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FMA-1 Vs. FMA:Brotherhood Discussion: Comaparing FMA-1 anime series vs FMA:Brotherhood, How each/both series measures up in your opinion? (Spoiler Warning!
FMA-1 Vs. FMA:Brotherhood Discussion: Comaparing FMA-1 anime series vs FMA:Brotherhood
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Icy12
post Oct 3 2010, 12:32 PM
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QUOTE (Misty- Nala @ Oct 3 2010, 04:53 AM) *
In my opinion, Brotherhood's greatest weakness is that it is retelling the manga; it's boring.


With all due respect, but aren't there TONS of other anime series based on manga which basically retell the manga plot? I understand you don't like Brotherhood, but you are also partially criticizing it for doing what many other series are doing as well.
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His Name is Unkn...
post Oct 3 2010, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE (Icy12 @ Oct 3 2010, 03:32 PM) *
With all due respect, but aren't there TONS of other anime series based on manga which basically retell the manga plot? I understand you don't like Brotherhood, but you are also partially criticizing it for doing what many other series are doing as well.


I think part of what Misty-Nala was trying to express with that post (and please Misty, correct me if I'm wrong) was a critique of the perceived lack of creativity in adapting the manga material. It's not so much that Brotherhood's animation of the manga story panels is intrinsically wrong or inferior, but more that the drastic cut-and-paste nature of certain scenes feels cheap.

A perfect example of what Misty is referring to with her original comment are the gratuitous split scene sequences in episode three, "The City of Heresy". Many of these shots were culled directly from the manga, but their adaptation to the small screen was jarring and haphazard, largely because the director and animation staff did not respect the principle that what works on a manga page does not always translate to cinema. There are better, more subtle ways to illustrate the clashing of science and faith besides literally placing characters with opposing worldviews in a split screen face off. Such directing makes the episode feel cheap, stereotypical, and shallow, thus providing the basis for criticism by those viewers looking for a more engaging cinematic experience.

Having clarified the topic under consideration, I hope you'll indulge me as I suggest one further criticism of the second anime:

The aspect of manga adaptation wherein Brotherhood seems to the struggle the most is in its attempted fusion of gaiden and canon materials into a cohesive narrative.

My initial post noted the episodic nature of FMA2 - part of this stems from narrative flaws in the early portions of the manga source material, but much of the blame falls on the stereotypically shonen-esque directorial style of Brotherhood. The driving force behind the tale is plot rather than character based, a technique which stands in sharp contrast to the character-centric FMA1, where an all encompassing narrative gradually took shape over the course of a dozen or so episodes (for a specific example of what I am referencing, consider the Izumi/Wrath arc, which seemlessly integrated the brother's past with the sin of human transmutation, ultimately leading to thematic resolution in the reconciliation of master and pupil while also establishing the sinister truth behind the origin of a homunculus and setting up the following Greed arc).

This more mature directing style is also evident in humorous episodes like 13 and 37; even while adapting gaiden side-stories, anime one never lost track of the main plot. Whether it be the subtle, yet crucial exchange of information during Havoc's side-rending comedy routine at the Armstrong mansion, or the depth of character revealed behind Mustang's ambitions in episode 13, FMA1 had an eye for characters, plot, and emotion whereas FMA2 seemed more concerned with budgetary restraints, rushed narrative, and shoe-horning in as many short jokes as possible. The tendency toward plot progression is so severe that crucial gaiden content (such as the wonderfully done Yet Another Man's Battlefield), which would have greatly benefited the main narrative, are left for OVA material. FMA1 was far more creative (and thus, less 'boring') in its incorporation of side stories like Dog of the Military and even novel material such as the Tringham brothers episode from The Land of Sand. By comparison, Brotherhood's decision to relegate Blind Alchemist, Tales of the Master, and Simple People to separate mini episodes creates a disjointed structure and reduces the emotional impact these moments could have elicited had they been incorporated more creatively.
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Misty- Nala
post Oct 4 2010, 10:38 AM
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His name is Unknown: Arigatou, Thank you, Merci, Tack så mycket! You understood my point better than even I did! I agree with everything you said; seems like you read my mind, *spooky* ohmy.gif . I agree that Anime 1 relied on its characters and the plot was ongoing, it was never forgotten. I have also seen two of the Brotherhood Gaidens animated ( Simple People and Yet Another Man's Batllefield ( but in a language I can't understand)) and immediately saw the difference in story telling and characterization. The series and the OVAs are like day and night. I wonder if they even had the same director and writers. I enjoyed the OVAs very much and would have liked the series to be more like them.

