HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 10: Separate Destinations - Content Discussion Thread, Warning! Spoilers for the first 10 episodes!!
Vagrant
post Jun 7 2009, 11:38 PM
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I just watched the original anime version and I think the funeral was no better, except for the music. I think a lot of the reason I was disappointed was because the shock was gone. I've already seen this plot twist and the sadness of it twice.

But I agree with FullMetalFist on the hesitation being too much. It was the same in the manga and the old anime, but yeah.


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Radadinator
post Jun 8 2009, 12:22 AM
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I saw the episode with subs, finally.

It looks as if they spent most of the budget on the second half of the episode (and it shows), but I don't really mind, since the lighting and the colors were on par with the Nina episode. Man, if all else fails, the colors save the episode.

The phonebooth scene was great, except that it would've been more effective if Envy spoke in Gracia's voice, in my opinion. I didn't have any problems with the blood on the photo, but Hughes' last words were over-the-top. (At least it wasn't any ghost waving bye to Ed.)
Then again, judging by the director's other series, it looks like he likes to make sad scenes overly emotional.

The funeral scene with Elysia...well, I felt the emotion coming, but at that moment, a background noise with the worst timing ever went off and I ended up laughing right when they were shoveling dirt on the coffin. Man I feel like a terrible person now.

Overall, a pretty good episode. Not looking forward much to the next episode, but the animation looks good, so I'll probably be distracted. The one thing I can't wait to see is Bradley in a Hawaiian T-shirt. They had better keep that in.

Edit: About the hesitation thing, I guess Envy enjoyed seeing Hughes dying right at his feet. Then again, I'm probably looking too much into this.
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penguintruth
post Jun 8 2009, 12:52 AM
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Wow. This was probably my favorite episode of the series thus far, I honestly enjoyed it quite a bit. Is it as good as episode 25 of the first series? Well, maybe not. Still, some consideration has to be made for the fact that I expected the events of this episode. Other than that, it was masterfully done, except for a few little nagging details.

But first, some positives. The scene at the beginning during the Ishbal massacre was awesome. It was actually from one of my favorite moments in the manga. I only wish that they had given the Fuhrer's thoughts like in the manga, and how he looked down at Roy and saw him staring not at him, but beyond him, seeing the fierce ambition in his eyes. But perhaps they'll revisit that in the future.

The purpose of the Ishbal conflict was for the same reason episode 25 of the first series had that bit where Hughes finds Roy depressed and promises to help lift him him to the top position in the country. Whoever decided to add this flashback was very wise in doing so, because it had the same effect of showing the viewer just what a big supporter of Roy he was.

I found the scene with the Fuhrer somewhat amusing, not because of the humor, but because in that scene were all voice talents that reprised their roles for the second series. The Elrics, Hughes, Armstrong, and Bradley were all the same voices that they were in the first series, and there they all were in the same scene. It made me smile.

As for the humor of the scene, it was somewhat disturbted by the fact we clearly saw a different nature of the Fuhrer in the first episode, the anime-only episode with Isaac. I knew it would eventually have some consequences. I mean, even if I wasn't already aware of the Fuhrer's true nature, I think if this was my first exposure to FMA, I'd still be expecting something wicked every time I saw him.

The scene in which Hughes dies is done fairly well, except for a few things that bothered me. For one, they lingered over it for too long, and it took away from the suddeness of it. Not only did they add blood leaking over the family photo, but Hughes didn't die right away, he was dying and even had last words after being shot. It felt like they were dragging it out a tad.

And while that was too long, on the other hand, the funeral was a little shorter and the episode spent a bit of time with the investigation, which should have been saved for the next episode or the one after that. Part of the impact of the first series' 25th episode was that it ended so shortly after the funeral, with that sort of ghostly appearance of Hughes at a train station, waving at Ed. If they had shown Roy talk with Riza and Armstrong after that scene, it wouldn't have meant as much.

The next episode is Rush Valley, and while it was my least favorite part of the manga, I'm too much of a FMA fan to just skip it. Mercifully, it will only be one episode, then onto Izumi.


