HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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FMA-1 Vs. FMA:Brotherhood Discussion: Comaparing FMA-1 anime series vs FMA:Brotherhood, How each/both series measures up in your opinion? (Spoiler Warning!
FMA-1 Vs. FMA:Brotherhood Discussion: Comaparing FMA-1 anime series vs FMA:Brotherhood
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Claudius
post Jan 15 2011, 05:39 AM
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QUOTE (Misty- Nala @ Jan 14 2011, 02:52 PM) *
QUOTE (Kirara @ Jan 5 2011, 12:26 AM) *
I also hated how Ed and Al just left Winry with barely a second thought. She was way too unimportant in the grand scheme of things


Well, Winry was never the center of attention in Anime 1. The focus was on the brothers and everyone else was, sadly, forgotten. Elrics goal had also been in the Anime to be together. his Since Edward decided to sacrifice himself and close the gate and thus enable his world to live in peace, Al had only a moment. He had to decide pretty much in a few seconds whether to stay or follow brother who he had searched for two years. Yeah, blood is thicker than water.
And it is not like Winry is all alone. Unlike the manga version, this Winry has friends outside of the Elrics.

Sailor Moon? Misty-Nala, go check this link about my comments on the manga. My name is A.Magik, and you might like what I felt about Envy's fate.

http://www.toonzone.net/forums/showthread....mist&page=5
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KingLes98
post Jan 15 2011, 11:18 PM
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Well... I like FMA-1 because I like to have artistic value in my anime and FMA-1 had a ton. Some scenes that comes to mind is when they used music from Beethoven and Chopin. The art and FMA-1 was bright and colorful which brought the world they were in to life, the music is amazing ranging from Russian choirs to outstanding orchestral music that has melody and soul, the characters are very 3-dimensional. I like how Edward starts out as a kid and as time goes on he becomes more of an adult and I felt that Edward really cared about his brother Al. All and all I felt like FMA-1 was a masterpiece of a drama. It didn't feel like a shonen anime it felt like a drama.

Brotherhood is alright in my opinion. I didn't like the art style though. It isn't colorful which made the world they were in seem dull to look at. The music had much the same problem, it didn't have melody which really didn't add to the overall presentation and I felt like Edward was more of an action hero than a kid learning to grow into adulthood. But one thing that REALLY bothers me is the amount of gore and comic relief. I don't mind gore or comic relief but the show seems to be scared of taking itself seriously and it doesn't help that a gory scene takes place IN THE SAME EPISODE as some over the top comic relief scene. Anyways Brotherhood is an okay anime in my opinion.
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rosieechan
post Jan 16 2011, 01:18 PM
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Okay, here we go again...
my point is the I enjoyed manga/BH for its positive note...it gives me a certain feeling--a hopeful feeling. Just as you can say that the manga is overboard with friendships and such, I say that FMA-1 goes overboard with displaying emotional moments. sleep.gif The manga left me with a great satisfaction, I think she did a brilliant job telling the story--she tied everything in the end. FMA-1 didn't give me the same feeling, it felt as if I was missing something. So in the end, it all comes down to a matter of opinion.

But as for this...
QUOTE (Claudius @ Jan 15 2011, 07:39 AM) *
And it is not like Winry is all alone. Unlike the manga version, this Winry has friends outside of the Elrics.


Wait. What?
How does Winry not have friends outside the Elrics? What about Mr. Garfiel? The entire town of Rush Valley? The Xingese? Arakawa-sensei even drew a picture of Winry and Mei baking an apple pie. I am surprised you don't think Winry has friends outside of the Elrics in the manga...o_O That was the whole point in the scene after the confrontation with Scar--Winry recieves a call from Mr. Garfiel and the others begging for her to come back...


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EdWin :: AlMei :: LingFan :: Royai
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Misty- Nala
post Jan 17 2011, 08:32 AM
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QUOTE (rosieechan @ Jan 16 2011, 10:18 PM) *
QUOTE (Claudius @ Jan 15 2011, 07:39 AM) *
And it is not like Winry is all alone. Unlike the manga version, this Winry has friends outside of the Elrics.


Wait. What?
How does Winry not have friends outside the Elrics? What about Mr. Garfiel? The entire town of Rush Valley? The Xingese? Arakawa-sensei even drew a picture of Winry and Mei baking an apple pie. I am surprised you don't think Winry has friends outside of the Elrics in the manga...o_O That was the whole point in the scene after the confrontation with Scar--Winry recieves a call from Mr. Garfiel and the others begging for her to come back...