It feels like in FMA1, as you mentioned, the characters keep the plot going; they are the plot. In Brotherhood, the plot seems to be a separate element which just happens to pass by our characters.
I don't know, one day I was thinking for possible reasons how two animes that are based on THE SAME MANGA could be so different in style and narration. The only conclusion I could come to was this:
Anime1 Director: Let's make a story based on popular manga and make it a psychological, engaging maturing story!
Brotherhood Director: Let's make a story based on popular, famous and profitable manga and make even more profit!

I know that is mean but these are my feelings sad.gif I mean, Brotherhood had a lot of potential but it just wasn't used properly.


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Maromi
post Oct 4 2010, 07:10 PM
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Me and the 1st Anime are on a love-hate relationship.

I mean, it's good as it's own thing, but I never understood why:

1) They made it so early
2) When they caught up to the Manga, they didn't put the Anime on hiatus.

And, after awhile, things in the 1st Anime just stopped making sense, and it was hard for me to follow. I really, just like Brotherhood more, but I like the Manga the best. I'm also one of the very few people who thinks that the animation in Brotherhood is better than the 1st.

Also why did Scar have to die? D': I mean, it was bittersweet, but SCAAAAAAARRRR!


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rosieechan
post Oct 19 2010, 06:47 PM
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I prefer the manga/Brotherhood.
Not saying that they're the same thing. Nothing can compare to the manga. But Brotherhood is close as it can get to it, so I think it's okay.

Meh, the first anime was good and all, but the ending made no sense to me at all. I prefer stories with a good, structured plot, developed characters, and a solid conclusion rather than the actual scene set up (I mean, if it was really bad, then I could understand, but it's fairly decent considering it was doing its best to stay consistent with the manga). That's just how I view it, of course.

I'm not that really picky on how choppy it was during the first what? 15 episodes? I actually liked it that way, it kept it moving at a quicker pace. Of course, if I was new to FMA, then I would not have liked it so much. But then after the characters from Xing are introduced, the plot slows its pace and it's downright suspenseful and addictive. Every episode is important, there are almost no fillers, and you get excited when they discover something about the conspiracy and it's just...so thrilling. And the dramatic irony is so well done! Also, I love the humor. It relieves the tension at the perfect moment (mostly in the manga) and acutally makes me laugh out loud. Never have any anime/manga actually made me giggle laugh for like five minutes straight.

The manga is just perfect, though. Nothing can beat the manga.
See it like this: take all the good qualities from both animes and mix it together, and that's where you end up with the manga.

QUOTE
There were plot twists and developments in the manga/brotherhood storyline that I was still ruminating on a day or two after I read it. That -never- happened to me for the first series, except maybe ep 25.


Exactly. It's so exciting and you just can't wait to read/watch more of it!

OH! And the backstory. Hohenheim's backstory. That part totally converted me into a full-time manga/Brotherhood fan. I squealed and almost fell off my seat. IT ALL MADE SENSE.
(plus, young!Hoho was hot. ;D)


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Misty- Nala
post Oct 21 2010, 02:59 AM
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QUOTE (Icy12 @ Oct 3 2010, 10:32 PM) *
QUOTE (Misty- Nala @ Oct 3 2010, 04:53 AM) *
In my opinion, Brotherhood's greatest weakness is that it is retelling the manga; it's boring.


