HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 22: Backs In The Distance - Content Discussion Thread, Warning! May contain spoilers for the first 22 episodes!!
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Red Kitty
post Sep 7 2009, 02:11 PM
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Yay, sub's out! biggrin.gif. Better than last week's awful translations, at least.

It was a so-so episode - in all honesty, I preferred last week's episode. The pace is definitely slowing down a bit - can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing yet.

I was personally a big fan of Winry's gun scene, but they seriously screwed up all the emotion and tension aspects of it. Perhaps a very quick flashback would have been more effective (as in literally, a very fast zoom into Winry's face and into her eyes, and flashes (yes, a 'flash' back) of her life with her parents before they went away, her parents leaving, and a funeral, images flashing faster as they went? That would have given the impression of her 'snapping'. Maybe then going back to Winry's stunned face, and smoothly rotating to Scar's? I think that would have been more dramatic than the longer flashback that was there).

The shots and cinematography used in general ruined the whole thing (because the VA in this episode was amazing). Not effective at all. Like Winry's 'why?' line was just a shot of her kneeling normally - no interesting or effective angle (maybe a shot of just her lips moving instead, maybe going to scar looking stunned while she talks). Frankly, that scene could have been amazing, but it sucked. The art also suffered huge lapses in quality at times, and didn't really pull it off. The quality actually distracted me a lot.

The gun annoyed me immensely. Firstly it came out of nowhere (plot hole much?), and in the second half of the episode, she held onto it for far too long - it felt like she was milking it a bit. Not convincing. Winry should have darkened the tone a little when she grabbed the gun, maybe after her hands shook, she grabs it tightly, and when she looks up to scar, showing her face, you see her tears and her vulnerability showing though via facial expression rather than from wherever it did come from. I didn't feel sorry for her, like in the manga - it felt more like annoying angst than an actual breakdown. There was also music in the background at one point, which could have worked (it was quite good and effective, actually) if the art and the shots were sorted out.

I loved the Ishabal flashbacks though. Brilliant, done extremely well. The blue eyes were awesomely, awesomely effective. Scar's waking up moment in the hospital was great (you got the feeling it was a real makeshift hospital, it felt somewhat real with people moving about), and it gave a little insight about scar. I really, really hope this doesn't mean detracting time from the Ishabal chapters proper (I hope they spend as much on those scenes as Mustang vs. Lust, and hope the hachet job of the gun scene will be replaced with an awesome Ishabal flashback in general. I personally loved that chapter (or were they chapters?), so i hope they don't cut much there).

And then we have the EdxWin moments. If there's one thing I hate about EdWin, it's how forced it is. It felt forced a little in this episode too. Ed's diving in front of Winry' was rather lame and cliché (it could have actually been done effectively, and pulled off, if they'd sorted out the cinematography and the issues with art *sigh*). Al was a bit of a jerk afterwards with his line on risking heir lives it seemed. Watching it, I wish EdxWin was actually an unrequited love and an infatuation on Winry's side (would flow and work better, as well as be generally more interesting plotwise). I'm a bit biased on this episode, because I've realised I'm not really an EdWin fan (prefer AlxWin), so the slightly obvious hints annoy me (unlike the Royai ones in episode 19, which whilst obvious, didn't annoy me as much). Although the moment was actually done quite well, with the close-up on Ed holding Winry's arm, and Winry is his arms crying at the end. I think the credits music gradually coming in was slightly less effective than in episode 19 - the moment was supposed to be a bit of quiet after the storm.

And the VA was amazing, like I said.


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Mr. Deathy
post Sep 7 2009, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE
The gun annoyed me immensely. Firstly it came out of nowhere (plot hole much?)


One of the soldiers that was waiting for permission to engage Scar drops it when they get blasted back by the dust cloud I think.
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Kyelinn
post Sep 7 2009, 03:01 PM
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QUOTE (Red Kitty)
And then we have the EdxWin moments. If there's one thing I hate about EdWin, it's how forced it is. It felt forced a little in this episode too. Ed's diving in front of Winry' was rather lame and cliché (it could have actually been done effectively, and pulled off, if they'd sorted out the cinematography and the issues with art *sigh*). Al was a bit of a jerk afterwards with his line on risking heir lives it seemed. Watching it, I wish EdxWin was actually an unrequited love and an infatuation on Winry's side (would flow and work better, as well as be generally more interesting plotwise). I'm a bit biased on this episode, because I've realised I'm not really an EdWin fan (prefer AlxWin), so the slightly obvious hints annoy me (unlike the Royai ones in episode 19, which whilst obvious, didn't annoy me as much). Although the moment was actually done quite well, with the close-up on Ed holding Winry's arm, and Winry is his arms crying at the end. I think the credits music gradually coming in was slightly less effective than in episode 19 - the moment was supposed to be a bit of quiet after the storm.