You're right, rosieechan. That sounds a little odd. huh.gif I am not a mind-reader but as you listed the friends Winry had, maybe Claudius meant she doesn't have friends nearby.
Paniya, Mr Garfield and gang live Rush Valley which is pretty far from Resembool. The Xingese went back to Xing so she won't see Mei too often.
If we take the CoS point of view, which probably was the point here. Winry had Paniya and Sheska, who we can safely assume to be Winry's best friend in anime 1. Oh, and Rose was in Risembuul too. So, even after the Elrics left, she would still have friends around her.
But I'm just guessing here! biggrin.gif


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rosieechan
post Jan 17 2011, 08:49 AM
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QUOTE (Misty- Nala @ Jan 17 2011, 10:32 AM) *
You're right, rosieechan. That sounds a little odd. huh.gif I am not a mind-reader but as you listed the friends Winry had, maybe Claudius meant she doesn't have friends nearby.
Paniya, Mr Garfield and gang live Rush Valley which is pretty far from Resembool. The Xingese went back to Xing so she won't see Mei too often.
If we take the CoS point of view, which probably was the point here. Winry had Paniya and Sheska, who we can safely assume to be Winry's best friend in anime 1. Oh, and Rose was in Risembuul too. So, even after the Elrics left, she would still have friends around her.
But I'm just guessing here! biggrin.gif


I see what you mean by the Xingese. happy.gif
But Winry pretty much lives and works in Rush Valley, so...and in the BH epilogue, we see her family with Paninya and Mr. Garfiel
and also just a theory, but Mei probably will come back with Al and visit or even live in Amestris often.
I'm guessing here, too. 8D
But I get what you're saying by her having close friends in FMA-1.


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EdWin :: AlMei :: LingFan :: Royai
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Tezrath
post Jan 18 2011, 10:48 AM
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QUOTE (KingLes98 @ Jan 16 2011, 12:18 AM) *
I felt like FMA-1 was a masterpiece of a drama. It didn't feel like a shonen anime it felt like a drama.

Brotherhood is alright in my opinion. I didn't like the art style though. It isn't colorful which made the world they were in seem dull to look at. The music had much the same problem, it didn't have melody which really didn't add to the overall presentation and I felt like Edward was more of an action hero than a kid learning to grow into adulthood.


Yeah, FMA-1 had drama... too much of it for my taste. They went overboard in my opinion, and Ed constantly seemed depressed or near crying. I didn't like that, but if you did: all the power to you. I did love some of the music though.

'Action hero'? More so in FMA:B? Seriously, it was FMA-1 that absolutely had to have the "alchemist-of-the-week" battles. FMA:B had no problem not having any fighting for episodes at a time, or even not having Ed in some episodes at all. As for the ending fight... yeah; that was predictably shonen... unfortunately dry.gif

I felt that Ed grew a lot in FMA:B though, as did many of the other characters. He certainly isn't the same character from the Father Cornello episode (3) to the final ones (50-ish). But what I like even more is that you get to see the other characters go through their own journey's as well. That it's NOT all about Ed.... or even just about the brothers. Which if you look at it, is kind of ironic given the title laugh.gif
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xUltimate_Shield...
post Jan 18 2011, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (Tezrath @ Jan 18 2011, 11:48 AM) *
I felt that Ed grew a lot in FMA:B though, as did many of the other characters. He certainly isn't the same character from the Father Cornello episode (3) to the final ones (50-ish). But what I like even more is that you get to see the other characters go through their own journey's as well. That it's NOT all about Ed.... or even just about the brothers. Which if you look at it, is kind of ironic given the title laugh.gif


I completely agree. In FMA-1, I felt as though every character was one-toned. Ed was always angry and upset, Roy was always angsting, Winry was always desperate and pathetic, Riza was always monotone, etc. I felt as though none of the characters really got the chance to develop and change and resolve all of the pain within themselves.

For example, Winry never faced Roy about her parents in FMA-1, so that was never resolved. But in Brotherhood, in her dispair of confronting Scar as the killer, points a gun at him sobbing. Both her and Scar learn and change from this encounter and resolve problems within themselves. After seeing the vengeance in Winry's eyes, Scar begins to look at his own vengeance for killing State Alchemists.