With all due respect, but aren't there TONS of other anime series based on manga which basically retell the manga plot? I understand you don't like Brotherhood, but you are also partially criticizing it for doing what many other series are doing as well.


You didn't quite get my point there.
Now, I confess I'm not an anime/manga freak. I've only read a handful of manga and seen a couple of shows but I do know that many animes are based on manga. Some are more creative and some are less. Brotherhood is more on the "follow the original page by page category.

I don't have many instances in mind but this is the best: Sailor Moon. Everyone knows it, an anime based on manga. The main plot is the same: five soldiers fighting for the peace in the galazy. I haven't read all of manga but by what I know, Sailor Moon follows the basic plot well. The setting is the same but the show manages to bring the original content into a whole new light. Many have complained about these fillers that aren't mentioned in the manga, but that is the way I like an adaptation show to be. There is to be the main plot but, if you have the chance, it is good to add in some new depth into the story. Focus on certain characters and their relationships etc.

Brotherhood is a faitful adaptation of the manga and it's the show's weakness because it is too faithful. All the scenes, images, character's expressions, they have all been seen in the manga. I have no idea what the animatiors did to catch it. I assume they had the manga on their laps and drew the panel exactly how it is. As His name is Unknown said, the tricks that work in manga don't work in an anime. I personally am not fan of the exaggerated manga humor. I know it is an important element to the mood and everything but to me, it makes the show seem childlish and diminishes the atmosphere.

Basically, I would have prefered the writers and animators to be freer to make things in their own way. Just because a show is based on manga, doesn't mean you have to retell the story panel by panel, scene by scene. Anime 1 took the first main plots (Nina etc), took the needed freedom and was able to create a believable and emotional story without being a slave. That is what I mostly adore in the first show.

Also, what makes the most curious is that the only additionality, the element the whole show would have needed, was first introduced in the last episode (if the gate scene is not taken into account). I can't even begin to describe how happy I was to see more of the Mustang team. And different pictures in the end were also a nice touch. That's the kind of creativity I would have wanted to see. I'm sure Arakawa wouldn't have minded.

Plus, the fact the one scene from the manga that I (and most of other fans) loved didn't make it into Brotherhood makes me really bewildered. They put in every single short joke but not Barry and Mustang talking in phone?

Summa summarum, if someone asks me how to see Alchemist, manga, anime 1 or Brotherhood, I would say "read manga and watch anime 1, Brotherhood will not give you anything new."



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rosieechan
post Oct 25 2010, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE (Misty- Nala @ Oct 21 2010, 05:59 AM) *
....

Summa summarum, if someone asks me how to see Alchemist, manga, anime 1 or Brotherhood, I would say "read manga and watch anime 1, Brotherhood will not give you anything new."


I completely understand your point.
But as for me, I prefer Brotherhood still because I like seeing the characters animated (especially since half of my favorite characters don't even show up in the first anime or have lack of character development). I thought Brotherhood did a wonderful job. happy.gif The scenes/music was a nice touch and it was amazing to see it actually come to life.
About the humor, some may find it annoying, but I liked how it relieved the tension. I prefer humor to angst anyway. But of course, the humor was done much better in the manga.
And personally, I'd rather have an anime that follows the manga thoroughly than an anime that leaves gaping holes in the end. If FMA-1 actually had a decent ending with everything adding up or awesome side characters getting their development, I'm sure I would have truly enjoyed it, even equally to the manga. But that's just me, of course. smile.gif

(I liked how you referenced Sailor Moon. Sailor Moon anime was epic, but it'll never beat the amazingness of the manga IMO. biggrin.gif)
Reason for edit: Reduced the amount quoted from whole post to summary.


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QueenTiria
post Oct 31 2010, 03:22 AM
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Everyone says that Brotherhood is lacking because it's unoriginal. But what makes a good anime?

