HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 28: Father - Content Discussion Thread, Warning! May contain spoilers for the first 28 episodes!!
Mr. Deathy
post Oct 19 2009, 12:29 PM
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OT:
QUOTE (zonkiethegreat @ Oct 18 2009, 08:03 PM) *
So how many chapters are they cramming in the next episode?? It looks like from the preview, that ed will be visiting Riza's apartment???


Looks like it'll cover 2 chapters and end just before that. Those chapters are pretty dialogue intensive though so I expect a few omitted scenes, or at least a lot of dialogue cuts (like in most 2 chapter eps)

Episode 30 will cover segments of all the Ishval chapters I guess, though less than a third of the whole thing in terms of content I expect.

< ^ Thanks, Mr. Deathy for answering zonkiethegreat's question. ^^
NOTE: Anyone with further discussions on the content of upcoming episodes, please use Future episode discussion thread. Thank you! :) ~ Board Staff >
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Bag of Magic Foo...
post Oct 19 2009, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (Jealous Rogo @ Oct 19 2009, 02:26 PM) *
There's points when Ling's bones and limbs are clearly bending in ways they just shouldn't.

Oh no, he's turning into Plastic Man! happy.gif
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Elle-chan
post Oct 19 2009, 04:18 PM
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They are rushing the series to much.


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edxwinryfan
post Oct 19 2009, 06:45 PM
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The was a good episode. I am really excited for next week because of the EdxWinry scenes happy.gif I think there is 3 (sort of) one where Ed tells Bradley not to dare touch Winry, and then he calls her to make sure she is okay smile.gif plus I think we will get to see the scene where Riza asks him if he loves (is in love) Winry wub.gif wub.gif


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zonkiethegreat
post Oct 19 2009, 07:57 PM
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Yeah it looks like Ed will be visiting Riza not in the next episode but the following HALLOWEEN EP!!! YEAH! I bet ANYTHING the next ep will end with a glimpse of Riza's tattoo!!! biggrin.gif


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penguintruth
post Oct 19 2009, 08:39 PM
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I was never fond of Arakawa making Ling a new Greed. While Greed is my favorite character, I didn't want to see him come back in such a way, and Ling is probably my least favorite character. The idea itself is pretty questionable, since it makes little sense Father would willingly bring back an openly rebellious element like Greed, even with his memories wiped. His nature is to strike out on his own, since he's so greedy. It seemed to me, when I first read this in the manga, that Arakawa simply ran out of ideas for Ling. While I have since changed my mind on it, I'm still not certain whether or not it was a good move. But hey, I should feel better that Greed has returned, right? If anything, Greed inhabiting him improves him, right?

The scene where he becomes Greed is a little underwhelming though, at least musically. I did enjoy the bit where Ling talks to the spirit of Greed. When I read that in the manga, I pictured blackness with white spirits floating around, not red, but with the Philosopher's Stone, it makes more sense. I just felt like it didn't seem as dramatic as in the manga.

Also, what is it about Greed's ouroboros tattoo? I thought it was the other way around on his hand. Maybe that was just for the first anime. I thought it looked better there.

At least we get Yuuichi Nakamura again. I thought he made a good Greed beforehand, approaching the quality of Suwabe in the first series. Hearing him again as Greed made me smile. He knows how to deliver.

Why does Scar seems so damn overpowered? Angry or not, he shouldn't be able to get away with half the things he does. The look on his face when he couldn't kill Father was priceless.


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Mr. Deathy
post Oct 20 2009, 02:40 AM
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^@Penguintruth - I have the complete opposite opinion of Ling becoming Greed. I actually think Arakawa created Ling with the INTENTION to make him Greed. It's like his entire point in the storyline, that he's the good guy character who becomes a homonculus. It also ties in perfectly with his desires.

I also think it was planned out far enough in advance that the reason Father was specifically shown to drink Greed and take the stone back into himself was so that he could make a new Greed later on.

Father seems intent on separating all the "sins" from his body as well as having pawns so I guess getting rid of his greed again was part of the reason why he decided to make a new Greed. I don't think it even needs to make logical sense though because it was a great development.