And the VA was amazing, like I said.


*cough* Even though you prefer AlxWin, it's not happening *cough* EdxWin is actually the canon couple in this story, no matter how much it annoys you. Better get used to seeing the EdxWin moments coming up in this anime. Al and Winry don't have the chemistry that Ed and Winry do...they never have. Just out of curiosity, have you read the manga? Also, how is EdxWin forced? Arakawa plays it out just right and of course he dove in front of Winry. She had a serial killer about ready to take her out. I'm sure he wasn't about to let somebody extremely important to him just get killed like that. Plus it was part of the plot to take Scar hesitate as he remembered his brother doing the same for him. Also if it were unrequited, no I'm sorry but I disagree. It wouldn't work better. I don't quite see how you see it that way, but whatever. You know, I think you're the first person I've seen actually complain about EdxWin in this story and it's canon. laugh.gif


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Mistress of Mise...
post Sep 7 2009, 03:12 PM
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QUOTE (Mr. Deathy @ Sep 7 2009, 05:48 PM) *
QUOTE
The gun annoyed me immensely. Firstly it came out of nowhere (plot hole much?)


One of the soldiers that was waiting for permission to engage Scar drops it when they get blasted back by the dust cloud I think.


Yes, but in the manga, it was clearer as to where the gun came from since there was an unconscious MP right next to Winry.

Anyway. Initial impressions were fairly positive, although the art was kind of iffy. Ling vs Wrath was great, the flashback itself was pretty amazing (although poorly placed), the VAs actually made me forget about the bleh art for a few moments, and the very last scene with Ed and Winry was pretty well done (and I don't even ship EdWin). Everything else was mediocre at best. I really wish the focus had been more on Winry in this episode; the manga made my heart clench for her, but here it's just kind of...angsty with no real substance.

Still, that flashback. <3


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Elle-chan
post Sep 7 2009, 03:27 PM
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I started crying. When i saw this episode


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Full Metal Elf
post Sep 7 2009, 05:15 PM
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I thought it was fairly well done. Last week's was way better. This episode felt a tad rushed and the animation wasn't as good.

The scene with Winry was good, it almost made me cry...but the manga take on this entire thing I felt was MUCH more emotional.

I also felt the scene between Ling/Bradley was much more intense in the manga than the anime portrayed.

It wasn't a horrible episode though.


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thunderbreak
post Sep 7 2009, 05:25 PM
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Hmm...I both like and dislike the scar scene being move forward.it makes less mysterious but i really love the whole ishbal flashback so.....unless i'm mistaken,there's some scenes/dialogues is not carried out yet .
i think the blue eyes are nicely done.it notes the differences between them.also the kimbley's scenes are well done.and the part where scar awokes is nicely done to

QUOTE (rzerox21xx @ Sep 6 2009, 09:39 PM) *
QUOTE (thunderbreak @ Sep 6 2009, 07:25 AM) *
omg,Takehito Koyasu is in !!yeah!! cant believe he plays the good guy this time round.thanks !!



Just listen to Scar's brother's voice. and you know instantly that Koyasu-san. It be nice if they get Ryotaro Okiayu to voice a character like Miles, would be perfect(voiceing another isbalian character like him would be a neat contrast to the first scar voice by him.) it would be like old scar meet new scar when they talk to each other when they adapt volume 18.

btw i havent watch that ep at that time.and i think it's not totally like him(um...i only see of his villian roles so...esp in gintama he's as ultimate villian.)but i think his performance is wonderful,and fits scar's brother perfectly,especially the final line of his.the music accompanied by it is good to(IMO).i hope the beginning scenes are included later.

oh btw,i need to comment on winry's scene.the lowdowns of the flashback is that winry's scene is not focused on,since it should be her ep.
side note:it looks like this ep does a recap,which fma hasnt done in quite some times.

