HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Xingese Alchemy Discussions, Caution! Much Spoilers
Vagrant
post Jul 20 2009, 03:17 AM
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Well, when I originally asked about the official translation; I was thinking of the manga. Since that's the only thing that would've had a prior official translation at the time.

And the unofficial manga translation calls it rentanjutsu as well. So the anime and the manga call it the same thing. Albeit with different translations.

Suppose that confirms it has no meaning or literal translation or whatever.


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Zii
post Jul 20 2009, 06:56 AM
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QUOTE (Vagrant @ Jul 20 2009, 07:47 PM) *
Suppose that confirms it has no meaning or literal translation or whatever.

That's what I suspected after they used 'alkahestry' - this term has only showed up in English FMA. It's invented because rentanjutsu has no true translation, it being an invented word itself, right? Or at least non-standard...

Also (and I'll get thwacked for more OTness), there's more than one official English manga translation: what we get in Australia/Oceania (Chuang Yi) first refers to both forms as alchemy, and then later by their untranslated names. To avoid confusion where the distinction shows up a lot more, I guess.

As for the Xingese characters not fitting in, well... isn't that a given? They're foreigners 8D They give an already yummy series even more flavour. As somebody who isn't much of a fan of Asian themes (screw ninjas, I'm a pirate girl, etc), I still really appreciate them. Mostly because Ling is great for comedy, and he has Tamaki's voice too, that's even better! You can tell I don't read/watch this specifically for the drama or complexity >>
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Tombow
post Jul 20 2009, 02:53 PM
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QUOTE (kitsunepixie @ Jul 15 2009, 04:14 PM) *
錬丹術(煉丹術、れんたんじゅつ)は、中国の道士の術の一つ。辰砂などから抽出した硫化水銀(丹)を原料とし、服用すると不老不死の仙人になれ、金も作れる霊薬(仙丹)をつくる。

"Rentanjutsu is one of the arts of Chinese Taoist monks. It uses mercury(II) sulfide (HgS) (丹tan) extracted from substances such as cinnabar as a raw material, which if taken makes one become an immortal who will not age or die (不老不死furoufushi), and will even make gold and a panacea (仙丹sentan)."

Yeah, Qin Shi Huang (or Ch'in Shih Huang-ti or whatever the correct term for his name is.. ^^) the first emperor of China (Chin/ Shing /Xing ... or whatever the correct spelling should be.. ^^) who unified china and made the empire and also ordered to make Terracotta Army, and all that... he was said to have searched for immortality, and then kept taking the "immortality elixir" 仙丹 that was some kind of mercury mixture and eventually died of mercury poisoning (so I read.. Though I can't locate the source, so just take it as some "tale" XD .. I think that might have been on National Geographic magazine that had the special article on Terracotta Army. ^^) ....


QUOTE (kkg22104 @ Jul 18 2009, 09:11 AM) *
Okay, I had to ask my parents about that Wiki article but even they don't know much about it because it's apparently related to some ancient Chinese medical stuff. Basically, they believed that the center of the body was in a small area (orb maybe?) slightly under your belly button (it's related to yin/yang too), and by doing different exercises (like breathing exercises) you can make yourself live longer. Sounds confusing, but it actually works, some people can lose and gain weight just by changing their breathing. Yeah...not sure if any of this is related to Rentanjutsu in FMA XD

That's basically controlling your "chi" right? And yes, you can manipulate the breathing and possibly lower heart rate, and blood pressure and that kind of stuff (like Bio-Feedback) and hence that may lead to longer life, etc., I think. Aaaand, "chi" is like the force that's within you, but also surround you, blah blah, basically "force be with you" Star War kind thing, I think?? Which, in my personal opinion is, some sort of electro magnetic kind of stuff, and the Earth has the lines of electro magnetic field running through (as May explains to Marcoh in one manga chapter) so if you know how to manipulate it you can perform remote Alchemy... or not... tongue.gif


BTW, it has nothing to do with the serious discussion, but I got to comment... XD
QUOTE (kkg22104 @ Jul 18 2009, 09:11 AM) *
QUOTE (thunderbreak @ Jul 16 2009, 08:41 PM) *
it often appears in traditional fantasy stories.
oddly enough,they look a bit like white orbs like this :

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E7%82%BC%E4%B8%B9
link baidu
in chinese.i try to see if i can translate this.there's a lot of taoist terms i'm not good at it.