Roy is upset over Hughes in FMA-1, of course, but nothing ever comes from it. He's just consistently sad. In Brotherhood, he actually finds out Envy was the real killer and let's all of his anger and vengeance out in one blow, letting out his own bottled up feelings of hate. Riza points a gun to him and tells him he can't kill Envy because he's doing it for the wrong reasons and all, and in the end he doesn't kill Envy and the incident helps him resolve his grief over his friend and changes him and betters him as a character.

Riza did nothing really in FMA-1, I'm sorry. She just drove Roy around and spoke very monotone. In Brotherhood she shows a range of emotions and her relationship with Roy especially is a lot deeper and shows more of her struggling character that is never touched on in FMA-1. When Roy goes on a rampage after Envy, she's forced to threaten to shoot him and goes through painful emotions. Not only that, but she was in Ishval along with Roy in Brotherhood, where she also went through some strong emotions that she carries with her in life, but instead of just angsting about them, she uses those memories and feelings to help her move forward in her goal and want to be in the military.

As for Ed... he just was always the same in FMA-1. Always angry about something, always regretting something. In Brotherhood, his maturity growth is very apparent. One example would be he never completely comes to terms with Hoenheim in FMA-1, but in Brotherhood he resolves all of his hate with him. Ed doesn't seem to resolve much of anything in FMA-1. I feel as though in the end of Brotherhood he was on a more changed, happy note as an outcome of all of his hard struggle, where in FMA-1 he was very mellow and one-toned in the end.

Not to mention a bunch of other characters that aren't in FMA-1 with great side stories and emotions and struggles that they all resolve and overcome in such a powerful way. But in FMA-1, they just stay the same.

As for the music though... I give it credit. FMA-1 had beautiful music. I'm sad that Brotherhood's music really isn't that good at all.


--------------------

Roy x Riza ~ Ling x Lan Fan ~ Ed x Winry ~ Havoc x Rebecca
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Kirara
post Jan 18 2011, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE (Misty- Nala @ Jan 14 2011, 02:52 PM) *
QUOTE (Kirara @ Jan 5 2011, 12:26 AM) *
I also hated how Ed and Al just left Winry with barely a second thought. She was way too unimportant in the grand scheme of things


Well, Winry was never the center of attention in Anime 1. The focus was on the brothers and everyone else was, sadly, forgotten. Elrics goal had also been in the Anime to be together. his Since Edward decided to sacrifice himself and close the gate and thus enable his world to live in peace, Al had only a moment. He had to decide pretty much in a few seconds whether to stay or follow brother who he had searched for two years. Yeah, blood is thicker than water.



Well that is one of my issues with the first anime. It wasn't even that the first anime mainly focused on Ed & Al it was that they were the center of everything and everything revolved around them.

There were some moments I liked in the first anime, like when Roy got angry that Ed and Al didn't come to him for help. But moments like this were few and far between and it was back to Ed and Al setting out alone. I just don't like this theme at all.

In the manga I felt everyone was important and I personally cared about every character. I think Ed and Al and their journey was the heart of the story but it wasn't all about them and in the end it wasn't about them fighting alone but accepting everybody.

As for the blood is thicker than water, yeah that is certainly what I feel the first anime was pushing with the Ed & Al relationship but I don't agree with that.

Really I guess it just comes down to personal preference. I am sure we can find cliches in both series. What it comes down to is cliches and themes we personally prefer. You say you don't like the friendship theme well I do. Although I think the theme of the manga goes well beyond just friendship. It's more about not just relying on ourselves/our own pride, not being afraid to trust in others. So I think saying it is about the power of friendship is simplifying the theme.

And finally I can appreciate you liking a darker story but I personally do not find the first anime more realistic. *shrugs*
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Turdaewen
post Jan 18 2011, 03:21 PM
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I think it's very weird to discuss "realism" in a story that the genre is "Western fantasy". So, of course it would have its fantastic elements, both the first and the manga.

For me, it makes no sense into saying you like one or the other better because "it's more realistic". None of them is realistic. I mean, you have a boy with a bionic arm and another whose soul is trapped in a suit of armor as protagonists! And as far as it goes about "character relations", they both have their elements of true-likeness and elements of 'making up'. So I don't really see a point, there. And trying to prove that one has more than the other would be even more pointless, since we would have to take into account EVERY little scene and everyone's understanding of each scene and their relevance to the story to actually "calculate" something. Which would be impossible.


