HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 13: Beasts Of Dublith - Content Discussion Thread, Warning, Spoilers for contents of ep 1 through ep 13
penguintruth
post Jun 29 2009, 01:37 AM
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The episode really made Greed and his crew seem like, well, chumps. Edward figures out Greed's whole deal pretty quickly and Izumi comes in and immediately subdues him, like he was nothing. Like he's some scrub mini-boss.

And, of course, all those back-and-forth bits between Greed's crew and Alphonse really take away from the charm of them. Greed seems so much less stylish and cool than he was in the first series. We don't see him with women, we don't see him waltz in to meet Al for the first time (meets him on the street), he's talking at a super fast speed to cram in all the explanations necessary. Greed just isn't all that cool here. Even his carbon armor mode seems lame, especially the way it's colored.

In fact, the character designer seems to have taken a vacation. Greed looks different from both his manga counterpart and first series one, and his crew are laughably bad in terms of design. They look sort of balloonish and awkward.

You know, in the manga, this arc is supposed to be the first one where the concept of homunculi are introduced. In the first series, they did that in the Laboratory 5 arc. Greed is the first homunculi who becomes a solid character, even if it is for a short time. Lust and the others were just sort of lurking in the background, but Greed shows off. So having this all sped through is ridiculous. Imagine this series is your introduction to FMA. It's being treated like a joke.



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Goral
post Jun 29 2009, 02:08 AM
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Yoki appeared out of nowhere, we don't know why he was with Ishbalans, who he was earlier (we know that he wasn't a beggar always since he said "I'll rise up once again", but nothing more), why would he hate Ed... If creators of this anime assume that everybody knows everything why do they make this anyway? It's done so poorly that I can't believe it can get better when Ling appears. For 13 episodes it's been either bad, very bad or pathetic. 13 episodes in a row it has been annoying me. So far I'm watching it only to see my favorite manga characters in motion but if it keeps up I might drop this series. I was so excited when I first heard there would be "proper" adaptation and I've met with such disappointment...
Al was portrayed as duffer, he was disabled in like 5 seconds. Meisun appeared suddenly, Izumi came out of nowhere, they didn't show her vomiting at the crocodile, Shig with babes, etc. etc. The dialog in 15th minute didn't make much sense to me. Maybe the subs were inaccurate:

Ed: A tatoo of Uroboros.
Greed: That's right. It would have been convenient if we could finish this with just Armor-kun here but wahtever.
E: If you're in cahoots with that lot then ask me directly.
G: "That lot?"
E: The guys who have that tatoo were in the 5th Laboratory. We met some guys who had affixed their souls to armor there.
G: Is that so? Well, that was a bit of a special case. I can't really do that.

To be honest all dialogs in this episode were messy. Ed knew from Bidoh why Al was kidnapped, so he shouldn't have asked Greed whether he was in cahoot with these homonculi. If Greed were then he wouldn't need Al, he could ask Lust about armors. It made Ed look stupid.
Overall, too much compression in one episode and too many stupid changes. It was worse than poor.


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Esty
post Jun 29 2009, 03:17 AM
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I agree with most of the things, that have benn said. Too much cutting.
By the way, have you noticed, at the beginning of the fight between Ed and Greed, Ed was wearing gloves as usual. Okay right, but when he transmuted his blade, even the glove of his left hand disappeard. It wasn't took or rip off, it disappeard between the scenes. Wired things, everythere we look. Is it possible, that the animation workers go easy on their job?
Let's hope it will get better soon.
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Forsaken Love
post Jun 29 2009, 03:17 AM
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^ lol i just read through all the new comments since my last visit, and it pains me so much but i realy do have to agree on all the negative feedback, it upsets me because I do know people that have this series as their introduction to fma, and im feelin i should say dont watch it and read the manga first because its not a very good intro, which i shouldnt have to do, i feel the makers are assuming that EVERYONE knows everything about FMA, and even if they do, thats even more reason to keep the adaptation faithful.

