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Sadism For Fun And Profit
Nepharski
post Feb 25 2007, 12:56 AM
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On a curious whim and link from a friend, I looked up an article on Wikipedia about the Saw movie series. I felt sick to my stomach, horrified out of my mind. And that's just based off reading descriptions. I can only image how I'd react in a movie theater or walking in on someone watching it. Seriously, I find it disturbing. And yet they've already made three Saw movies. Three. And they're working on a sequel to Hostel. These films were popular and successful enough to merit expansions to the original. People are paying money to watch this. To see this.

Now obviously, people have different tastes in entertainment. No small surprise. And I always try to bare this in mind when hearing or seeing upcoming or existing films, books, video games, Anime, Manga, music, and so on and so forth. I might not personally care for such and such a genre, but apparantly someone else does, and profitably so because they've filled an entire section of shelves in the bookstore for it. Some one's expecting a lot of business from this, and they're probably getting it, whatever I think about it notwithstanding.

But this just bothers me. Animes like Higurashi, films like Hostel. What can people possibly see in this sort of thing? I'm well aware that there are always certain "Deviant" pleasures within the human population, and I have no difficulty imaging that there are some people who would find it highly entertaining to watch people mutilate their bodies and minds. What bothers me is that they exist in such force to pack movie theaters and warrant sequels. People are spending money to spend an evening with this, and just as assuredly someone is making money for providing them with it.

More just a rant than a debate on a philosophical, religous, or sociological issue, but what are your thoughts?


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Attention Manga Lust fans:
Lust is dead. Finished. Kaput. Joined the Choir Invisible. Roy Mustang incinerated her repeatedly until her Philosopher's Stone dried up and dissolved into nothingness ("Mu" for you Japanese cultural enthusiasts). And she will remain killed off, written out of the plot. Greed was reincarnated because Father saved his Philosopher's Stone and had a guinea pig on hand. Lust is gone. Stop trying to play God with the plot line and bring her back at every possibly junction.
In the event that Hiromu Arakawa can skillfully maneuver around this narrative plot hole, I will eat my words with a pinch of salt.
Nepharski - Our first, last, and hopeful not only line of defense against bad Homunculi theories.

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Amol
post Feb 25 2007, 03:07 AM
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Sadism exists everywhere , one of my chapters talks of it.
I dont understand what happiness people get out of hurting others !
Other than the fact if he is any guy i really hate , but sadism is just for sole pleasure and i'm totally against the fact that they are putting such things !
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Popogeejo
post Feb 25 2007, 09:32 AM
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Not all people go for the sadistic pleasures, most go either due to to hype or morbid curiosity. I'm sure others go to be scared or just because it's on.

As for sequels well welcome to modern cinema. Almost every new film has had sequels after LotR and Scary movie showed how profitable they could be.

These are just basic slasher films/shows that have gone just a little bit further than before. Welcome to progress. rolleyes.gif


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Nepharski
post Feb 25 2007, 05:18 PM
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"Progress." Now there's a funny name for it.


--------------------
Attention Manga Lust fans:
Lust is dead. Finished. Kaput. Joined the Choir Invisible. Roy Mustang incinerated her repeatedly until her Philosopher's Stone dried up and dissolved into nothingness ("Mu" for you Japanese cultural enthusiasts). And she will remain killed off, written out of the plot. Greed was reincarnated because Father saved his Philosopher's Stone and had a guinea pig on hand. Lust is gone. Stop trying to play God with the plot line and bring her back at every possibly junction.
In the event that Hiromu Arakawa can skillfully maneuver around this narrative plot hole, I will eat my words with a pinch of salt.
Nepharski - Our first, last, and hopeful not only line of defense against bad Homunculi theories.

My LiveJournal, because I'm a closet conformist
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Popogeejo
post Feb 25 2007, 05:27 PM
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Just remember, the Impressionist movement was met with disgust before it was recognised as art...


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Chiyo
post Feb 25 2007, 05:36 PM
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When people glady visit rotton.com and download executions in Iraq, the last thing anybody needs to worry about is a fictional film. Like Popo said a lot of people have a basic morbid curiosity. Making films like Saw is nothing to do with the world becoming more twisted...its just attempting to be more shocking than what's come before.