As far as I go, people usually say about realism when they are, in fact, talking about "philosophy" or philosophical themes, to be more accurate. And, again, it only depends on the angle you look for: FMA 1 is more of a existential branch of philosophy whereas the manga has a more classic/greek sort of philosophy. So neither has a "deeper" philosophy than the other, just another look at it.


For me, I like the FMA:B better simply because I prefer classic philosophy. Plato makes more sense to me than Kierkegaard. And also because I first got into FMA because of the "Alchemy" in the series, which is a lot more present (in the ideological sense of the word, of course) in the manga than it is in FMA 1. And I don't mean about the Equivalent Exchange or anything, but the principles and basis of Medieval Alchemy, which are the base to the whole concept of the manga.


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Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici
"By the power of truth I, while living, have conquered the universe"
Faust, Göethe
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Claudius
post Jan 18 2011, 08:28 PM
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Yes, Misty-Nala. That's what I meant.

QUOTE (xUltimate_Shieldx @ Jan 18 2011, 02:14 PM) *
For example, Winry never faced Roy about her parents in FMA-1, so that was never resolved. But in Brotherhood, in her dispair of confronting Scar as the killer, points a gun at him sobbing. Both her and Scar learn and change from this encounter and resolve problems within themselves. After seeing the vengeance in Winry's eyes, Scar begins to look at his own vengeance for killing State Alchemists.
I thought what Anime1 did was enough. Roy told his story about how her parents changed his life into trying to be a better man. Winry understood and accepted. A simple apology would not be sufficient for such a horrible crime. Making amends needed more work, and Roy showed that to Winry. Besides, Winry had to think of the bigger picture. Roy was the only protection the brothers had right now. It would be very selfish and stupid to jeopardize that situation by calling Roy out on it.

QUOTE
Roy is upset over Hughes in FMA-1, of course, but nothing ever comes from it.
Oh god no...
This is, what, the fourth...fifth time I've come to a situation like this?

Breathe deeply...

Okay. Let's begin with Anime1 episode 25. Hughes has a meeting with Bradley, discussing the corruption in the military. Bradley reassures Hughes that they will "extract the bad part out." His secretary, who has written nothing, repeats that line. The translation: the bad part is Hughes. Kill him.

In short, Bradley ordered Hughes' death. He is Henry VIII to Hughes' Anne Boleyn. Michael to Hughes' Fredo. Bradley did not personally pull the trigger, but his guilt is unquestionable. As far as Anime1 is concerned, Hughes would not have been murdered if Anime1Bradley had not ordered it.

And Roy knows this. When he and Edward meet again in Episode 48, they have this conversation.

Edward: "You realize there'll be no justification in the eyes of the public if you go against the Fuhrer. Even if you pull this off, you'll never be allowed to succeed him, with your reputation. The masses won't hear of it."
Roy: "That may be, but even so, I can't let him get away with what he's done."
Ed: "So you're doing all this to avenge Hughes?"
Roy: "You got it. He must've known what was going on in the military, and that's why he was killed."

Ed: "And for that you're willing to throw everything you've worked for your entire career."
Roy: "Without a second thought." (Japanese sub: "It's not that I want to.")

I am shocked at how people ignore this conversation. It says plainly that Roy wants revenge, and Bradley is his target. Roy might know that someone else did it, but he doesn't care about the fall guy. He holds Bradley responsible.
Roy's sad look, and the sub line "It's not that I want to," adds dimension to his character. It implies that he's for revenge, but not 100%. He knows that what he's doing is wrong (If it was just about ending tyranny, that line would not be said). That this revenge will be a horrible end to all those years of progress after the war (as well as breaking his promise to Hughes to be the great man). And yet he has no choice. Another war is coming, and stopping Bradley is the only solution. But he knows that reason is an excuse for vengeance. Roy knows this will not end well...
Y'know, in most revenge stories, the avenger is 'Grr Grr, Kill Kill, ask questions later.' Anime1Roy appears to be asking the questions before the act. A conscientious avenger is a rare characterization for this type of story.

