HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 19: The Death Of The Undying - Content Discussion Thread, Warning! May contain spoilers for the first 19 episodes!!
Phoenix-Hawk
post Aug 13 2009, 12:29 AM
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Yep, this is one of the best episodes so far...
The animation was just awesome, so was the part when Mustang was burning Lust...
I thought Hawkeye screaming was a tiny tiny bit over the top though
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Imbris
post Aug 13 2009, 02:31 AM
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QUOTE (TheSentinel @ Aug 12 2009, 10:35 PM) *
Not to jump on anyone for their opinions, but I'll offer one of my own.

IMNSHO (In My Not So Humble Opinion):

Lots of things switch formats: book to movie, tv show to movie, movie to book, comic to movie, manga to anime, anime to manga, etc. etc etc.

My best advice, don't try to confuse one for the other. They aren't identical pieces. Compare them all you wish, point out things you liked or disliked. Just don't expect perfection... its not possible.

I love the Manga, probably one of the best stories I've ever read (books included). I enjoyed the first anime (it led me to the manga). I'm loving the new anime. The manga remains better IMNSHO, but just because they aren't animating the manga frame by frame its not going to be a 'perfect' adaptation.

Enjoy the series (or don't, after all its you can make up your own mind).

Excellent, excellent post. I couldn't agree more!
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Jealous Rogo
post Aug 13 2009, 03:01 AM
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QUOTE (TheSentinel @ Aug 12 2009, 07:35 PM) *
Not to jump on anyone for their opinions, but I'll offer one of my own.

IMNSHO (In My Not So Humble Opinion):

Lots of things switch formats: book to movie, tv show to movie, movie to book, comic to movie, manga to anime, anime to manga, etc. etc etc.

My best advice, don't try to confuse one for the other. They aren't identical pieces. Compare them all you wish, point out things you liked or disliked. Just don't expect perfection... its not possible.

I love the Manga, probably one of the best stories I've ever read (books included). I enjoyed the first anime (it led me to the manga). I'm loving the new anime. The manga remains better IMNSHO, but just because they aren't animating the manga frame by frame its not going to be a 'perfect' adaptation.

Enjoy the series (or don't, after all its you can make up your own mind).


Seconded (Thirded?)

Now onto the episode itself.

- Okay first to address the main thing they removed from this episode, Ling and Lan Fan VS Envy and Gluttony. I am dissappointed to see this gone but at the same time, I'm not surprised nor do I think it's a great loss. It only served these purposes a. introducing Ling to the concept of Homunuculus (word of mouth will sort that out no doubt) and b. to introduce Envy's shapeshifting to Al and spark the conversation in the car, c. introducing that Lan Fan and Ling can recognise Homunculus by their weird energy and d. introducing, in voice, Pride (which is the only thing I'm really sad is gone)

- I like that Hawkeye didn't call that thing on Gluttony's tongue a tattoo. I don't know why but it pleased me. I know it's a tattoo but I just don't think you'd make that leap when you saw it on someone's TONGUE. I also think it's funny that in the manga Hawkeye accepted the fact Gluttony was an Homunculus whereas in the anime Hawkeye seemed more skeptical.

- The Homunculus were so creepy in this episode, mostly achieved by the fact that they weren't having their asses handed to them by Ling and Lan Fan Gluttony standing up gave me chills, don't ask me why. As did Lust from start to finish.

- Speaking of Lust. YES, YES, FREAKING YES. THIS is what Lust should be like dammit! Not moping over memories, having one facial expression and fawning over Scar. Sorry I don't hate the original anime and I like it for it's merits but I HATE the first series' version of Lust for being just... bad. I love seeing Lust here, being her cruel, methodical self. I don't care if she has less depth, she's badass. I love the cruel smile they've given her for the anime (that was somewhat there in the manga) it just betrays her true nature so simply.

- Is it me or were Lust's nails bigger and more claw like than ever in this episode?

- Love Mustang's expression when getting drenched. I love that he turned it back on Lust even more.

- Sorry? What was that Mustang? You know her body is near because of the smell? Sorry don't you mean because of the fat in the air making your lips sticky? No, definately the smell? Okay then. No censorship there. In all seriousness that change lept out at me as strange. Was the original just too gruesome for BONES?

