HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Chapter 96 "Regular" Discussion Thread For First Time Readers (and Others), No future chapter spoilers here, please. :)
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Kirara
post Jun 8 2009, 06:49 PM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Jun 8 2009, 06:25 PM) *
As obvious by the previous Philosopher's Stone made by Father, a person doesn't necessarily have to have seen the Doors of Truth to be a candidate for human sacrifice. He used an entire country, largely of nobodies and slaves in Xerxes. I think, though, that whatever he has planned, though, will be more successful if the sacrifices are talented alchemists who have seen the Doors. In other words, the main sacrifices are the people who have seen the Truth, but other human sacrifices are used as a base medium.

At least, this is my understanding of it.


I think these are too different things actually. The sacrifices used to make the stone are one thing. These I guess would be the people in the locations where all the violence is taking place. However I actually don't think Father is trying to just make a philosopher stone this time. Marcoh once theorized this as well and Envy only told him you were close.

However there are also the human sacrifice candidates. It seems Father needs 5 he already confirmed Ed, Al, & Hohenheim and possibly Izumi. It seems he needs one more refer back to the very end of chapter 73. Now we know these 4 can do alchemy without a circle because of Truth (well Hohenheim is a bit different). Roy & Marcoh are also possibilities but they have not seen Truth yet. And another thing although I often see this translated as human sacrifice candidate I also see it translated as human vessel.

So now I wonder if Father needs more of the 1st sacrifice (more human lives) or a couple more alchemists who have seen Truth. I guess we won't know until we see the actual chapter.
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penguintruth
post Jun 8 2009, 07:01 PM
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Hm, good point. After all, we don't quite know yet what Father is up to, and it does seem different than just making a Philosopher's Stone.

But still, I wonder if those other human lives are just the curious type you can use to make the stone, ordinary humans that Father needs for "filler" in his recipe for... whatever.

My guess? A giant Cowzilla that looks like Arakawa!


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Kirara
post Jun 8 2009, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Jun 8 2009, 08:01 PM) *
My guess? A giant Cowzilla that looks like Arakawa!


Now that would be quite sinister of Father. Just think of all the milk Ed might be forced to drink. laugh.gif
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penguintruth
post Jun 8 2009, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE (Kirara @ Jun 8 2009, 10:15 PM) *
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Jun 8 2009, 08:01 PM) *
My guess? A giant Cowzilla that looks like Arakawa!


Now that would be quite sinister of Father. Just think of all the milk Ed might be forced to drink. laugh.gif


Brutal!

I'll drink it for him. I like milk.


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Gimpyhair
post Jun 8 2009, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE (Kirara @ Jun 8 2009, 09:49 PM) *
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Jun 8 2009, 06:25 PM) *
As obvious by the previous Philosopher's Stone made by Father, a person doesn't necessarily have to have seen the Doors of Truth to be a candidate for human sacrifice. He used an entire country, largely of nobodies and slaves in Xerxes. I think, though, that whatever he has planned, though, will be more successful if the sacrifices are talented alchemists who have seen the Doors. In other words, the main sacrifices are the people who have seen the Truth, but other human sacrifices are used as a base medium.

At least, this is my understanding of it.


I think these are too different things actually. The sacrifices used to make the stone are one thing. These I guess would be the people in the locations where all the violence is taking place. However I actually don't think Father is trying to just make a philosopher stone this time. Marcoh once theorized this as well and Envy only told him you were close.

However there are also the human sacrifice candidates. It seems Father needs 5 he already confirmed Ed, Al, & Hohenheim and possibly Izumi. It seems he needs one more refer back to the very end of chapter 73. Now we know these 4 can do alchemy without a circle because of Truth (well Hohenheim is a bit different). Roy & Marcoh are also possibilities but they have not seen Truth yet. And another thing although I often see this translated as human sacrifice candidate I also see it translated as human vessel.

So now I wonder if Father needs more of the 1st sacrifice (more human lives) or a couple more alchemists who have seen Truth. I guess we won't know until we see the actual chapter.