QUOTE
As for Ed... he just was always the same in FMA-1. Always angry about something, always regretting something. In Brotherhood, his maturity growth is very apparent. One example would be he never completely comes to terms with Hoenheim in FMA-1, but in Brotherhood he resolves all of his hate with him.
Um, he's living with Hohenheim, smiles at him before leaving. When he talks about his father, he doesn't look PO'd at all (unlike earlier times). And there is his shock at his father's death. Clearly Edward got over it.
I think his relationship with Anime1Envy also points to his progress. I feel Envy is Edward's dark side. They both have tempers, hate their fathers, love their mothers, etc. As Edward gets blood on his hands, the threat of becoming like Envy becomes very apparent. But in the end, Edward could not do the one thing Envy could do: kill his own brother. The visuals to their now different paths are interesting: Envy- still having his father-issues- turns into the serpent/dragon (devil), while Edward- now free of such anger- goes Christ-like.
By CoS, Edward is sadder, but wiser. At the end of the movie, he finally accepts his part in the world, and looked forward to the future.
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xUltimate_Shield...
post Jan 18 2011, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE
I thought what Anime1 did was enough. Roy told his story about how her parents changed his life into trying to be a better man. Winry understood and accepted. A simple apology would not be sufficient for such a horrible crime. Making amends needed more work, and Roy showed that to Winry. Besides, Winry had to think of the bigger picture. Roy was the only protection the brothers had right now. It would be very selfish and stupid to jeopardize that situation by calling Roy out on it.


In all honestly, the fact that he was so depressed over Winry's parents death is another thing that's not too consistent. He's killed hundreds of people, and you might yell at me saying "Well that's reason enough to angst!" but I feel like it's never too explained what happened in the war in general. In the manga, the war is explained in great deal through many people's perspectives and explains why people feel the way they do more clearly than in the anime. Roy has a scene where he explains to Hughes why he needs to be at the top and why he is able to move forward from all of the terrible things that had happened in the war instead of grieving over everything. And if you think of it logically, Roy is a hard-working determined colonel. You don't become a colonel by sitting in your office in the middle of the night drinking.


QUOTE
Roy is upset over Hughes in FMA-1, of course, but nothing ever comes from it.]Oh god no...
This is, what, the fourth...fifth time I've come to a situation like this?

Breathe deeply...

Okay. Let's begin with Anime1 episode 25. Hughes has a meeting with Bradley, discussing the corruption in the military. Bradley reassures Hughes that they will "extract the bad part out." His secretary, who has written nothing, repeats that line. The translation: the bad part is Hughes. Kill him.

In short, Bradley ordered Hughes' death. He is Henry VIII to Hughes' Anne Boleyn. Michael to Hughes' Fredo. Bradley did not personally pull the trigger, but his guilt is unquestionable. As far as Anime1 is concerned, Hughes would not have been murdered if Anime1Bradley had not ordered it.

And Roy knows this. When he and Edward meet again in Episode 48, they have this conversation.

Edward: "You realize there'll be no justification in the eyes of the public if you go against the Fuhrer. Even if you pull this off, you'll never be allowed to succeed him, with your reputation. The masses won't hear of it."
Roy: "That may be, but even so, I can't let him get away with what he's done."
Ed: "So you're doing all this to avenge Hughes?"
Roy: "You got it. He must've known what was going on in the military, and that's why he was killed."

Ed: "And for that you're willing to throw everything you've worked for your entire career."
Roy: "Without a second thought." (Japanese sub: "It's not that I want to.")

I am shocked at how people ignore this conversation. It says plainly that Roy wants revenge, and Bradley is his target. Roy might know that someone else did it, but he doesn't care about the fall guy. He holds Bradley responsible.
Roy's sad look, and the sub line "It's not that I want to," adds dimension to his character. It implies that he's for revenge, but not 100%. He knows that what he's doing is wrong (If it was just about ending tyranny, that line would not be said). That this revenge will be a horrible end to all those years of progress after the war (as well as breaking his promise to Hughes to be the great man). And yet he has no choice. Another war is coming, and stopping Bradley is the only solution. But he knows that reason is an excuse for vengeance. Roy knows this will not end well...
Y'know, in most revenge stories, the avenger is 'Grr Grr, Kill Kill, ask questions later.' Anime1Roy appears to be asking the questions before the act. A conscientious avenger is a rare characterization for this type of story.