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Elemental/Alchem...
post Jun 8 2009, 01:17 AM
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QUOTE (Tsuppi @ Jun 8 2009, 12:10 AM) *
@Animeoldtimer: Olivier ? Really? Also I read that the code he used, USO800, has significance to what he was trying to call about, since uso = lie.
....
The adaptation was faithful to the manga and more importantly, honest. Someone mentioned that it was all meant to be crude and abrupt and shocking. Can't disagree. Anyway, back to my point--the manga was followed chronology-wise faithfully, except for the flashback (anyone notice how crisp and bright they made the colours in the normal scenes, compared to flashbacks and dreams?) and placing Scar's dream and awakening at the slums in episode 9 (a perfect thing to have done, since everything that had gone on beforehand was about how family can stick together--since Scar's family didn't quite stick together).
very good pick up of the the term "uso" i noticed it in the manga but never thought much of it
and yup that was me with the crude statement - and now having finally given in to seeing it w/ unofficial subs i can safely say my friend who told me it was crude was right...
it bears repeating - whatever you thought of this one in comparison to the Ep.25 of Anime1, this followed Ms. Arakawa's panels in indicating a sudden and crude end of life...
Truthfully I never liked the suddenness of it, but alas that's just how life is... Maybe I always wanted to see something else occur around the corner, something else to show the intensity of the situation Hughes knew about but we don't yet know about (in similar vein when a supporting actor dies in a movie, occasionally that one is the guy who knew something the rest didn't, and the lead up to his demise is drawn out)....

But then we come to penguintruth's point:
QUOTE (penguintruth @ Jun 8 2009, 03:52 AM) *
The scene in which Hughes dies is done fairly well, except for a few things that bothered me. For one, they lingered over it for too long, and it took away from the suddeness of it. Not only did they add blood leaking over the family photo, but Hughes didn't die right away, he was dying and even had last words after being shot. It felt like they were dragging it out a tad.

And while that was too long, on the other hand, the funeral was a little shorter and the episode spent a bit of time with the investigation, which should have been saved for the next episode or the one after that. Part of the impact of the first series' 25th episode was that it ended so shortly after the funeral, with that sort of ghostly appearance of Hughes at a train station, waving at Ed. If they had shown Roy talk with Riza and Armstrong after that scene, it wouldn't have meant as much.
There's no doubt about it, the team behind the episode knew that they'd have to make it fit the manga, but that in an Anime they have artistic freedom to move beyond the fixed black and white pages...
So I give props for the extra scene added after the shot, I feel like it was Bones' way of saying "hey we know this is how it's being done, but we're gonna give a little extra b/c 1) it's an important turning point in the story and 2) everyone already knows what happens (or most did)"
And that's a tough thing to get past, most of us already knew this was coming - I remember being very emotional when I watched the first one, and took extra time to read the chapter when I came to it...
But now, well, I just wanted to make sure a good story was told - longer, shorter, w/e, I think they did a good job accomplishing this...
As well I'm happy they made sure to include Riza at the end - a major connection...
Hughes is a major reason Roy does what he does, and Riza is now the one remaining close friend he has (the military team is a team yes, but it was Hughes and Riza who supported in closeness his goals) - now Hughes' death brings them closer, and we'll surely see them draw this out as well as it is seen in the manga

Lastly, Hughes/Roy and Roy/Riza is one of the most compelling and interesting relationships in manga in my opinion, and it looks like they'll do them good justice in the episodes to come, thank you Bones.


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Claudius
post Jun 8 2009, 01:38 AM
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Hey, did anyone realize the future significance of Hughes knocking down one of Lust's life-points?
In chapter 39, Lust was so very close in putting her finger through Roy's head, but disintegrated. She would have succeeded if she had one life-point left. In essence, Hughes saved his best friend's life.
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Elemental/Alchem...
post Jun 8 2009, 01:41 AM
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@Claudius very interesting idea, never thought that... makes for a smile when you put it like that happy.gif