I agree completly with Goral, I'm very close to dropping this series, if it doesnt pick up in quality ALOT by the time Ling comes. I'm really annoied, I was so excited from the point i first heard about brotherhood in like august/september last year, and i really feel like i been cheated out of it, tsk so much for BONES not killing another FMA


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Mhacy
post Jun 29 2009, 07:06 AM
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The episode was great as ever...xD
though it's true that they skipped lots of manga scenes.
but i really enjoy watching it..

the fight scenes was so awesome.
Ed with blood is just so cute.
the funny scenes are just okay... biggrin.gif


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Tombow
post Jun 29 2009, 07:08 AM
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<PROGRAM NOTE>


QUOTE (Hagaren_4ever @ Jun 29 2009, 10:02 AM) *
Ok, maybe this isn't the place to put this question, but is the next episode the last episode of the season? Does that mean that we have to wait some time until they come out with an episode after that? Do we get another theme song and ending theme?

@Hagaren_4ever - I moved your post to Future Episode discussion thread, then replied to your post there. Please continue that discussion there. smile.gif


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Full Metal Elf
post Jun 29 2009, 09:12 AM
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Ehhh...

It could have been SOOO much better! I liked the Greed stuff in FMA1 better than this! T___T

They cut way too much and I felt no emotionally connections with Greed, Al, the Chimeras or even Ed.

They should have dragged Greed out into 3 episodes. He really deserves his time and so does the entire incident.


I still look forward to next week...that stuff is insane, I just hope they don't cut much.

And I continue to hope that when they catch-up to Manga-only stuff, they slow down a LOT.


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Vagrant
post Jun 29 2009, 03:44 PM
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It was fast and didn't seem to stop for any humour or intelligence. All the stuff with the Devil's Nest could only really be described as abrupt. Dialogue generally just seemed a bit weird. (maybe the translation?)

While it looked okay, and fairly clean when still, the animation was terrible. It was still a LOT of the time. The faces and everything just...Yeah. It was like a flash video or something.
The fights seemed to be animated fairly well though. (but I had a hard time watching them because the flash player I used on this ep chugged a bit)
They cut away from Greed's face transforming? Really?
Ed's rant and Izumi's housewife line just seemed ridiculous and not good. At all.
Also, was it just me or was Izumi's chest noticably bigger than usual? O_o

Next week: Greed's crucifiction? Amazing fight and ending for that bit, but...Already?

Haven't reread the manga version of this ep yet, will get to it and no doubt rant about it later.

By the way, only just managed to watch this episode subtitled. Haven't been able to find Eclipse subtitles anywhere, only raws on the usual sites. What's that about?


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Sannom
post Jun 29 2009, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE ("Vagrant")
Also, was it just me or was Izumi's chest noticably bigger than usual?


No, it's just a lot more noticeable in that dress. I got the same impression in the manga.
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Trakonda
post Jun 29 2009, 06:13 PM
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Although I've always been really positive of all the Brotherhood eps by now, I have to agree with everyone else here this time. Too many things were cut off this time.

Even the episode begun out of nowhere, when Ed and Al were already on the train station while Izumi told them they are not her apprentices anymore. It was kind of confusing. D: (or then it was simply the upload I saw that cut something from the beginning. After all, it didn't show even the opening video. )
Drawing style was kinda funny this time, too. Though I have to admit that while Ed's ranting scene looked way too much out of the series normal style (it reminded me of Gurren Lagann more.. ), it was pretty cool. :3

And the animation on fighting scenes was.. BRILLIANT. That's definitely a plus.
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Jen_Elric
post Jun 29 2009, 07:24 PM
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Eh, not the worst episode, but definetely not the best. I had some mixed feelings about this one.
I liked the fight scenes. The animation was done pretty well there. But the animation on some of the characters was not very good. Especially Doucette. He looked really weird!

I liked how they talked about the "truth" and how Al is going to try to remember it. Very important.
The pacing was fast. There should have been more drama. Instead, it was like them saying Greed being a Homuculus was nothing important. I don't know...

Yoki's appearance was okay. But I agree that him saying that he'll get back at Ed, with no reason why, was wayyy too out there. Maybe when he finally meets up with Ed, we'll get a quick flashback, or an explantion.

Ed screaming rant to Greed and Co. was so overdone, I couldn't stand to watch it!! It almost reminded me of Hulk!Cornello. Wayyyyy too much, and kinda cartoonish.
Well, I"m at least glad that they kept in the "I'm a housewife"! part. Even though it was changed to "A mere passing HOUSEWIFE!!!", I was glad to see that.