If that's the case, then I feel like Roy's whole character does a 180, which is pretty inconsistent as far as the first anime goes. He's supposed to get to the top with a goal set in mind. He's now willing to give up that goal on his own will just like that. In the manga, no matter what, Roy knew he had this goal to reach, and that nothing would pull him back. Even Hughes death wasn't enough for that. Roy's revenge made more sense in the manga. In the first anime, he was just depressed and didn't do anything for a while. In the manga at least he was occupied and didn't let his grief slow him down, even though he was still on the look out for Hughes's killer. The scene in the manga when he confronts Envy is a very powerful and kind of terrifying scene. In the anime I didn't feel the same power when he faced King Bradley. I found it more random than anything that all of the sudden after his doing nothing he decided to go kill the Furer and probably f*ck himself over. In all honestly, when watching the first anime it was hard for me to get into Roy's story. I felt as though he wasn't consistent from beginning to end, but at least in the manga he was set in stone perfectly the whole way through with more back story and development.


QUOTE
I think his relationship with Anime1Envy also points to his progress. I feel Envy is Edward's dark side. They both have tempers, hate their fathers, love their mothers, etc. As Edward gets blood on his hands, the threat of becoming like Envy becomes very apparent. But in the end, Edward could not do the one thing Envy could do: kill his own brother. The visuals to their now different paths are interesting: Envy- still having his father-issues- turns into the serpent/dragon (devil), while Edward- now free of such anger- goes Christ-like.
By CoS, Edward is sadder, but wiser. At the end of the movie, he finally accepts his part in the world, and looked forward to the future.


I feel like Envy's deal was brought up pretty randomly. All of the sudden he's Ed's half brother. Alright. I never thought it was a bad idea or anything, but when I watched the anime for the first time without even reading the manga yet I didn't really understand what it had to do with. Freak out at me all you want, but Envy also wasn't consistant. Again, in the manga, he has a set purpose and a set personality. He doesn't randomly decide to be hateful all of the sudden.

The reason the first anime has these inconsistencies is because it first followed the manga, but once it had caught up it had to change its path, thus is changed the plot and the characters. So some things didn't stay consistent.


--------------------

Roy x Riza ~ Ling x Lan Fan ~ Ed x Winry ~ Havoc x Rebecca
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Claudius
post Jan 19 2011, 10:13 AM
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I thought the Anime1 gave enough clues: the flashback where Roy uses his PS ring to destroy a town (and his shock), Roy's duel with Ed causing him to remember facing an Ishvalan soldier hardly Ed's age, Roy's expression over killing the Rockbells.
Roy's murder is portrayed as the final straw in his accepting the war. Before he was able (or trying to) accept the killings (it's a war after all). But it's one thing if you are ordered to kill people who are trying to kill you. Quite another if it's two innocent doctors, your own countrymen. Roy's reluctance is further shown by his choice of weapon: he shoots the two instead of burning them like any other enemy. He couldn't accept the above-repproachness of the military after that.

Roy goes 180? of course. Inconsistent? No.
Grief does nasty things to a person. Roy's 180 is no different from the other characters of other fictions and media. Batman, Spider-Man, Legion of Super-Heroes' Cosmic Boy and Element Lad, Buffy's Willow, Avatar the Last Airbender's Kitara are all moral, idealistic persons who let grief cause them to drop said ideals for revenge. Roy is no different.
Before the revenge, the Roys handled the situation differently. MangaRoy was on the lookout for Hughes' killer, which showed he was letting his grief bother him. Anime1Roy tried to be objective about Hughes' death. Seeing it as a roadblock to his ambitions (and his promise) he tried to let it go. And being transferred to Central is something I wouldn't call 'doing nothing.' As for showing depression, Schieszka was freaked out about Roy's apparent lack of it. In both situations, both Roys didn't undergo any mourning periods. So it's possible to assume that they were unhealthily repressing their grief. All it needed was a poke to explode it...
In Anime1Roy's case, that came when Roy confronted Bradley about Juliet Douglas' possible role in Hughes death. Bradley's stance proved his complicity. Imagine your best friend's murderer was this official you often meet? It would be like a scab was ripped open. All that grief came back, and Roy needed a target to unleash it: Bradley.
Of course, if given time, Roy could have gotten over it. But time was not on his side. Another senseless war was coming, and judging by Roy's war memories, I doubt he wanted to see another Ishbal now that he knew the truth. He had his excuse for vengeance.

