HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
full metal alchemist
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The Complete Theory Of Alchemy, Its long and its spoils
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Guest_Chow_*
post Sep 30 2004, 04:16 PM
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Alchemy appear to be already well develope 400 years ago in FMA world, but the phliosphere's stone (and red stone) may be first develope/discover by Danta and Ed's dad.

If that is true than all previous homunculi are very different from the homunculi we seen today, they are only abomination, and never "upgrade" themselves for red stone are artificial and they dont exist yet. They are likely with little to no intelligent at all.

During the era of witch hunting in our world, it is possible same happen in FMA world, and all homunculi exist perior probably been destory by human when they lable them as monsters. Without the power of the red stone, they probably with little power as some wild animal, or even weaker.

Which sort of explain why no homunculi except the 7 of Dante's, as to other homunculis that appear in the 400 years which Danta didnt pick up, probably were killed by angry mob also? Besides, the 7 homunculi we seen now may not the the only 7 Danta ever pick up, there could be more Danta pick up earlier, but killed for reasons from unloyal (sort of like lust?) to too annoying ( sort of like warth?) or simply die in action (sort of like sloth?)....
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Guest_Chow_*
post Sep 30 2004, 05:16 PM
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A little more add on:

Warth's mark could be explain as inscribe by his mother before he died when he was still a baby.
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The Flame Alchem...
post Sep 30 2004, 05:35 PM
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lol i wish i could be able to argue a point but... i have none lol i can't think THAT much about it (not healthy) lol

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Guest_Guest_*
post Oct 1 2004, 05:43 PM
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I think theres more than 7 since when greed met sloth/lust/gluttony on teh island lust said something about gluttony being the "orginal" so i guess that ocne the homunculi die they bascially are replaced when dante finds/creates a new one
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Kodachrome
post Oct 1 2004, 06:31 PM
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QUOTE(Shrimpusmaximus @ Sep 29 2004, 04:55 PM)
The thing about homunculi is there is one big big fault in their execution.  I love the anime and however good a job the manga is doing I am convinced that thing is doing just as good or better.  However without father the mark of Ouroburos is a hole.  Wrath had the mark before he ate the red stone.   However the series is leaning toward the idea of the mark being the manifestation of the creatures sin.  A seal that degenerates them into their sin.  Until this is sorted out there can't be a complete theory on the homunculi.

The manga is doing a much better job than the anime when it comes to making sense.
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Shiroi
post Oct 1 2004, 07:11 PM
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I think too much. Just saw episode 50 today and came up with an analysis of my own. I like some of your points, and they overlap with things I thought about. Here's just my view on the whole gate thing. (It's long and spoilery ^^; )

Spoiler: (Click here to Display)


Again, I think too much. X_x; As for the homunculi, there couldn't have been many people who actually attempted human transmutation, but there had to be some in order to make it forbidden. I think all other homunculi were killed, and Dante was the first to come up with the red stone idea. I think she named the ones under her control, but they were born with the tatoo as a symbol of not being exactly human.

Sorry for the length of my post!
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Guest_Guest_*
post Oct 1 2004, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE(Shiroi @ Oct 1 2004, 07:11 PM)
In this case, both Al's body and soul should have been taken since the energy to create life had to come from somewhere, and the reason the transmutation failed was because Ed didn't allow Al's soul to be taken.  It would appear that of all people who attempted human transmutation, Al had the strongest will power, wanting to give up that much.  I think will power is tied in directly with the ability to access the gate.

there is fault:

the failure of the transmutation of their mom takes place before even Ed tranmute Al's soul to that armor.

the human transmutation didn't fail coz of Al's soul being fix to armor.

it already failed before then.
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Shrimpusmaximus
post Oct 1 2004, 10:32 PM
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I am currently refusing to view the manga until the Anime finishes. All comments about comparative continuity fall on deaf ears and I don't think that it is particularly productive anyway. No matter how concise or well planned the manga is they are no longer sharing a bed. I might as well point out how clever and tightly wound the plotting of Full metal Panic was as compared to alchemist because they share 50% of a title (which I would never do for any show with an improbability drive).

Shiroi, nice post alot of good ideas there the thought of death and the soul being separate doesn't fly in my head though. The soul itself is used to fuel transmutations. Like a bundle of fatwood it is burned to generate the energy needed to change the shape of the object in question. A twist on your theory would be that there is a mote of the soul that leaps from the fire preserving the essense, while drained of its substance. But this feels naive. Listening to envy speak on the Pstone makes me think that the people not their deaths are contained wholesale in the stone.