- Poor Havoc, I kinda miss his 'I have the worst luck with women' line.

- God Mustang's ripping out Lust's stone was even more brutal than in the manga. Maybe just because of Lust's agonized scream after it happened.

- Bye bye Barry, we'll miss you sad.gif

- Hawkeye's voice actor has vindicated herself in my eyes. I have to admit I was a tiny apprehensive about her really girly voice, but she pulled off that shooting scene brilliant. The agony in her voice sold it to me so well. Not believed in grief like that in this series since episode 2.

- That being said why did they change Hawkeye emptying her clip, reloading, tossing aside her gun and then using her revolver to her having three guns? That was just weird but I guess it worked. She was just grabbing weapons and firing out of grief so it makes sense, I guess?

- How does BONES manage to make something already very brutal, even more brutal. Watching Lust being killed over and over again by Mustang was both awesome and almost a little disturbing. Lust's voice actress did a great job with her. Her screams were greatand made a chill run down my spine. Watching this I can't wait til he does the same thing to Envy

- Glad they kept Bradley, even if he did very little, he was necessary.

- Great ending, damn them ending before we hear his voice.


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Nzm
post Aug 13 2009, 06:17 AM
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QUOTE (TheSentinel @ Aug 13 2009, 04:35 AM) *
Not to jump on anyone for their opinions, but I'll offer one of my own.

IMNSHO (In My Not So Humble Opinion):

Lots of things switch formats: book to movie, tv show to movie, movie to book, comic to movie, manga to anime, anime to manga, etc. etc etc.

My best advice, don't try to confuse one for the other. They aren't identical pieces. Compare them all you wish, point out things you liked or disliked. Just don't expect perfection... its not possible.

I love the Manga, probably one of the best stories I've ever read (books included). I enjoyed the first anime (it led me to the manga). I'm loving the new anime. The manga remains better IMNSHO, but just because they aren't animating the manga frame by frame its not going to be a 'perfect' adaptation.

Enjoy the series (or don't, after all its you can make up your own mind).

Fourthed. It's called adaptation for a reason - they adapt the story, don't copy it. Anyway, wouldn't it be borinbg to watch the sxact copy of manga? You'd know what happens and what everyone says and... everything. There would be no surprise, no suspense. It would be more like a tribute to Arakawa's comics than the actual series.
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Zii
post Aug 13 2009, 06:49 AM
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QUOTE (Nzm @ Aug 13 2009, 10:47 PM) *
wouldn't it be borinbg to watch the sxact copy of manga?

People say this so often.
No.
Is it boring watching half a copy of the manga? ;D You watch for the same reason I do, presumably: I want to see this manga animated, because I love this series and an anime will give it a boost in life, both in my personal interest and in the fandom's interest (therefore prolonging it).

I know because of the nature of screen media that some changes need to be made for the adaptation. However, these changes shouldn't be removing everything that isn't an important plot point. They're cutting out good content for the sake of time and budget. Since they won't get another chance to do this justice, it's such a pity they couldn't get more from their investors.

QUOTE
You'd know what happens and what everyone says and... everything. There would be no surprise, no suspense. It would be more like a tribute to Arakawa's comics than the actual series.
We still know what happens and what everybody is saying. I don't watch all of the subbed episodes, because I don't need to - and the words of Japanese I understand can be counted on a pair of hands xD The only surprises are getting to some parts of the story in a different order (Maria Ross/Xerxes).

@ Tombow: Time for an 'argue in here plz' thread, amirite? (;
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theicecreamalche...
post Aug 13 2009, 11:31 AM
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Just watched it for a second time, and I'm impressed, but not overly so. Maybe the episode is not to blame because I couldn't find too much fault with it, but I think reading the manga first took away some impact or gave me impressions I thought would translate onto the screen. Still, it was definitely one of the best episodes so far and I'm looking forward to Ed abusing Hoho next week! Running the music a little before the credits was effective, I think they should do that more often. Although I missed Ed in this episode, I really think his absence gave the other cast a chance to shine, especially Al. His VA was excellent, she put so much into that speech about protecting others and Hawkeye, it made my spine tingle. Seeing Riza cry breaks my heart everytime and I think her VA did a great job. The screaming was very raw and intense.