I have absolutely no idea why you're so against Ling as a character? It almost comes across that your love of the first series makes you biased against characters exclusive to the manga or something. I can see no logical reason to detest the character...dislike perhaps, but you complain about him at virtually every possibility?
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Imbris
post Oct 20 2009, 03:54 AM
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I agree Mr. Deathy! Ling is a great character! Like Scar, he's an anti-hero. It's boring when a story has only good guys and bad guys, but when there are some ambiguous characters that can make a story so much more interesting.

Ling was meant to become greed, and I'm sure Arakawa had the whole thing planned out from the start. Ling's greedy on his own - always talking about "me me me" as his excuse for everything he does, so it was only natural for him to become Greed the homunculus.

And seriously Penguin...complaining about the placement of his ouroboros tattoo!? It's a nice observation if that's indeed the case, but hardly anything worth scoffing at.

Anyway, a good episode. Not as good as 26, but that's one's gonna be HARD to top. I kind of wish someone would put me in a coma for a few months so I could come back and watch the rest of the series in one sitting - these week-long waits are brutal!!
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Sannom
post Oct 20 2009, 04:28 AM
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QUOTE ("penguintruth")
Why does Scar seems so damn overpowered? Angry or not, he shouldn't be able to get away with half the things he does.


The guy is a walking weapon of mass destruction, even if not at the degree of Mustang. His alchemy makes short work of everything as long as he knows what he's fighting against, and we all know what incompetent fools Envy and Glutonny are.
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penguintruth
post Oct 20 2009, 11:00 AM
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QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Oct 20 2009, 05:40 AM) *
^@Penguintruth - I have the complete opposite opinion of Ling becoming Greed. I actually think Arakawa created Ling with the INTENTION to make him Greed. It's like his entire point in the storyline, that he's the good guy character who becomes a homonculus. It also ties in perfectly with his desires.

I also think it was planned out far enough in advance that the reason Father was specifically shown to drink Greed and take the stone back into himself was so that he could make a new Greed later on.

Father seems intent on separating all the "sins" from his body as well as having pawns so I guess getting rid of his greed again was part of the reason why he decided to make a new Greed. I don't think it even needs to make logical sense though because it was a great development.


The reasoning is shakey to start out with why Father would remake Greed. And then Arakawa does nearly nothing with him as Greed for a long while. As if he'd become an inconvenience. I don't expect immediate returns, but that it took so long for anything to come of that plot point frustrated me. Not to mention that I so loved the original Greed, I guess I got a bit miffed this one wasn't in the same form.

Now, yes, in recent chapters of the manga, Arakawa's been doing a great job with the character, but for a while, he just disappeared.

QUOTE
I have absolutely no idea why you're so against Ling as a character? It almost comes across that your love of the first series makes you biased against characters exclusive to the manga or something. I can see no logical reason to detest the character...dislike perhaps, but you complain about him at virtually every possibility?


I'm hardly so blindly in love with the first series that I can't accept manga-only characters. Major General Olivier Armstrong, for instance, is one of my favorite characters. And I appreciate how much more mileage the manga has gotten out of Doctor Marcoh than the first series did.

I'm not that in love with the anime-only characters, either. Frank Archer was sort of an iffy character, and then they turn him into some sort of cyborg, which had me scratching my head. The child Wrath was irritating most of the time, and I only sympathized with him towards the end, and in the movie. Dante came across as more of an obstacle than a villain.

I just dislike the Xingese in general. They come in, they have these amazingly exaggerated super skills that immediately match the opposition, and they just don't come across as FMA characters to me. They interfere by having themes too similar to already existing characters, and it becomes too much of the same thing, but in a form that feels awkward.

And you know, despite my critical nature, I did, after all, really like this episode. Though I save most of my praise for my blog reviews.


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Forsaken Love
post Oct 20 2009, 11:11 AM
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I don't see there's anything awkward about Greeling at all, its obvious the original Greed was created to become Greeling, as Ling was also created for the primary purpose of becoming Greeling, thats their purposes in the story, to become an awesome epic anti-hero to give the story some more deapth, and blend the black and white barriors of good and evil, for me I also allways loved the xingese characters and love how arakawa puts people from many races and cultures into her story, fma would not work in its current form if it wernt for the xingese characters concepts like the reverse transmutation circle would be much less explored, as would the dropped hints of how amestrias' alchemy is weird whether you like them or not, they are important


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Broken Chouchou
post Oct 20 2009, 11:36 AM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Oct 20 2009, 11:00 AM) *
The reasoning is shakey to start out with why Father would remake Greed.