I think the gate is a one way trip from ours to their with rare exceptions. Our souls power their alchemy.

The Pstone definitely doesn't break equivalent trade.
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gugclo
post Oct 1 2004, 10:52 PM
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Wow someone was bored o.O
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Shrimpusmaximus
post Oct 2 2004, 12:03 AM
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who me, cause yes I was, but not with FMA.
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gugclo
post Oct 2 2004, 01:16 AM
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Im super bored so i decided to do some spell checking

Alchemy, it is the science of rearranging matter from one form to another, but because it is a science the laws of nature still apply. One cannot gain something without a sacrifice of equivalent value.

The opening statement accurately describes that aside the true nature of alchemy. There are several fundamental laws that must be obeyed. In addition to the laws there are rules that though they can be broken are for the most part written in stone. There are three or so basic laws.

The Law Of Energy
This law states that no matter what there must be balance and nothing ever happens without a price. Energy for Alchemy comes from human souls. Even the most basic transmutation burns the energy of a soul to achieve the effect.

The Law of the Gate
Within every human being is a link to the nether called the gate. The gate can swing two ways. First it can open into a person and the souls of the dead can flow through them providing energy for alchemy. Second the gate can open from the person to the nether, this occurs on death, upon the severing of the soul and the body, and in certain other circumstances. When the gate opens into the nether it takes something from the person.
Every human has a limit to how much energy he or she can draw through the gate. This determines the strength of the alchemist. In all circumstances this energy limit is less than that of one whole soul. If the energy limit is surpassed the gate swings first into the person granting them energy, beyond their limit and access to the minds of all who have ever died, then it swings back into the nether and balances out the energy. Depending on the circumstances a person may lose part of his body or may be pulled beyond the gate in entirety.

The Law of Control
Energy brought through the gate has no purpose until it is given one. Through an array the energy may be commanded to perform a task. The array acts as a pattern to focus the mind into certain pathways, and depending on the nature of the array in question it allows for the transmutation of one or many substances. However the actual control comes from the human mind. It controls the transmutation and a personís free will can be used to influence the outcome of the transmutation.
If one has been gifted with supernatural or gate granted knowledge doesnít need an array and can by creating a circle with their limbs transmute to their will with the circulated power.


Onto the rules, they are more guesswork and less certainty and also the characters of the show are less bound by them.

The Rule of Human Transmutation
Every human has a soul and thus attempts to transmute the human body as a whole require more energy than any one human has by the second law. Transmuting of pieces of the human body is within possibility depending on the transmuter.
As long as there is the same quantity of human life at the end of the reaction as there is at the beginning there is no problem. For this reason chimeras don't impinge, normally, on the rule.

The Rule of the Philosophers Stone
Human lives can be obtained from the world around as well as through the gate. Utilizing lives already in the world to power a transmutation doesn't cause the gate to open wider than a person can handle and thus removes the limits from a personís transmutation up to the quantity of power stored in the stone.
Until a critical mass of the stone is assembled the stone changing it from a stew of souls to an ordered matrix power drawn from the stone is chaotic and limited. Delicate operations like binding a soul to a living and soiled body are impossible. Creation of a human from nothing is similarly impossible.

The rule of Homunculus
A failed human transmutation that holds enough life to continue its existence is a homunculus. A mind and body bound together they have no soul. By drawing souls into themselves from an outside source they can slowly alter their bodies.
Homunculi once mature can alter themselves with whatever shadow of the soul their creator sacrificed. They however have no gate to open and thus need energy externally to fuel their actions.
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Shrimpusmaximus
post Oct 2 2004, 11:26 AM
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thank you
I'm touched
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Edward.Elric
post Oct 26 2004, 04:29 AM
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Ok, Ill let you people debate over this one, What Alchemy Truly Is.
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Gashole
post Oct 26 2004, 07:37 AM
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A pseudoscience in the Middle Ages of transmuting the more worthless metals into gold. It is said Philosopher's Stone is the main ingredient that can do that, but no one ever found it. (Hey, is this the same Harry Potter's Philosopher's Stone? biggrin.gif) Eventually it leads to chemistry, though some alchemists remain faithful to the original study.
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Shinigami
post Oct 26 2004, 05:10 PM
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Alchemy was just basic chemisty that everybody though was magic in the olden days because it couldn't be explained. Eg gunpowder or something simlar exploded they would be like WOW.


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