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Human Cloning
Vivii
post Feb 13 2007, 09:52 PM
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Ok Hi everyone Im am really new to this site, but It is one of my favorite FMA sites and I Really enjoy coming to it:D anyways my question is Since Science can already produce Cloned animals, but when (if they havent already) they make human clones, what will become of them, because they wont actually have a soul will they??? Will they be like a Homunculus( sorry if improper spelling) And what about emotions and memories, will Clones be able to have those, or will they just be dolls!??? Will they only be able to produce a walking shell? I mean is it possible for clones to have fear, love, hate, etc.. the common emotions that we possess? I would love to hear from u guys on this one( oh yeah, if this topic has already been talked about sorry lol, im new:D)
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Popogeejo
post Feb 14 2007, 03:15 AM
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QUOTE
Since Science can already produce Cloned animals, but when (if they havent already) they make human clones, what will become of them, because they wont actually have a soul will they???
Clones would be just like normal babies, I don't get why you think they would not have a soul. (Don't base ideas on cartoons please.)

QUOTE
Will they be like a Homunculus( sorry if improper spelling)

In so far as they would have independent personalities from those they were "cloned" from. no super powers though.

QUOTE
And what about emotions and memories, will Clones be able to have those, or will they just be dolls!?
They would have memories and emotions. (Even the homunculi you are basing your idea of clones on had emotions and the ability to retain information.)

QUOTE
Will they only be able to produce a walking shell?

Who would clone an Emo? tongue.gif No, I'm sure they would be able to clone a perfectly normal human. It would be genetically identical to what it was cloned from (unless the scientists try some other stuff) but it would have it's own personality, just like twins and triplets.

QUOTE
I mean is it possible for clones to have fear, love, hate, etc.. the common emotions that we possess?

Yes. Emotions are caused by chemicals in the brain being secreted by environmental factors so a genetically identical clone will have all the emotions of whatever it was cloned from.

Also, there is no evidence of souls or how one gets one. They are not the source of emotion nor are they the factor that lets you have a memory.


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Chiyo
post Feb 14 2007, 03:26 AM
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I do believe they already have cloned a human..least that is something I heard once. The idea that clones will just be 'empty shells with no soul' is a very old idea and I suppose still is to people who fear progression in medicine. Just like Popo said an identical twin is a clone of its other half...are they empty shelled freaks?


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Lost Alchemist
post Feb 14 2007, 05:49 AM
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na i think that the clones will just like others. just without a hm.......can't spell now i'll be back when i get the spelling for the word i want!


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Vivii
post Feb 14 2007, 03:35 PM
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No Sorry I didn't mean to base it off a cartoon, hehe:d I wasn't implying FMA at all or any other cartoon. Haha Ya but good point i never thought about Twins and triplets:P
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Nepharski
post Feb 14 2007, 04:58 PM
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I question the process and the application more than the thing itself. Going with my late night television viewing schedule, anyone ever seen Gattaca? Or even The Pretender? We hear about Dolly the sheep and all that, and that's great, but I wonder just how many of Dolly's potential siblings they had to go through to get a perfect clone, and what they did with those "Siblings" if they weren't quite what they were looking for.

Fantastical, perhaps, but today's science fiction is tomorrow's science fact.

Cloning offers valuable opportunities to create organs for transplants, possibly study and cure some diseases, but I can't say I'm fond of the idea of total human cloning, if we even need it in the first place. And humans are an entirely different animal than sheep or dogs; what complications might arise? Metal Gear Solid, anyone?


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Amalthea
post Feb 14 2007, 07:04 PM
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The cloning of people is 295879 times more disturbing to me than animal cloning. Maybe it's because I consider humans to be of a higher order than other animals, but even for medical reasons, it's just amiss by my morals. I mean, seeing a fellow human being that was fabricated from a real person who was actually born is bothersome to me.


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Popogeejo
post Feb 14 2007, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE(Amalthea @ Feb 15 2007, 02:04 AM) [snapback]505259[/snapback]
The cloning of people is 295879 times more disturbing to me than animal cloning.

Yay for random numbers!

QUOTE
I mean, seeing a fellow human being that was fabricated from a real person who was actually born is bothersome to me.

What about IVF? It's basically the same thing.
Plenty of humans have been made in "unnatural" ways.


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Kenji
post Feb 14 2007, 07:40 PM
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QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 10:23 AM) [snapback]505283[/snapback]
QUOTE
I mean, seeing a fellow human being that was fabricated from a real person who was actually born is bothersome to me.

What about IVF? It's basically the same thing.
Plenty of humans have been made in "unnatural" ways.


At least IVF still involves male and female gamete... and the embryo is implanted back into the mother's womb which means, receiving nutrient from the fetus's parent thru umbilical cord... Human Cloning is 100% test tube... and it doesn't involved male and female gamete... which goes against the law of reproduction.

Most of the "unnatural ways" still involves womb...

IMO Human Cloning is forbidden because we as human, who lust for longevity will abuse them[the cloned ones]. We will abuse them, make them as our spare parts... For instance, when I lost a limb during an accident, I will get another replacement limb from my clone, instead of getting prothestic limbs... The "procedure" of removing his[my cloned one] limb will make him suffer... Removing his limb will make his ability limited...and how about when removing his heart, liver, lungs and brain when we need either of that? Without that, they will die and automatically...we have committed murder... Cloned humans does have the right to live... not treated as a body part bin...
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Chiyo
post Feb 15 2007, 02:45 AM
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^ We will not create humans just to farm body parts off. If religion and other opposing forces would allow for stem cells to be used no human would have to be born and raised to save anothers life. The cloning you are talking about belongs in a Sci-Fi film. Society will not go ahead with cloning until it can completely justify creating clones.