Oh! And my favorite part was when Roy told Jean to break-up with his new girlfriend (cuz he was going to Central). So funny! Poor Havoc. lol


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thunderbreak
post Jun 29 2009, 07:35 PM
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ok.i admit my memory on this chapter is blur,and

i think they cut out some things(maybe a lot).i 'm not sure if others agree,but i am a bit pissed off when they cut out the part where fuery,bread,havoc,hawkeye,falman is summoned.to me ,it's a good opportunity to introduce the characteristics of these characters.however they do include the havoc joke,which is one of my favs...but i wish they include roy"s laugh afterwards.
and yeah,ed scream,as trakonda says,it's too much
fight is perfect
and still some props for follow some of the manga scenes exactly
and yoki introduction,if all of us watch 1 season or manga it's fine and very funny to see cannibal Ed and Al
pic:http://forums.narutofan.com/showthread.php?t=515635&page=3
but those who doesnt watch it..well...i think they need too to attract new viewers.
izumi's awesome,but al scene is not handled well.as 4 character drawings-well i think it's all


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Animeoldtimer
post Jun 29 2009, 08:31 PM
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Actually, I don't know why but when I first started to read the manga I found myself almost skimming through the chapters surrounding Greed and his gang, so the speed of this episode didn't bother me much. I enjoyed it. However, I do agree a lot was cut out, but the Devil's Nest crew doesn't play quite as big a role in the Manga as they did in the first series and that's why I think it's rushed. I do agree that there should have been more development of Greed and his relationship with the chimeras because of what happens later in the manga.

I like that Izumi plays a bigger role in this series than in the first. I like her "housewife" statement because I'm a housewife too and feel strangely empowered by her character. thumbsup.gif


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Vagrant
post Jun 29 2009, 10:49 PM
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Oh my god, that episode was a freaking disaster. I just read the manga version of this episode up to when military types show up.

They missed characterisation between Izumi and the brothers at the start.

Cut short the stuff with Grumman. Kinda messed up that scene. Nice to see him though.

They missed that great part with all the military characters being called to Roy. With the characterisation like Hawkeye's aim being good, but in her own words "not good enough". You know, actually telling us anything about these characters seems a little important. I mean, christ, have Falman, Fuery and Breda even had lines in Brotherhood so far? Plus, animated, acted and with music, it would've been a really good scene.

I don't mind them missing the first bit with the lizard guy meeting the brothers, but his reporting back to Greed was a good setup and introduction for Greed, his lifestyle and his posse.

Scar's convo with his master just seemed better.

There was more personality for Greed's associates when waiting for Al.
(though in both versions I question how Dorchet or whatever was able to smell Al coming)

I can't explain but even bits that seem word for word, like Al meeting them and 'deciding on his own' and everything just seemed better in the manga. Like somehow the comedy and dramatic beats were off in the episode.

Factory chase should've been in.

I'd forgotten about this, but I didn't get the impression Martel had stretchy limbs in the episode, but I did in the manga. Might have just been my poor observation though.

The setup with Al captured while Izumi wonders where he is and such gave the manga arc a certain stability. Whereas the episode was all over the place.

Conversation with Al , Martel and Dorchet gave the chimeras personality and a sympathetic quality. And was better exposition than Greed just droning on.

Greed's introduction, friendly, cool, recognition of the ouroboros, Greed's opinion on other homonculi (first mention of Sloth?), Greed mentioning how he knows Al's "secret" (the gossip got to him from when Al got half blown up by Scar), Greed's motivations too...Just all of that; SO MUCH BETTER in the manga.
Al's attempt to escape is both cool and is further characterisation...
Facial reconstruction bit was good and suitably visceral in the anime, I'll give it that. But the set up of "I'm a homonculous and I'll prove it" was waaay inferior.
Greed speech about the impossible was much better.
Ed dead joke and the hypnosis bit also shouldn't have been missed.

Ed's assessment being missed isn't too bad, but the Fuhrer and Armstrong are important.

No Izumi kicking thug [All hail lord Xenu]? No Sig kicking giant [All hail lord Xenu]? No comedy relating to this? No further Chimera bashing by Izumi?

Housewife line was about as intense, but didn't have the stupid pause. Liked her berating Al in the manga.

Izumi coming in first and then Ed stuff was just a really weird change. No wonder the episode seemed so disjointed.

Gah, just had to rant. Sorry.


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kkg22104
post Jun 29 2009, 11:15 PM
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^Just more proof that the original manga is (almost) always better. Animes screw things up and give people bad impressions.


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