Thank you, I really needed that explanation. Now I'm trying to do a summary of what I know right now.

Facts:

- Experiments during Ishval http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/59/02/ : 13 humans were used. No other humans were inside the array. Result: a small stone
- Xerxes http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/75/14/ : several neighbourhood (presumably 8) were used. There was a whole city inside the array. Hohenheim's blood was needed for Father to open the Gate. Results: a human stone and a body for Father, both of them are immortal.
- Amestris (present): several cities (presumably 8) were used. There's a whole country inside the array. 5 alchemists that have seen the Truth (if possible) are also needed. We don't know the results yet.


Speculations:

I think there's two kind of human sacrifice like Kirara says:
- there is those we are more familiar with http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/59/02/ , the neighbourhoods for Xerxes and populations like Ishval for Amestris.
- there is those that are the alchemists who have seen the Truth. If Father really need 5 of them, then maybe there's a relation to the array in the shape of a pentagon at the middle of the bigger array: http://www.onemanga.com/Full_Metal_Alchemist/59/04/ Or maybe Father wants to use their blood, like what he did with Hohenheim.

Also if:
small group of humans in 8 locations = small stone
several neighbourhood in 8 locations + whole city inside array + blood = human stone + body for Father + immortality for two persons
Then:
several cities in 8 locations + whole country inside array = something bigger

The something bigger could be a lot of thing. Maybe Father want to be a god-like character or be a new Truth.



Anyway, what do you think?


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Edamame
post Jun 8 2009, 11:23 PM
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Reading the spoilers for this upcoming chapter has me on the edge of me seat! I have been waiting for ages to see Hohenheim verse Father and redeem himself for the tragedy of the past. The thought of Father needing more human sacrifices as a posible base medium really sets my hair on end. I am still speculating as to who will become the next one of Father´s principal sacrifices (the alchemists or those who have seen Truth.) I have a feeling that alchemists such as Colonel Mustang, Mei, and Tim Marcoh are going to become quickly intertwined in whatever Father is scheming although they have no yet seen Truth. I am also worried about where Wrath will make his grand reintroduction., considering that it could put a great deal of characters in jeapordy. It is also going to be fascinating to see what role the final sins will play in Father´s plan. Part of me thinks that we haven´t yet seen the last of Gluttony. We also have to keep in mind that giant transmutation circle that Sloth was creating...

I a suppose my question now is that of everyone: Does Father need more humans as base "fodder" to start the fire, or does he need more alchemists?

-Part of me thinks that Father is up to more than just creating a Philosopher´s stone...


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Sweetdeath04
post Jun 9 2009, 03:28 AM
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The thing about the human sacrifices makes me shiver. I've been under the impression that 'human sacrifices' were alchemists who had seen the truth, but the theory about two sorts of human sacrifices makes sense. After all, Roy's group have been purposly not killing anyone. And we know that major battles have taken place in most (if not all) of the main points around the giant underground transmutation circle.

As for Wrath- glad he's back! Hoping to see a return of Grumman too!


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xXdark_angel_nek...
post Jun 9 2009, 06:13 AM
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@amestris_star thanks for the info. so can't wait for the big fight that father and hoho are going to do. i wonder who is going to win this fight. but who cares cause this fight will be epic. EPIC I SAY!!!!!!!!


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Animeoldtimer
post Jun 9 2009, 06:38 AM
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sad.gif I care who wins!. biggrin.gif wink.gif

I am looking forward to the battle, but hope there's some good dialogue as well.

I may be making this too simple, but I think Father is simply trying to free himself from the tubes he dependent on and to extend his life or become immortal.


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Hakoyanagi
post Jun 9 2009, 06:52 AM
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Maybe I'm confusing myself here, but didn't one of the homunculi say something once about how Roy can open the portal for them, or something?


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DistantBlue
post Jun 9 2009, 07:04 AM
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QUOTE
Maybe I'm confusing myself here, but didn't one of the homunculi say something once about how Roy can open the portal for them, or something?