One of my fave moments was Winry and Al reuniting - I wanted to hug them both! Great VAing again. I like that they included Mustang nearly crashing the car into Barry, the wet matchstick joke, Riza calling him an idiot, to name a few. Lust was evil, yet sexy...but why oh why did the boobs have to go boing! like that? Took the mood away a bit. The sound of her dying was pretty hellraising! Haha. Anyway, I'm sad to see her go, as well as Barry. Two great characters gone in one ep! I don't think cutting the battle with Envy was such a great loss (Plus, I find it interesting to see what they choose to insert and what they choose to omit for animation purposes) once I remind myself that they can't jam pack everything into 20 minutes and I certainly didn't want them to skim on the EPIC FIGHT. laugh.gif And oh my God, did Mustang kick ### or what? So awesome. I prefer his manga-style design so much more then FMA1's version. The eyes are better, for one.

Music was fine, though I didn't like what they used during Lust's death and I still think there should be more variety. Animation was better then in previous eps, although I could nit-pick about a few things like certain angles they chose to use. For example, when Mustang and Hawkeye are ordering Fuery about and when Fuery tosses Hawkeye her gun. That looked like it was meant to be some epic action shot but it came off awkward. The movements just strike me as wooden in some areas and perfectly fluid in others like the fight scenes.

I'm gonna try to see this as a seperate entitiy from the manga and judge it in its own right in the future, but I do think the manga material has more potential Bones could exploit then they're currently doing. Sticking panel for panel is obviously not possible, but my real gripe is that they are cutting corners and the quality is inconsistant. HOWEVER, it keeps getting better, though it didn't beat last week for me strangely, and I can't wait for more!

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thunderbreak
post Aug 13 2009, 02:39 PM
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i think this is a great ep.
course i dont want them to skip xing v envy fight entirely,but i almost forgot the existance of it while watching.i would like it to be included in another ep.and i do wish ling presence would be more until he become greed/ling

roy mustang
well i think he 's,well [All hail lord Xenu] this ep.from animation and his eyes...the determination look.i am glad that bones get the essenece of the manga not the form.and the lighter and philosopher sttone sound effect is excellent
Shinichiro Miki has done a great job as Roy in here,which tributes the awesomeness of roy in this ep.i've seen him in 2 not-that serious roles(ie urahara and in gintama).i think vs lust part is the best and i'm impressed.he is good when it showing him in a weakened form,and on his return,and in the final scene.

side note:i wish two scenes would follow the manga more/change it.one is the part where mustang pull out lust philosopher stone,but i think i'm quite ok with this deletion.and the other part is where riza trigger her gun.there's one part where they show her sideway,and i think it makes the scream sorta of uncoordinated.i think it should have shown riza more closer.and i 'm surprised the shots are not so forcefully as it's in the manga,but i dont want to whine that much cos this is an adaption.

Lust:is it me or lust claws are wolverine like?in the manga i have no notion of her claws are metallic.btw her seiyuu is awesome,from the first scene,her resurrection to the final scene(the deadly look the animation is drawn is great).for the boing sound--it's weird and i'm surprised it got on screen--it's a bit annoying .

for riza :i always wonder why fumiko orikasa did not sound her less girly,like she did in bleach and gintama.i just read the latter volumes and i got some inkling...ok back to topic.i think she done a good job,and i'm glad firstly that"kisama"line is not cut and performed well,the screams-i think it's very excellent.I think one dont care that much when someone the love left-but that just purely IMO.i think her interraction between al are good and touching(and the tempo is very excellently made here),and that's one of my favourite scene.and her interraction with roy are very well done.

nice to see kain part not deleted.but no havoc being squeezed by Al.

Al: brief,but yet very good.a strong speech btw.i never imagine his armor so shiny.his VA done a great job-and she definetely improves a lot/like icecream alchemist says,put a lot of effort.the scenes which they choose to flashback are very well chosen,especially the martel scene.unlike the hughes flashback,it's not too long n windy

Barry:i think his seiyuu done a great job of him.in previous ep he's very funny and have a good chemistry with the others.and at the scene at door of truth,i am impressed by his voice when he spoke of his body being rotten.a mixture of sadness and ironic(?).the scene where lust claws his armor are spectactcular.i like the part where the red eyes just vanish.the last scene between him & his body is v.touching,and the music is very sad.

winry:i like the final scene.the music ,thought not new,is excellent.winry va does improve IMo alot,and --nice gag

for the discussion above,i think what's important is to include the essence of the manga,including plot,story,characters and relationship.