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Nepharski
post Feb 25 2007, 09:46 PM
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QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 25 2007, 04:27 PM) [snapback]509461[/snapback]
Just remember, the Impressionist movement was met with disgust before it was recognised as art...

Perhaps they are just drawn in my morbid curiousity, but I highly doubt televised mutilation will ever be considered "Art."


--------------------
Attention Manga Lust fans:
Lust is dead. Finished. Kaput. Joined the Choir Invisible. Roy Mustang incinerated her repeatedly until her Philosopher's Stone dried up and dissolved into nothingness ("Mu" for you Japanese cultural enthusiasts). And she will remain killed off, written out of the plot. Greed was reincarnated because Father saved his Philosopher's Stone and had a guinea pig on hand. Lust is gone. Stop trying to play God with the plot line and bring her back at every possibly junction.
In the event that Hiromu Arakawa can skillfully maneuver around this narrative plot hole, I will eat my words with a pinch of salt.
Nepharski - Our first, last, and hopeful not only line of defense against bad Homunculi theories.

My LiveJournal, because I'm a closet conformist
Go to the top of the page
 
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Carnal Malefacto...
post Feb 25 2007, 10:41 PM
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I refer you to the lyrics to Tool's "Vicarious"

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be over at gurochan.


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Toby-Chan
post Feb 25 2007, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE(Nepharski @ Feb 25 2007, 10:46 PM) [snapback]509575[/snapback]
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 25 2007, 04:27 PM) [snapback]509461[/snapback]
Just remember, the Impressionist movement was met with disgust before it was recognised as art...

Perhaps they are just drawn in my morbid curiousity, but I highly doubt televised mutilation will ever be considered "Art."


Oh? Isn't Passion of The Christ classifiable as 'Art'?


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Carnal Malefacto...
post Feb 25 2007, 11:30 PM
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Heh. Ironic, isn't it? The outcry over Deicide's original 'Once Upon the Cross' cover art by Christian groups was insane. Now those same groups appear to be embracing very similar imagery.



[there's an 'uncensored' version of that artwork, as well]


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Nepharski
post Feb 26 2007, 12:16 AM
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QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ Feb 25 2007, 10:26 PM) [snapback]509691[/snapback]
QUOTE(Nepharski @ Feb 25 2007, 10:46 PM) [snapback]509575[/snapback]
QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 25 2007, 04:27 PM) [snapback]509461[/snapback]
Just remember, the Impressionist movement was met with disgust before it was recognised as art...

Perhaps they are just drawn in my morbid curiousity, but I highly doubt televised mutilation will ever be considered "Art."


Oh? Isn't Passion of The Christ classifiable as 'Art'?

It certainly has artistic moments and purposeful intent. But as a whole, that's debatable. Regardless about how you feel about the film or its message, in the end it's mostly two hours of a man suffering horrible things. Artistic, possibly. "Art," probably not. Would have been far more preferable for the movie to be about the last week, not the last 24 hours.

In any case, a film about a man suffering for his teachings and beliefs (and for some out there in the audience, everyone in humanity) probably has a better shot at art than equally grotesque mutilation at the whim of a madman in some thriller. Title of the thread is "for fun and profit," not "for deeper significance."

Personally, I think art should be enjoyable. I watched the Passion, and I can honestly say that aside from some specific scenes, once is enough. If I thought something was, art, I'd be ready and willing to watch it multiple times.

As for the cover of Once Upon a Cross, well, it's certainly provoking, but only as much as you read into it. And the lyrics for Vicarous are making me return to the drawing board to think about this.


--------------------
Attention Manga Lust fans:
Lust is dead. Finished. Kaput. Joined the Choir Invisible. Roy Mustang incinerated her repeatedly until her Philosopher's Stone dried up and dissolved into nothingness ("Mu" for you Japanese cultural enthusiasts). And she will remain killed off, written out of the plot. Greed was reincarnated because Father saved his Philosopher's Stone and had a guinea pig on hand. Lust is gone. Stop trying to play God with the plot line and bring her back at every possibly junction.
In the event that Hiromu Arakawa can skillfully maneuver around this narrative plot hole, I will eat my words with a pinch of salt.
Nepharski - Our first, last, and hopeful not only line of defense against bad Homunculi theories.

