- and I've written this twice- having Hughes share in this cast's desire for self-punishment brings up the question: Why did he have a kid?! It does seem rather cruel that MangaHughes would father one knowing he wants some retribution that will impair that responsibility. Oh well, perhaps Elysia was one of those beautiful accidents (There is that missing percent in Condom potency...)
With four soldiers (and one doctor) already giving angst in this flashback, Hughes does kinda come off as a 5th wheel. For the Bradley scene, Arakawa could have easily replaced him with Riza, her helplessness there foreshadowing her future situation . Of course, one can protest that without that scene, Hughes has no reason to help Roy. Well, isn't friendship enough? MangaGracia did say her husband helped people to his own disadvantage. The flashback in Anime1Episode25 (Farewell to the Great Man) emphasizes that characterization rather well. It doesn't matter if Hughes understands Roy's situation or not; his best friend is in trouble, and he will help him. What's wrong with that?
Well, that's my view. Forgive its paradoxical nature. Let the stones fly.
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Alzea
post Nov 1 2009, 07:24 AM
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QUOTE (Hagaren_4ever @ Nov 1 2009, 03:10 PM) *
QUOTE (Michiyo- @ Nov 1 2009, 03:33 AM) *
Missed some scenes:
- they left out the scene when Roy calls Riza by her name. sad.gif


Roy call Riza by her name at some point in the manga? When?
Yes, beginning of the chapter 58, when Papa Hawkeye is dying and Riza opens the door to the study where Papa and Roy are.
I really wanted to hear this too sad.gif


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Ropespinner
post Nov 1 2009, 07:25 AM
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(I just copied this from my LJ)

Not happy with this.

When I read volume 15 of the manga, I was devastated because of how soul-crushing it was. When I watched episode 30 of the new anime, I should have felt devastated, it would have been a good thing, but instead I'm just disappointed. Blah. Volume 15 gave so much depth to the manga story, made it clear how horrible the war was, gave motives to many of the characters. It makes readers understand why all those characters were so traumatized by the Ishbal war - heck, I was traumatized by it, and I only read it from a comic book! But episode 30 just walzes over the horrors of war, skipping so much it's not even funny. It's just a scratch in the surface. And the few silly scenes - Ed's spit take, Hughes dorking over the letter from Gracia, and especially the scene with Al and Mei in the end, which really should have been left to the next episode (it was in volume 16, not 15, seriously!) - were given way too much emphasis, whereas the dark, devastating, soul-crushing stuff wasn't. The propotions are seriously off there. It's like they were trying to make volume 15 easier for the viewers, but doing so, they lost track of what it was really supposed to be all about.

Volume 15 is definitely the darkest part of the manga. It's actually hard to read because it's so sad and emotionally distressing. But it's also very much a masterpiece. I don't think they were even trying to make it justice. Episode 30 is not remarkable in any way. Actually, it was so unremarkable I'm not even properly angry - I'm just disappointed in an "oh, whatever" way. And that's just sad.

Also, after volume 15, we got chapters 62 and 63, which brought back the hope. I love those chapters, because they have many beautiful, hertwarming, adorable and hopeful scenes. It worked as a beautiful contrast after the dark and devastating volume 15. I think one of the strong themes in FMA (manga) is hope, even in situations where it's hard to find, and chapters 48-53 bring this theme up perhaps better than any other part of the manga. Studio Bones is making the story a lot more shallow by messing that up.

EDIT. Oh, and Ed's face looked really off in pretty much every scene he was in, but Ed should not be the important character in this particular episode, so whatever.


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mersaydee
post Nov 1 2009, 07:33 AM
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I think they're saving some of the Ishaval stuff we saw in Volume 15 for later, honestly. They've sprinkled in a lot of Ishval flashbacks before (Mustang's and Hughes' conversation about Mustang becoming Fuhrer; Scar's brother, etc.) - and I think they've definitely saving things. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Riza's tattoo now, but they explain it later possibly during an emotional moment with Roy - I'd be blown away if they never bother to mention the significance of the tattoo. I also think they're saving the revelation that Kimblee was ordered and sent to kill the Rockbells for the episode where he meets Winry. As opposed to us knowing that he was planning to kill the Rockbells, then we see him meet Winry and think "that creep!" We'll see him be all silky and smooth and nice to her, then have it revealed that he was sent to kill her parents. It's out of order, but the emotional impact remains the same - in fact, it might be heightened when people realize just how heartless Kimblee can be, even to fellow Amestrians. I just have the feeling we haven't seen the last of Ishval yet, by a long shot. wink.gif