And Anime1Envy's origin goes way back. In their first confrontation in Anime1, Envy whups Edward, mentioning that he can never forgive him for having Hohenheim's blood.

I'm afraid we might be getting no where. We see things differently. What you see as inconsistent and incomplete, I see as enough and suffiicient. Yes, I admit Anime1 has plot-holes, but I EXcept the Winry-Roy situation and Roy-Bradley's situation away from that criticism, IMO.
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KimbleeWorshippe...
post Jan 19 2011, 02:54 PM
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I'm gonna go ahead and jump in on this...

QUOTE
What you see as inconsistent and incomplete, I see as enough and suffiicient. Yes, I admit Anime1 has plot-holes, but I EXcept the Winry-Roy situation and Roy-Bradley's situation away from that criticism, IMO.


To start, I just have to say that I had to read that last sentence about ten times before I realized you meant "ACCEPT" rather than "EXcept" ... then it started to make some sense. But I digress...

I don't know why anyone would watch an anime (or really anything, for that matter) and just accept plot-holes and inconsistencies. Call me a perfectionist, but I look for structure and, well... things that just make sense in whatever I'm watching. I feel like the manga is pretty much perfect in that aspect. Hiromu Arakawa did a fantastic job at making sure everything was connected to everything, that all actions had meaning, and that all the characters had three-dimensional, human attributes to them. Of course, this would mean that I feel the same way about Brotherhood as well, considering it's a fairly direct adaptation from the manga. Now, if I were to sit down and watch the first anime and see these inconsistencies, I'd most certainly sit there and think, "So... what the hell was that all about...?" I don't want to watch something and just sit in wonder, trying to figure out how (and if) things made sense. I want to know.

This may sound harsh, but I think that just the very existence of plot-holes and inconsistencies proves that the makers of the first anime really didn't know what they were doing in some parts. It makes it seem slapped together and unorganized; like a a big, confusing mess. I don't think that makes it "sufficient." Instead, I think it makes it lesser-quality.


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KingLes98
post Jan 19 2011, 04:17 PM
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To further justify my opinion:
FMA-1 had a ton of memorable moments and life lessons that get across wonderfully due to it's colorful art and music that supports what is going on. For instance like Edwards speech on racism in episode 36 or the conclusion to Lust's back story in episode 35 or even the little heart warming moments like when Gracia's baby was born in episode 6. I don't mind if things don't exactly make sense because these moments have a lot of emotion and are sometimes even thought provoking. To me that's what matters in an anime, memorable scenes and emotions.
Brotherhood on the other hand failed to make me attached to the world that Ed and Al were living in, it lacks emotion. I think they sacrificed heart for more fight scenes. I was waiting for the episode where Edward says "His Alchemy level is OVER 9000!!!!!" Brotherhood is an action anime (it has a lot of amazing action scenes at that) so I see why people like it but fans of Brotherhood insist that it's much deeper than an action show so... I don't see where they got that from
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Claudius
post Jan 19 2011, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE (KimbleeWorshipper @ Jan 19 2011, 02:54 PM) *
To start, I just have to say that I had to read that last sentence about ten times before I realized you meant "ACCEPT" rather than "EXcept" ... then it started to make some sense. But I digress...
I DID mean Except, hence the capitalization of the word so no one would mistake it for a spelling error. I admit anime1 is not perfect, but I saw no flaws in the situations I mentioned. My use of 'sufficient' is that the point was made perfectly. I found Roy's situation with Winry fine enough (I don't see why a 'I'm sorry Winry' apology should be needed), and I do not see a problem in making him her parents' murderer. And I have no problem that Roy would pull a 180 from idealist to avenger.

QUOTE
I don't know why anyone would watch an anime (or really anything, for that matter) and just accept plot-holes and inconsistencies. Call me a perfectionist, but I look for structure and, well... things that just make sense in whatever I'm watching.
I accept that you are a perfectionist, but not everyone is a perfectionist. There are people who love series, movies, stories, and the like despite any possible flaw or mistake. Heck, many people who point out said nitpicks are actually fans of the subject. Yes, Anime1 has its problems, but I don't see it as one big mess as a perfectionist like you sees it. I'm sure the manga and Brotherhood has its own situations that people disagree about, but that in no way affects the love of its fans (who might be the very same people!).
As Tombow would say, no one has a wrong view. So despite your perfectionism, please accept our tastes you might see as less than perfect.
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