My LiveJournal, because I'm a closet conformist
Go to the top of the page
 
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Toby-Chan
post Feb 26 2007, 08:53 PM
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I highly doubt most slasher films or the fans thereof are motivated by honest sadism. For the most part, they are made with a mind to make money off of people who simply want to be scared for fun. There is a thrill of adrenaline associated with fear- with a rollercoaster, it's a physical stimulus involved in telling your body that it's in danger and in the case of movies, it's visual and mental stimuli that are telling your brain and body you are in danger even when you are not. Feeling that fear in earnest is never pleasant; nobody (or, at least, nobody sane) comes out of a hostage situation or a train wreck thinking about how awesome it felt. But if you have the fake fear and you know it's a fake fear and are only entertaining a small part of your imagination to fool yourself recreationally, then things like hang gliding and scary stories can be enjoyed for the little spike of chemical rush.

People watch horror movies to be scared, whether it is by realistic blood gore and a horrifyingly believable villain such as the afformentioned torture movies, or with a PG-13 level ghost story such as The Ring or The Grudge, where the really scary part is being left to imagine the horrible ways people died and wondering in the back of your mind if these sort of things really could happen if vengeful ghosts existed.

I myself am a squeamish person, and I have an aversion to horror movies out of that squeamishness and out of disinterest. I also tend to get sick if I even read about some of the details in such things. I felt sick all day after someone merely described a scene from a mafia-centered manga.

But I can also see the interest in certain horror films that present a very deeply twisted moral crisis or some theme that digs out the darkest parts of human nature or presents an antagonist that illustrates the dark side of punishment for wrongdoings, such as se7en or Saw. Dante Alighieri hilighted in vivid detail the horrors that awaited sinners in the levels of hell, and while even most devout religious people today pass off such a cruel depiction of punishment for sin, the fear of such consequences still remain in our psyche, whether we read the works of Alighieri or not. A film that confronts these fears, those fears that most people don't wish to confront, and does so successfully, even gruesomely if that must be the case to get the point across, is most definitely an artistic success, in my opinion.

Whether or not the film is brutal and graphic has no bearing over whether it is artistic. If it has deep thought behind it; a sort of base built to stimulate questions, tear up preconcieved notions of morals we hold as given, stir emotions that aren't just cheap thrills of chemical rush- then it is art.


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Nepharski
post Feb 26 2007, 11:23 PM
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I see.

I suppose I can see where you're coming from, and I'll admit I enjoy a good scare, though I prefer the psychological over the graphic (big Naoki Urasawa fan here). And of course, we all have our primal drives. People fill the theaters just as readily to watch a war movie with countless casualites as they do a slasher or torture film features only a handful of people. Still, not pleasant to think about.

And I agree about the art comment, yes.


--------------------
Attention Manga Lust fans:
Lust is dead. Finished. Kaput. Joined the Choir Invisible. Roy Mustang incinerated her repeatedly until her Philosopher's Stone dried up and dissolved into nothingness ("Mu" for you Japanese cultural enthusiasts). And she will remain killed off, written out of the plot. Greed was reincarnated because Father saved his Philosopher's Stone and had a guinea pig on hand. Lust is gone. Stop trying to play God with the plot line and bring her back at every possibly junction.
In the event that Hiromu Arakawa can skillfully maneuver around this narrative plot hole, I will eat my words with a pinch of salt.
Nepharski - Our first, last, and hopeful not only line of defense against bad Homunculi theories.

My LiveJournal, because I'm a closet conformist
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Amol
post Feb 26 2007, 11:27 PM
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Valiance really captures the eye or many people in movies and ... , so may be sadism too , may be they make these movies to the interest of these people ?
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Carnal Malefacto...
post Apr 3 2007, 06:04 PM
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I think films like Hostel and Turistas [which is basically Hostel with a prettier backdrop] are a product of America's current standing in the world. You'll notice that all the American characters in these movies are completely unlikeable, spoilde frat boy/sorority girl types who feel that life is one big party. To many in the world, that's what our culture is - decadent and irresponsible. When these kids get horribly murdered by some depraved foreigner, it's a reflection of the desire of those who see us as decadent and irresponsible to do harm to us. The graphic nature of these movies is intended to serve as a reminder of the fact that atrocities are committed around the world every day, and often times at the hands of people who are paid with our tax dollars, and yet we don't bat an eyelash at them. So do we really have a right to feel shocked and disgusted by watching some American college kid get maimed or gutted?

That's my take on it, anyway.


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