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FullMetalFist
post Jun 8 2009, 04:33 AM
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Another thing that bothered me is the speed the series is going at, its going way to fast, I do not care if I already saw this, they need to slow the series down now or they will never slow down. You can not just get to one episode and then slow the pace down in a very obvious manner. I think they need go start hitting the brakes now. In this series I feel like we never really got to know Hughes as a character and now he is dead. At least in the first series we had 25 eps to get to know him in. I know he was not in all of these episodes but we had more time. I cant help but have a bitter taste in my mouth when it comes to this episode. One of the best things about this series is getting to see some familiar scenes done a in a different perspective but they need to slow this brain train down.
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Kyelinn
post Jun 8 2009, 04:43 AM
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QUOTE (FullMetalFist)
I was very disappointed with this episode, I think Hughes's death was not dramatic enough(his funeral is what I am referring to). I really did not feel it, the original series sold his death a lot more. It had the booming music at his funeral and it was much more devastating. They really got to up their music. It just did not do it for me, I wish it would have had a little more sadness to it. The actual death scene looked good, with his blood oozing onto his family picture. I really did not care for the way he was shot, your telling me he froze up over envy turning into his wife so he would die and never see his real wife again. Ya I know envy would have killed him eventually any way considering she does not die like a human being. I almost felt like hughes died like a wimp and that makes me sad. I know it follows the manga, but that is how I feel. I sleep on it and think about is some more and see if I change my mind.

How else would you expect him to die? I mean Envy looked like his WIFE. If somebody that looked like my husband was about to shoot me, I'd probably freeze up too. Also, Hughes was brutally injured. I'm sure it was hard enough for him to walk, especially from losing so much blood from Lust's attack. I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with you. I just can't see how that'd make him a wimp.


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FullMetalFist
post Jun 8 2009, 05:17 AM
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I guess you are right about that, Hughes is not a wimp. I just liked how he cut envy's throat in the first series first and then envy turned into his wife. It showed the soldier side of Hughes more because you actually got to see him knife her. I know he knifed lust in this series but you did not get to see it. Hughes was a soldier and I wanted to see it, so I guess wimp was not the right word.
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Krokgard
post Jun 8 2009, 05:32 AM
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Very good episode.
I loved the war sequence in the beginning, even if is so short;
I agree with the one who said that in this episode Winry looks like a head taller than Ed... it's a bit ridicolous XD!
I just didn't like the final part of Hughes ' death; when he says "sorry Elicia, Gracia, I couldn't keep the promise". I think it's a bit useless. Also the blood on the photo, looks like paint. They would have to emphasize the "don't bury papa!" part, instead.

Hey, this time they won't do the Here Come Black Hayate part? That omake is fantastic, I want to see it animated in this series!
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Kasumisty
post Jun 8 2009, 05:34 AM
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QUOTE (Krokgard @ Jun 8 2009, 02:32 PM) *
Hey, this time they won't do the Here Come Black Hayate part? That omake is fantastic, I want to see it animated in this series!



What's more, Black Hayate is present in future episodes, how would they introduce him : <


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mira mirth
post Jun 8 2009, 06:21 AM
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QUOTE (Tsuppi @ Jun 8 2009, 07:10 AM) *
And for something completely different: WINRY'S HAIR IS ALIVE. How well could you possibly animate her bowing? Gosh!! <3


I know! For some reason, I noticed her hair too in that scene =)

I think it's a good episode. Hughes's death can obviously only have real impact once - I'd been shocked in FMA1 - but it was still done well enough to make me sad about it. Hughes is one of my favourite characters... so unfair that horrid Envy lives and lovely Hughes dies.

It was great to see Hughes putting things together before he died, although it was incredibly frustrating that he didn't have time to tell Roy about it. I love me intelligent characters =) And it was cool the way he, under pressure, dizzy from blood loss, immediately spotted that Envy was not Maria Ross. I mean, how observant do you need to be to notice a mole out of place under those circumstances?

I also really liked Roy's remark about alchemists being horrible people, because he was putting a theory of human transmutation in his head. Then again, I generally enjoy references to the way alchemists' minds work and how they differ from normal people. (Anyone who can draw a perfect circle is crazy, they say.)

And the Roy/Armstrong conversation was fantastic. I love it when characters talk about plot in serious voices ^___^
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Goral
post Jun 8 2009, 07:27 AM
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Oh man... That was awful. Hughes' death elicited no reaction from me. Partly it was because I've seen his death too many times but the main reason for this were little screen time of my favourite character and ridiculous way in which his death was presented. For starters, Hughes' talking to himself aloud was a bit strange (I know it was the same in previous anime and manga but they could change it to thoughts, who in his right mind talks to himself aloud, especially things that shouldn't be heard by anyone?) Another thing that I found strange was Lust's appearance. How did she manage to infiltrate military building? Were the guards aware that she has special permission to be there? Or were there no guards at all? But all of this is insignificant compared to what came next.