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Elemental/Alchem...
post Aug 13 2009, 02:43 PM
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quick little appreciation post for this most Epic of episodes...
i could always see tid bits of Bones working magic in the other episodes, and they nail it when they need to (Hughes' episode 10 and now Roy's) ... and please make the flashback scenes of ishval and the full military campaign with Hughes, Roy, Riza etc. as epic as well

edit: riza's voice.. eh, it was fine to me, she's a tough in control woman and very poised, so if/when she ever breaks down it would probably be so hard mentally that it would break her physically, thus the fall and the high pitch/almost out of breath sound


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TheSentinel
post Aug 13 2009, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Zii @ Aug 13 2009, 09:49 AM) *
QUOTE (Nzm @ Aug 13 2009, 10:47 PM) *
wouldn't it be borinbg to watch the sxact copy of manga?

People say this so often.
No.


I actually agree. I'd love a frame by frame series. None the less, aside from some pacing issues, I'm overall pleased with brother hood.

QUOTE (Elemental/Alchemist @ Aug 13 2009, 05:43 PM) *
and please make the flashback scenes of ishval and the full military campaign with Hughes, Roy, Riza etc. as epic as well


YES PLEASE!


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BloodRed Alchemi...
post Aug 13 2009, 07:06 PM
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Yessss!! Absolutely perfect episode! There was nothing worth complaining about! EPIC!
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Full Metal Elf
post Aug 14 2009, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE (Jealous Rogo @ Aug 13 2009, 06:01 AM) *
- Okay first to address the main thing they removed from this episode, Ling and Lan Fan VS Envy and Gluttony. I am dissappointed to see this gone but at the same time, I'm not surprised nor do I think it's a great loss. It only served these purposes a. introducing Ling to the concept of Homunuculus (word of mouth will sort that out no doubt) and b. to introduce Envy's shapeshifting to Al and spark the conversation in the car, c. introducing that Lan Fan and Ling can recognise Homunculus by their weird energy and d. introducing, in voice, Pride (which is the only thing I'm really sad is gone)


Forgot about that! I need to re-read those chapters.

But actually...all those things I think are important, lol. I hope they work them in somehow in the future.


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Jealous Rogo
post Aug 15 2009, 03:28 AM
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QUOTE (Full Metal Elf @ Aug 14 2009, 06:31 PM) *
QUOTE (Jealous Rogo @ Aug 13 2009, 06:01 AM) *
- Okay first to address the main thing they removed from this episode, Ling and Lan Fan VS Envy and Gluttony. I am dissappointed to see this gone but at the same time, I'm not surprised nor do I think it's a great loss. It only served these purposes a. introducing Ling to the concept of Homunuculus (word of mouth will sort that out no doubt) and b. to introduce Envy's shapeshifting to Al and spark the conversation in the car, c. introducing that Lan Fan and Ling can recognise Homunculus by their weird energy and d. introducing, in voice, Pride (which is the only thing I'm really sad is gone)


Forgot about that! I need to re-read those chapters.

But actually...all those things I think are important, lol. I hope they work them in somehow in the future.


Yeah I kinda realised that after reading back what I wrote...

But looking ahead, all those things are easily introduced in other ways, most likely the Homunculus concept will be introduced to Ling next time he talks to Al or Ed


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post Aug 15 2009, 01:44 PM
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I loved this episode!! biggrin.gif
I really liked the Roy/Lust fight.

Poor Havoc. And Barry. sad.gif

And Hohenheim!!!! laugh.gif

I can't wait for the next one! biggrin.gif


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FullMetalFist
post Aug 23 2009, 09:02 PM
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I know I am a little behind, but I finished this episode and I thought it was great. The whole episode was rather intense. Havoc looked awesome running around incognito. He looked awesome. When Gluttony was in the tower with Hawkeye, I was like, O dang, this is bad. Black Cayate saved the day, kind of. And seeing Mustang burn Lust to a crisp was pretty awesome. It was a great episode.
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Michiyo-
post Jun 19 2010, 03:00 PM
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Please add FMA:B English dubbed episode 19 (on CN on Adult Swim) talk-back/discussions here. smile.gif


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