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A Pierrot's Aria
post Nov 1 2009, 08:32 AM
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QUOTE (mersaydee @ Nov 1 2009, 07:33 AM) *
I think they're saving some of the Ishaval stuff we saw in Volume 15 for later, honestly. They've sprinkled in a lot of Ishval flashbacks before (Mustang's and Hughes' conversation about Mustang becoming Fuhrer; Scar's brother, etc.) - and I think they've definitely saving things. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Riza's tattoo now, but they explain it later possibly during an emotional moment with Roy - I'd be blown away if they never bother to mention the significance of the tattoo. I also think they're saving the revelation that Kimblee was ordered and sent to kill the Rockbells for the episode where he meets Winry. As opposed to us knowing that he was planning to kill the Rockbells, then we see him meet Winry and think "that creep!" We'll see him be all silky and smooth and nice to her, then have it revealed that he was sent to kill her parents. It's out of order, but the emotional impact remains the same - in fact, it might be heightened when people realize just how heartless Kimblee can be, even to fellow Amestrians. I just have the feeling we haven't seen the last of Ishval yet, by a long shot. wink.gif


I agree, I think people are kind of...I dunno, over-reacting about this episode. I don't think it's bad at all.

Personally, I like the way the episode was handled, and I really don't think the "Riza!" scene, as people call it, was very important at all (it's most likely the RoyAi shippers found it important though- don't get me wrong, I love that couple, too, but I just don't think it's very important.)

It may seem rushed to some people, but I believe that (if I'm correct about it being both Riza and Marcoh giving their accounts in this episode) it's more about the accounts from two individuals to give a flavour of what happened rather than having everything shoved down your throat at one time (which I found slightly...I dunno...not boring, but tiring, sort of, in the manga) Similarly, you never know, Dr. Knox's account may even come in a different episode later to give viewers more of an idea of what happened so they can slowly piece the puzzle -so to speak- together. (I mean, it's not an illogical theory since they have changed some things around a bit and probably decided to handle it in a different way.)

My favourite part of the episode is definitely the look in their eyes, I thought it was a very powerful image, and was definitely my favourite scene in the manga- it just made a bigger impact on me than anything else.


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kkg22104
post Nov 1 2009, 09:02 AM
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QUOTE (Ropespinner @ Nov 1 2009, 09:25 AM) *
EDIT. Oh, and Ed's face looked really off in pretty much every scene he was in, but Ed should not be the important character in this particular episode, so whatever.

Agreed. Ed's hair was bothering me pretty much the whole episode. *twitch* I was really hoping Brotherhood was past the crappy art inconsistencies, but apparently there are still some bad teams who can't draw that well...

Overall, I thought the episode definitely did not do volume 15 justice. Like Rosespinner said, Bones made the episode a lot less dark and didn't focus on all the war elements. I also like mersaydee's thinking, and I hope they'll include more parts of the volume in later episodes wherever they fit best.


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Cece
post Nov 1 2009, 09:23 AM
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They cut too much. My chest felt heavy and I teared up when reading this part in the manga. I didn't feel anything when watching this episode. That's a shame. I was very disappointed.


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SneakyRuler
post Nov 1 2009, 09:42 AM
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How could they? I know I'm overreacting right now, but anyway... Don't mind Hawkeye sensei dying in his bed, but the kind of cut that was done between shot of Hawkeye in shower and Edward outside the door gave me impresion like Hawkeye always took her baths with her door ajar so anyone yould enter.

Miss Grand's scenes a lot, miss seeing Dr. Knox in there (I actually read those chapters in manga about a week ago and when the screams started, screams of Ishbalans that were held in for experiments, I froze just reading it).

Loved Hughes going all lovey dovey about a letter from Gracia BUT then... Hawkeye just walks from behind a rock? Seriously? (Hawkeye looking at Mustang through the viewpoint of her gun is a favourite picture of Ishval) And after that all three of them walk back to the ton ruins, take some boxes and sit in the middle of a crossing while all the soldiers pass around. Excelent.

Kimblee... was so evil and disurbing... and we sure as him see him again when he'd tell Winry how sad he was that he didn't reach her parents still alive. Looking forward to see that flashback.

Bradley as great and mighty as ever.

And then all is suddenly over and everybody goes home. Oh my. Another scene MUST be put some other time. We must be introduced to Mustangs company in Ishval... or not?

Well, as a whole this episode was disappoining, especially when I know they cand do better, excelent even like episode 26, and the more it hurts how scattered all those images looked and felt. If they only picture after picture followed the manga they could get emotional impact enough, could've skipped Winry's parents and Scar's story as they did now.
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Vlyse
post Nov 1 2009, 10:18 AM
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Was that a shot of Isaac I saw about halfway in? I found that a nice touch to the episode.


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