Well, I thought Father wanted to get rid of all his human emotions, and by drinking Greed, isn't it possible that he regained the feeling of greed? So making another Greed, even though he might be somewhat of a liability, might be worth having a "cleansed" mind, or whatever.

QUOTE (penguintruth @ Oct 20 2009, 11:00 AM) *
Ling is probably my least favorite character


I just have something. WHY? You've been ranting about that in almost every post you mention him xD Why do you hate him so much?


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Bye bye, Edward Elric :(
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penguintruth
post Oct 20 2009, 12:14 PM
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QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Oct 20 2009, 02:36 PM) *
I just have something. WHY? You've been ranting about that in almost every post you mention him xD Why do you hate him so much?


I've already explained why I dislike the Xingese characters. Ling in particular because I feel like he's a slightly different version of Edward. We already have one Ed, we don't need another one. He detracts from Ed, and more importantly, from Alphonse, because with two strong Eds, you tend to look away from the other brother. And after Arakawa went through all the trouble of developing Al.

Ling is a "loud" character, like Edward. Alphonse is more nuanced, but more people will likely look at Ling, because of all the grand things they have him do. It's like they're trying to make Ling into another Elric brother, and I dislike it. Two is enough.


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Bag of Magic Foo...
post Oct 20 2009, 05:50 PM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Oct 20 2009, 01:00 PM) *
And then Arakawa does nearly nothing with him as Greed for a long while. As if he'd become an inconvenience. I don't expect immediate returns, but that it took so long for anything to come of that plot point frustrated me.

Maybe if the manga takes too long to end, this anime will have to add some filler episodes about Greed doing more stuff! Yeah?


QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Oct 20 2009, 01:36 PM) *
Well, I thought Father wanted to get rid of all his human emotions, and by drinking Greed, isn't it possible that he regained the feeling of greed?

And then he had a greedy thought: "I need more minions! MORE!"
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Kaleidoscope
post Oct 20 2009, 08:56 PM
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About Ling... I'm going to commit FMA blasphemy here, so bear with me.
First of all, I freely confess Al is my favorite male character.

Having said that, I actually prefer the Elric brothers separated. All of my favorite arcs or part of arcs involve the brothers separated. I think their characters both shine so much better when they're not together. Yes, they make a classic team, but the manga really picks up when Arakawa has established their dynamic and importance to each other enough to separate them, especially for long periods of time. The Gluttony's stomach arc is wonderful, in part because Ling is a much better foil for Ed than Al. Ling and Ed do have a lot of similarities, which makes their differences all the more striking. At the point when they meet in the story, Ed has very little self control, whereas I see Ling as incredibly calculating and self-controlled for a 15 year old, right from the get go. He knows what he wants, and he always does his best to spin the situation to his advantage. Ed on the other hand, often makes things worse for himself because of his lack of self control, like when he starts a fight with Envy in the forest, when Envy just came to collect Gluttony. But gradually, their characters develop in such a way that Ed becomes more and more self-disciplined (one humorous example would be his insistence on attacking Father in this episode), and Ling, despite his desperate attempts to spin things to his advantage, is sucked deeper and deeper into situations he cannot control. His possession is the most obvious example, but his breakdown in 100 is another important moment . The contrast is wonderful.

As for Al, I love his dynamic with Winry (adore the snark), Scar (great illustration of Al’s priorities), Mei (guilty shipper here), and Hohenheim (shows the depth of Al’s desire to be accepted), but I also love him on his own or with minor characters. Al's such an introspective character that he can totally carry a scene on his own. My all time favorite Al moments are his trudge through the snow in the Briggs arc and his fight with Kimblee and Pride With Ed, he sometimes gets overshadowed, as penguintruth said, Ed's a very loud character.

So yeah, I think Ling's a great addition to the story, and I actually love what he and the gradually ginormous cast as a whole do to force the Elrics apart. I know, I'm blasphemous.


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