at beginnning of anime i really like the scene.winry's flashback.the emotions there is nicely done( i think as subtle as the manga gets),at the grave is nicely done.good music there.
i think winry's appearance at scene is a bit weird...i mean the angle the anime portrays.
and the scene ed put down winry's gun.well it's subtle,and i like how he put down her fingers one by one.(va's fantastic too)

but the gun scene...it seems unmatched....i'm not sure whether it's the different angle the anime potrays...
and i do agree that winry's facial expression is not drawn well here.kinda of unmatched with the seiyuu voice(not the seiyuu's fault anyway)

ling's scene
well the gluttony fight wasnt 100% deleted huh?(it's 97% maybe)i am surprised it's not censored.and i like the king's talk between them.it's pity this ep has not much of their fights

seems like the cut the hoho scenes
Anyone spot the curious cat?
maybe scar adopt it and he forgot afterwards?
Since baidu dont allow post image outside their site,i post the web links
http://tieba.baidu.com/f?kz=639977707

does this scene being cut ?
credits one manga:


some comment on ED music.while at first i did not like it,at latter parts i start to like it more,even than the OP.it relax your mood after a very episode.


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TheSentinel
post Sep 7 2009, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (Kaori Ayanami @ Sep 7 2009, 08:01 AM) *
What I don't understad is the conversation going on in the clinic when Scar woke up. Where the Rockbells about to leave Ishval? That would be new (as it is this episode's focus on that part of the story, which I found to be stimulating).


I think they were trying to get the Ishvalan's out of there before the army shows up and kills them all.

QUOTE (thunderbreak @ Sep 7 2009, 08:25 PM) *
does this scene being cut ?
credits one manga:


some comment on ED music.while at first i did not like it,at latter parts i start to like it more,even than the OP.it relax your mood after a very episode.


That scene will probably be the start of next week's episode, just like it was the start of one of the monthly manga.


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penguintruth
post Sep 8 2009, 01:34 AM
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I just noticed something. Scar's brother hands him his research with his right arm, the same arm he gives to him.


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Imbris
post Sep 8 2009, 02:41 AM
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So how perfect was the final scene's lead into the ending theme? It's like they chose that song just for this episode's conclusion!

I see people nitpicking with various things...but once again, I suggest that you just sit back, relax, and enjoy the anime. You can over-analyze the greatest movies/novels/anime of all time, and still find flaws...
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zonkiethegreat
post Sep 8 2009, 09:46 AM
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QUOTE (Imbris @ Sep 8 2009, 05:41 AM) *
So how perfect was the final scene's lead into the ending theme? It's like they chose that song just for this episode's conclusion!

I see people nitpicking with various things...but once again, I suggest that you just sit back, relax, and enjoy the anime. You can over-analyze the greatest movies/novels/anime of all time, and still find flaws...


I totally agree here. Everyone is being WAY too critical about this episode. I thought it was GREAT. One of the best eps so far, especially animation-wise.



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allykatty1
post Sep 9 2009, 02:08 AM
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QUOTE (zonkiethegreat @ Sep 8 2009, 08:46 AM) *
QUOTE (Imbris @ Sep 8 2009, 05:41 AM) *
So how perfect was the final scene's lead into the ending theme? It's like they chose that song just for this episode's conclusion!

I see people nitpicking with various things...but once again, I suggest that you just sit back, relax, and enjoy the anime. You can over-analyze the greatest movies/novels/anime of all time, and still find flaws...


I totally agree here. Everyone is being WAY too critical about this episode. I thought it was GREAT. One of the best eps so far, especially animation-wise.


Well, it is only because we do love it so much that we are so critical, lol! Even though a few things didn't turn out quite like I might have hoped, now that I have come to terms with those things, in the end it is still one of my favorite eps so far (if not #1). When I watched it a second time, I also tried to look at it more as if I hadn't read the manga at all. I tried to pretend I was a fresh viewer who had no idea what was going to happen and had no preconceptions about angles, expressions, etc. Now I am much happier. smile.gif

And OMFG, this AMV made me tear up. O_O Yes, someone already made a gun-scene-centric AMV! I am highly impressed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIIfTEuWSG8

QUOTE (Imbris @ Sep 8 2009, 01:41 AM) *
So how perfect was the final scene's lead into the ending theme? It's like they chose that song just for this episode's conclusion!