Hmm....

Right now my thinking is that Wrath is going to show up where Scar, Ed, Mustang, and Hawkeye are.


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QUOTE (Alzea @ Jul 16 2009, 07:49 AM) *
DistantBlue, I just can see this, demotivational poster:
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Gimpyhair
post Jun 9 2009, 07:27 AM
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QUOTE (DistantBlue @ Jun 9 2009, 10:04 AM) *
QUOTE
Maybe I'm confusing myself here, but didn't one of the homunculi say something once about how Roy can open the portal for them, or something?




Hmm....

Right now my thinking is that Wrath is going to show up where Scar, Ed, Mustang, and Hawkeye are.


"Have him open the gate"

Kill Hawkeye and make Mustang do a human transmutation? sad.gif ***WORRIED***


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Turdaewen
post Jun 9 2009, 07:34 AM
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QUOTE (Gimpyhair @ Jun 9 2009, 11:27 AM) *
QUOTE (DistantBlue @ Jun 9 2009, 10:04 AM) *
QUOTE
Maybe I'm confusing myself here, but didn't one of the homunculi say something once about how Roy can open the portal for them, or something?

Hmm....
Right now my thinking is that Wrath is going to show up where Scar, Ed, Mustang, and Hawkeye are.


"Have him open the gate"

Kill Hawkeye and make Mustang do a human transmutation? sad.gif ***WORRIED***

God, I hope not! That would the biggest cliché EVER. I would be extremely disappointed in Arakawa if she followed such a lame plot O.o
She has always been so creative about her plots and outcomes... It would be really a downfall.

Unless they intended to do so, but Wrath changed his mind... since he's also a very 'human' homunculus... That would fit the 'hints' about him somewhat admiring the humans and actually liking his wife and everything.


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DistantBlue
post Jun 9 2009, 07:38 AM
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QUOTE
"Have him open the gate"

Kill Hawkeye and make Mustang do a human transmutation? sad.gif ***WORRIED***


That has long been a popular speculation...with these spoilers it does seem a bit more likely, but I still have the nagging feeling its too obvious and definitely too cliche for Arakawa, as Turdaewen said. Also, I like your theory on Wrath changing his mind.

If something like that did happen, It would also work for a theory I posted a while ago in the Ch. 95 forum. In 95, Hawkeye said, to put it into blunt terms, that she would kill herself if Mustang were to be killed. This is clearly stated, and makes me think that Arakawa would not have that scenario occur. However, if the REVERSE happens, with Hawkeye getting killed, it would not only play into that theme, but two other themes as well -

-wanting to protect his subordinates and have them protect those below them
-Mustang opening the gate

I for one think it's too cliche for Arakawa to even think about. But now that we are getting closer to the end I think anything sounds sensible to discuss.


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QUOTE (Alzea @ Jul 16 2009, 07:49 AM) *
DistantBlue, I just can see this, demotivational poster:
QUOTE
Observation skillzShe haz them

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Reta McClain
post Jun 9 2009, 08:28 AM
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I personally think that instead of messing with the underground situation, Bradley will go to the radio station and mess up the situation in the city.

Up there, we've Roy-tachi pretending to side with Führer on the radio station with Mrs. Bradley. Bradley could just go there and take over the command of Breda, Fuery, Ross etc. and they would have to obey to a certain point, especially if Mrs. Bradley is still with them. Their, and media's, hands would be tied. This would also make it harder for them to get rid of Bradley at any point, because they've established themselves as being in his side.

After this Bradley could at least theoretically take over the larger part of the military again, because high ranked Generals on his side know he's a homunculus and they'd be screwed with daddy if they tried to rebel. After this Bradley could possibly eliminate Roy-tachi and the Briggs gang.

Or not. Briggs gang has Izumi xP

Besides that, they're doing pretty well overthrowing the government so Bradley could be helpless up there. Then he could go to have some tea with Ed, Scar, Hawkeye and Roy.

(Looks like I'm back in the fold again xD Upper Secondary School [high school] is a killer.)


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