The most ridiculous part of this episode was when Hughes walked through the corridor while being injured and the secretary did NOTHING! In manga she was about to give him first aid at least but here she was only staring at him like a retard. Also Hughes didn't try to do anything, write a message using his blood or use some sort of code. He wanted to speak to Mustang only instead of going to some public places, using a car or sth along those lines. While I can understand it in a way (he thought that Lust was dead so he probably assumed that he's not in immediate danger) they could try to make his wound look a bit less serious (he shouldn't be trudging). Equally ridiculous was his prolonged staring at his future murderer doing nothing as well as Envy's babbling. It lasted too long, they should show that he tried to injure her but Envy managed to dodge (or not, it wouldn't matter because she wouldn't die anyway) IMO. I know he loved his wife like crazy but she wasn't even sounding like her. It took them 20 seconds to finally make a move !!! What's more, his last words only ruined the mood IMO. I remembered Bugs Bunny episodes when Bugs was parodying death scenes by talking, talking and talking... But that's not all. How did he pull out his knife? I mean, he had to wave his hand only a bit so that the knife would drop but somehow it didn't fall out earlier. Also a while back he couldn't move his right hand but few minutes later it was good as new, he could stretch it as he liked and even stop his hand's momentum as if it was nothing to him.
All in all, in FMA1 Hughes scene was done much, MUCH better and it only shows that I can't expect much from this version.

QUOTE (Radadinator @ Jun 8 2009, 09:22 AM) *
(...) The phonebooth scene was great, except that it would've been more effective if Envy spoke in Gracia's voice, in my opinion. (...)

That would be stupid. How exactly could Envy know how Gracia's voice sounded? For once creators of FMA:B used their brains.


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Kirara
post Jun 8 2009, 07:50 AM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Jun 8 2009, 12:52 AM) *
But first, some positives. The scene at the beginning during the Ishbal massacre was awesome. It was actually from one of my favorite moments in the manga. I only wish that they had given the Fuhrer's thoughts like in the manga, and how he looked down at Roy and saw him staring not at him, but beyond him, seeing the fierce ambition in his eyes. But perhaps they'll revisit that in the future.


I certainly hope they revisit that scene in the future because Bradley's line is very important. Well I guess this was from Roy's perspective so he wouldn't have heard Bradley's line only seen him staring at him. But yeah I would be really upset if when they do the Ishval flashback they don't include the line. It's one of my favorites in the manga.


QUOTE (Goral @ Jun 8 2009, 07:27 AM) *
Another thing that I found strange was Lust's appearance. How did she manage to infiltrate military building? Were the guards aware that she has special permission to be there? Or were there no guards at all? But all of this is insignificant compared to what came next.


While this is never explained outright I do think as the series go on you can put two and two together on why and how she managed to be there.


As for the secretary I think they did try to show that she was in shock and before she could do anything Hughes was already out the door. But I do agree that the manga did it better by showing she had the first aid kit.


But anyways I am surprised that people who read the manga are complaining that Hughes death was not as tragic because that is exactly how it is done in the manga. I do understand this complaint from people who only watched the first anime because they would expect to get the same response. The only sad scene in the manga is the funeral scene. In fact this version added in extra scenes to make it appear more tragic. And personally I don't think they worked quite as well because they were added in the last minute. The first anime went for tragic because a major beloved character had died. The manga went for shocking. Of course shocking is not going to work as well as tragic when you already know what happened. But I don't see why people should complain about this because in the end the anime and manga's purpose for Hughes death is entirely different. In the anime it was a major event, the death of a major beloved character. In the manga Hughes is a minor character (seems to be very hard to accept for some people) but his death ends up shaping characters (one in particular) in a major way.
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Claudius
post Jun 8 2009, 09:38 AM
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Hughes' problem about not wanting to shoot the likeness of his wife reminds me of a quote by Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer...
"Love isn't brains. It's blood, screaming inside you to work its will. I may be Love's B----, but at least I'm man enough to admit it."

In short, Maes Hughes was Love's B----.

Still wish they gave some background Hughes-Gracia scenes...
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