Haha, yes, that was the first thing I thought the very first time I heard "Let It Out" a couple months ago! ;D At the end of ep 15, I just went, "HA, THE GUN SCENE. IT IS COMING!" I even predicted that they would use it as a lead-in as Winry collapses into Ed's arms, starting the music before they actually cut to the credits themselves... partly cuz I actually envisioned almost the exact same thing in my imagination early last year, with a song pretty similar in sound/tone (Ayumi Hamasaki's "Fated" - look it up, great song!). Hehe, much as I'd like to think I'm psychic, I really couldn't imagine them having done it any other way. O_o

That said, even though I think the song was definitely meant for this ep more than any other, "Let It Out" also fits Ed/Hohenheim very well (like the end of ep 19, good stuff). You know, I personally think it is the best song of FMA:B so far... heck, one of the best of FMA, period (I love it just about as much as Rewrite and Ready Steady Go from the first anime... it's not actiony like they are, but it's just as powerful in its' own way as a ballad). Kudos to Miho! biggrin.gif
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ShadowCat17
post Sep 10 2009, 12:58 PM
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Yeah, they seriously messed up the Winry gun scene.

Firstly, it didn't seem as if Scar actually felt threatened. After all, why would Winry be able to shoot him when it seems that Scar has a Matrix-like ability to dodge a whole army's worth of bullets? Maybe if he was in a more vulnerable position, or out of breath or something, instead of just standing there and nonchalantly looking down at her.

Secondly, Winry looked like she was more sad than angry. She showed a little bit of anger when she yelled to give back her mom and dad, but then she went all sadness again. If you're actually pointing a gun at someone and thinking about firing, you're probably sad, yes, but also enraged. They should have shown that more, and it would have also made it more convincing that she might actually fire the thing. With the way they did it, she was weak and it was pretty obvious that she wouldn't have the willpower to do it. On a similar note, when Winry cried at the very end it sounded like Wrath's annoying crying from the first anime.

Thirdly, the ishbal flashback was *great*, but what poor timing! You're not supposed to feel bad for Scar, you're supposed to feel bad for Winry! Plenty of time for feeling bad for Scar later, but this was Winry's moment and they messed it up.
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post Sep 10 2009, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowCat17 @ Sep 10 2009, 12:58 PM) *
Yeah, they seriously messed up the Winry gun scene.

Firstly, it didn't seem as if Scar actually felt threatened. After all, why would Winry be able to shoot him when it seems that Scar has a Matrix-like ability to dodge a whole army's worth of bullets? Maybe if he was in a more vulnerable position, or out of breath or something, instead of just standing there and nonchalantly looking down at her.

Secondly, Winry looked like she was more sad than angry. She showed a little bit of anger when she yelled to give back her mom and dad, but then she went all sadness again. If you're actually pointing a gun at someone and thinking about firing, you're probably sad, yes, but also enraged. They should have shown that more, and it would have also made it more convincing that she might actually fire the thing. With the way they did it, she was weak and it was pretty obvious that she wouldn't have the willpower to do it. On a similar note, when Winry cried at the very end it sounded like Wrath's annoying crying from the first anime.

Thirdly, the ishbal flashback was *great*, but what poor timing! You're not supposed to feel bad for Scar, you're supposed to feel bad for Winry! Plenty of time for feeling bad for Scar later, but this was Winry's moment and they messed it up.


This post summed up everything in my mind. Though the people who did the anime did slightly mess up Riza's-going-crazy-because-she-thought-Mustang-was-dead-and-starts-firing-bullets, I would of preferred that anger versus the sadness that's going around with Winry. It seems more, I dunno, realistic that way.


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Trakonda
post Sep 13 2009, 02:31 PM
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Personally, I loved the episode.

I don't really feel like taking all the details in, since most people have already done this. But I've come to accept this one small fact: The original thing can never be surpassed. In this sense, Brotherhood will never surpass the manga. Because it's pretty much impossible to get all the impact and emotion from single, powerfully drawn panels into an animated episode. You just have to try and hope it turns out good. This is why I've pretty much given up on criticizing the episodes.

I'm happy of this ep. The gun scene wasn't that bad - it had it's flaws, yes, but I still enjoyed it.
And the EdWin moment was beautifully done, too. (yes, Edwin fan here tongue.gif )

I have to agree with one thing though: The scene when Ed jumped in front of Winry and Al scolded him for it. It really felt like Al was just being heartless and was more interested in catching Scar than ensuring Winry's safety. That.. didn't turn out as expected, really. It made Al look like jerk.
BUT, that's my only complaint. biggrin.gif And I dunno how else they could have done this scene, anyway.
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