In my opinion, a good anime, a good story in fact, has a cohesive and brilliant plot that drives along at an unrelenting pace, that can evoke powerful emotions and explore the human psyche as well as make you laugh until you have stitches.

The story that Arakawa-sensei brought to life has all those things, and in turn, so does the anime.

In the end, no matter who came up with the story, I will only enjoy the anime itself if the story's good.
Basically, if the story's good, who cares about the original source?


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Ama-ri
post Nov 1 2010, 03:16 PM
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I wonder if some people forgot the fact, that anime and manga are completely different media.
You're saying the problem with FMA:B is, that it's too faithful to the manga - so what?

Anime has another audience than manga. There have always been the "readers" and the "watchers". Actually, the people who do both are rarer. You could compare this to normal movies and books. Did everyone who watched a movie also read the book? No, not really. Does this make movies based on books unoriginal? I think not.

Manga adaptions are directed to those who don't want to read the manga. Or maybe don't know it. Or simply are too lazy to do it. I know a whole lot of those people. If they have a choice between reading it or watching the exact same stuff, they'll watch it.

Brotherhood did exactly what a good adaption should do: Use its material well, be faithful to it, leave unimportant stuff out or cut it (even though there wasn't that much and ymmv on those choices), keep the atmosphere, keep the suspense. And don't put useless additional stuff in.

The result beats the first anime by far.

Does this make the first anime bad? I wouldn't say so. I know, I'm bashing the first anime a lot. But mostly because some people say its soooo much better than Brotherhood, which is apparently bad in their opinion. (most of those are those kiddies who say "I saw FMA1 first/It was my first anime so it's the best thing everasdfghjk" etc. Really, guys, being the first anime you saw doesn't make it good.) I can't stand it. Because it isn't that way. Yes, you could say you like the idea of FMA1 more, but in execution and continuity (and production values) Brotherhood is better. And not only because it's newer.

So the other side: The storyline. It depends on your preferences. FMA1 had the problem that it was done before the manga ended, hell, even before the manga got into its real storyline. So the creators of the anime had a lot space for interpretation. They had to create a whole new story based around the same people and the same country. As far as I know Arakawa asked to do a different ending/storyline than in the manga so they couldn't use any of her ideas any further.

That's actually its real problem. Maybe they thought of the one or other same thing and couldn't use it to not spoil anything. The result of this is a story full of plotholes, building up suspense, making you want to know why they are there because you think they're intended and leaves you with an half-assed ending which doesn't solve anything.
Yes, I'm not a fan of Anime 1, however I don't think it's actually BAD. But it's not good either.

Oh and yes, I LOVE Brotherhood. Even though I read the manga. And I wasn't bored any second.


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Fairy of Darknes...
post Nov 1 2010, 06:27 PM
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To be honest, I really like both animes. The manga is what got me to become an FMA fan, but due to certain reasons, I had to watch the animes. I watched the first anime before Brotherhood for some reason, and I thought that it was really good, and I don't even care about what everyone else says; I mean, sure that the first anime had a bunch of plot holes and stuff, but I actually don't really care(the only thing that bothered me was the movie). Brotherhood was also good, and even I have to admit that it was better than the first anime, but I enjoy both of them and they were both good in their own way. But this is just my opinion.


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Luminarium
post Nov 2 2010, 08:56 AM
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~ Just started watching FMA:B... ~

So I've watched the 2003 anime quite some time ago, and to my amazement, I found Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood recently. Being from Australia, we don't get any -good- anime on TV (well, not FMA anyway), so I didn't realize until I went onto eBay to find the DvD's of FMA (2003) to buy them.

I re-watched ALL the Fullmetal Alchemists episodes (I like the DUB version), and recently started to watch the Brotherhood version.

I'm sort of.. disappointed? I don't know what it is, but it feels rushed to me. I've only watched up to episode 6 so far, and I just feel that the context of the characters, the script, etc, is just not as good as the first anime.