In fact what you just said sounds exactly like a novel I read...fiction one I might add.


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Kenji
post Feb 15 2007, 04:38 AM
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QUOTE(Chiyo @ Feb 15 2007, 05:45 PM) [snapback]505426[/snapback]
^ We will not create humans just to farm body parts off. If religion and other opposing forces would allow for stem cells to be used no human would have to be born and raised to save anothers life. The cloning you are talking about belongs in a Sci-Fi film. Society will not go ahead with cloning until it can completely justify creating clones.

In fact what you just said sounds exactly like a novel I read...fiction one I might add.


It might sounds fiction...but if human cloning is permitted, do you think this practice will happen? I bet on it!! It will happen surely happen...

Stem cells only forms a particular organ/body part depending on its engineering...but what I am saying here is butchering another people to save another human live if human cloning is permitted...

Stem cell research and human cloning belongs to different genetic engineering field...
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Popogeejo
post Feb 15 2007, 05:27 AM
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QUOTE
At least IVF still involves male and female gamete... and the embryo is implanted back into the mother's womb which means, receiving nutrient from the fetus's parent thru umbilical cord... Human Cloning is 100% test tube... and it doesn't involved male and female gamete... which goes against the law of reproduction.
There is no reason why clones could not be grown in a womans womb...
And even if it is test tube it's still a person.

QUOTE
IMO Human Cloning is forbidden because we as human, who lust for longevity will abuse them[the cloned ones]. We will abuse them, make them as our spare parts... For instance, when I lost a limb during an accident, I will get another replacement limb from my clone, instead of getting prothestic limbs... The "procedure" of removing his[my cloned one] limb will make him suffer... Removing his limb will make his ability limited...and how about when removing his heart, liver, lungs and brain when we need either of that? Without that, they will die and automatically...we have committed murder... Cloned humans does have the right to live... not treated as a body part bin...

Now your going into speculation with without a sense of logic. If we are going to make clones to use as spare parts we will not be making fully active humans. If we were going to do this we would create semi perfect clone without, for example, heads (yes, this is perfectly plausible). They would be kept alive via artificial means and been unaware of their existence. No Human rights breaches, no suffering, only spare parts. Chiyo is right though, no Human rights group will let this happen because they are stupid.

QUOTE
We hear about Dolly the sheep and all that, and that's great, but I wonder just how many of Dolly's potential siblings they had to go through to get a perfect clone, and what they did with those "Siblings" if they weren't quite what they were looking for.

Perfectly valid point. That is why we are doing these experiments on animals to see if we can perfect the method first. True, it may not be the same for people but so far animal testing has been proven to be hugely valuable. As for what happened to the failures, the Healthy ones were probably kept as research subjects and the malformed ones would have been put down and autopsied. I'p point out though that the odds of a malformed specimen being produced would probably be the same as in nature, the scientists weren't changing any of the DNA after all.


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Kenji
post Feb 15 2007, 06:08 AM
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QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 08:27 PM) [snapback]505450[/snapback]
QUOTE
At least IVF still involves male and female gamete... and the embryo is implanted back into the mother's womb which means, receiving nutrient from the fetus's parent thru umbilical cord... Human Cloning is 100% test tube... and it doesn't involved male and female gamete... which goes against the law of reproduction.
There is no reason why clones could not be grown in a womans womb...
And even if it is test tube it's still a person.


The only reason why clones could not be grown in a woman's womb is because clones are 100% test tube!! Clones are human without belly button, which means they doesn't have umbilical cord attached to them when they are a foetus... but cloning is like running a human factory...Futhermore, I din't stat that clones doesn't deserve to live... How the society will treat them[the clones] is still unknown...Rather than pity them later, I rather goes against it, since prevention is better than cure...


QUOTE

QUOTE
We hear about Dolly the sheep and all that, and that's great, but I wonder just how many of Dolly's potential siblings they had to go through to get a perfect clone, and what they did with those "Siblings" if they weren't quite what they were looking for.
Perfectly valid point. That is why we are doing these experiments on animals to see if we can perfect the method first. True, it may not be the same for people but so far animal testing has been proven to be hugely valuable. As for what happened to the failures, the Healthy ones were probably kept as research subjects and the malformed ones would have been put down and autopsied. I'p point out though that the odds of a malformed specimen being produced would probably be the same as in nature, the scientists weren't changing any of the DNA after all.


Animal cloning has been proven to be successful till now...even the FDA approved the consumption of meat from cloned animals...
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Popogeejo
post Feb 15 2007, 06:12 AM
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QUOTE
The only reason why clones could not be grown in a woman's womb is because clones are 100% test tube!!
Why?

QUOTE
Futhermore, I din't stat that clones doesn't deserve to live...
No one you did...

QUOTE
Rather than pity them later, I rather goes against it, since prevention is better than cure...
We should still have the cure available if the prevention doesn't work.


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Kenji
post Feb 15 2007, 06:28 AM
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QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Feb 15 2007, 09:12 PM) [snapback]505457[/snapback]
QUOTE
The only reason why clones could not be grown in a woman's womb is because clones are 100% test tube!!
Why?


Because clones are born from somatic cell nuclear transfer [SCNT]!! It doesn't need any womb... thus clones are 100% test tube...

QUOTE
QUOTE
Futhermore, I din't stat that clones doesn't deserve to live...
No one you did...

Glad to know that...


QUOTE

QUOTE
Rather than pity them later, I rather goes against it, since prevention is better than cure...
We should still have the cure available if the prevention doesn't work.


Whats the cure? How? Grand massacre? Chop them into hamburger meat and feed to the tigers at zoo? Aww...yuck
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