The voice actors are the same, except for Al (big disappointment, I loved the old Al.. laugh.gif), but I ended up getting used to it. I just feel that something is off - maybe I had different expectations to it?

Does anyone else feel the same way, or might be able to explain to me what's going on? It's like FMA (2003) explained everything so much more in-depth then Brotherhood is..

And no, unfortunately I haven't read the Manga, so I can't compare, but I do understand Brotherhood is following the manga more thoroughly then FMA (2003) did..

I just hope the ending for Brotherhood is better then that of the 2003 version. Though, I do appreciate the movie they released, MUCH better ending for the series. happy.gif


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cherry-chan. :D
post Nov 2 2010, 09:22 AM
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Honestly, I haven't seen the 2003 series (though I do know a little about it XD), but having read the manga and finished Brotherhood, I'd have to say that it would be best if you go on watching. Episode 6... well, really, not much has happened (in comparison to the plot in its entirety). I think things will start picking up by... Episode 10? (Or 15.) Somewhere there.

I think they purposely "rushed" the content of the first few episodes assuming that the viewers of Brotherhood have at least seen the (first part of the) 2003 anime or read the manga, since these first few episodes are really more of an exposition to the whole story than anything.

But then again, as I said, I haven't seen the 2003 anime, so I have little say on that matter. XD (And I might be a bit biased, even. ^^; ) If you ask me though, I'd say you should continue watching Brotherhood! I think it's best that you watch everything first before making a conclusion [as to whether or not Brotherhood explains things as in-depth as the 2003 anime, or if the characters, script, etc are good or not]. happy.gif

I can't compare the endings, but I'll say that although I didn't get exactly what I wished for, I did like the ending of the manga/Brotherhood, and I was rather pleased. biggrin.gif
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Tombow
post Nov 2 2010, 09:29 AM
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^ @cherry-chan. biggrin.gif - I agree. I think FMA:Brotherhood gets much more interesting in the latter episodes. ^^

@Luminarium - Oh, you haven't read manga? That's awesome! Because then we can hear the opinion on FMA:Brotherhood anime that has not been influenced by reading FMA manga! biggrin.gif


We'd love to hear more of everyone's opinions on this topic! Please continue this discussion on FMA-1 vs FMA:Brotherhood thread. You can read others' opinions on this topic there also. ^^

This thread will be merged to FMA-1 vs FMA:Brotherhood thread later. smile.gif


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Luminarium
post Nov 2 2010, 10:08 AM
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@cherry-chan., I'll definitely continue watching it! There's some things in the Brotherhood episodes that definitely catch my attention (maybe it's the catchy opening song? happy.gif), but I guess the reason why I'm pursuing in watching it, is because I'm hoping for a better ending then the 2003 anime.

Fair enough, being an FMA fan, I would watch it anyway, but I'm just not sure what it is.. things like in episode 7, where a certain library gets burnt down, there's a whole scene missing from there where two characters meet for the first time, or when Ed and Al first meet Sheska, it sort of gets more into the characters then what Brotherhood does, and I think that's what's missing.

@Tombow, Oh, my second mistake in 1 day.. gosh I'm bad at this aren't I? sad.gif I'll continue the conversation in the other thread once this one is merged with it.
But yes, I haven't read the manga, unfortunately. Being in a remote area in Australia, we don't get much "anime" things here. There's a few DVD stores that have anime DVDs (like Kmart, Target, etc), but there isn't a manga store. So the only place for me to find them would be online, and I haven't had the money to buy them yet..

I'll let you know what I think about Brotherhood, definitely! I'm watching the dubbed version, so maybe that'll also influence my choice (though FMA (2003) I also watched as a dubbed series).


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Tombow
post Nov 2 2010, 10:45 AM
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^ @Luminarium - No problem! ^^ And, I understand that not every place is "manga-friendly." We have other members in the similar situation also, and I can emphasize. At least, I'm glad you are able to watch Brotherhood anime. ^^


I merged the thread. Everyone, please carry on with the discussions. smile.gif


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