Hey, that white orb looks like a fruit called li zhi laugh.gif

I know!! That's just a pic of a lychee. laugh.gif laugh.gif (I luv thunderbreak's humor here. XD)


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kkg22104
post Jul 20 2009, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (Tombow @ Jul 20 2009, 04:53 PM) *
That's basically controlling your "chi" right? And yes, you can manipulate the breathing and possibly lower heart rate, and blood pressure and that kind of stuff (like Bio-Feedback) and hence that may lead to longer life, etc., I think. Aaaand, "chi" is like the force that's within you, but also surround you, blah blah, basically "force be with you" Star War kind thing, I think?? Which, in my personal opinion is, some sort of electro magnetic kind of stuff, and the Earth has the lines of electro magnetic field running through (as May explains to Marcoh in one manga chapter) so if you know how to manipulate it you can perform remote Alchemy... or not... tongue.gif

...

I know!! That's just a pic of a lychee. laugh.gif laugh.gif (I luv thunderbreak's humor here. XD)

I suppose so, but what exactly is your "chi" anyway? When my parents were explaining it to me, they didn't say anything about "chi," so is it a Japanese term? Lol @ Star Wars reference tongue.gif

OT: Those things are really good, but I ate so many when I was in the south with my dad that I got sick of them (same with mangoes)


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whippersnapper
post Nov 8 2009, 06:21 AM
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When Ed used his own life force to heal himself, did he actually use rentanjutsu by accident?

I came to this conclusion by this train of thought:

(a)I assume that when Mei heals people, she uses the chi in that person (since she can't heal places there's no chi)
(b)she sensed a huge mass of chi underground, so it's safe to assume that the souls in Father = chi
(c )Ed used his "one-soul philosopher stone" to stop his bleeding and protect his vital organs, and since soul= chi, he's using his chi to heal himself -->rentanjutsu!

What do you think?

Ed couldn't heal himself completely, he just stopped the bleeding. And Mei also stopped the bleeding on Marco's face, we have not seen her done anything more in terms of healing. (very recent spoiler, read at own risk!)for chapter 101: Mei couldn't heal Riza completely as well, she said:"I stopped the bleeding for now." "We should get her to a doctor who can take care of the rest." (Tombow's translation). So we can see Ed's technique was very similar to Mei, with the same limitation.


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Sannom
post Nov 8 2009, 06:35 AM
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I don't think so. With my own theories and understandings of Renkinjutsu and Rentanjutsu as they exist in the manga, the main thing that differentiates Rentanjutsu from Renkinjutsu is the fact that it enables long-distance transmutations and near-universal transmutation with only one circle. I think both use life-energy for transmutation, except that Renkinjutsu use an artificial source and Rentanjutsu use a natural source.

What Ed did was use up some of his life-energy to give more strength to his transmutations and heal himself, a true Deus Ex Machina move that Arakawa went out of her way to explain that it will never be used again. May would have just redirected that energy, modified the flow to heal the wound, not using up the energy. The reason Ed limited the healing is mainly because he didn't want to use too much of his own energy, while Rentanjutsu seems to have limitations on how modify the flow of energy.
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Koala
post Jan 2 2010, 06:22 PM
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Hmm... I haven't read any of the previous writings so I don't know what you all have guessed but here is some of my knowledge and/or speculation. I think the person who brought alchemy to Amestris was Father and the other person who brought rentanjutsu to Xing was Hohenheim. (I think actually that this is a quite common guess but the reason why I write this here is only to clarify my own thoughts.)
So after Xerxes had been destroyed, one person came to Amestris and brought knowledge of alchemy there. In the episode 18 of FMA:Brotherhood that person resembled Father (and Hohenheim) and we know that Father could prevent alchemists using their ability in the country (maybe by changing the source of the power used to do alchemy or something). Then there was also another person who was also said to be the only one who survived from the devastation of Xerxes and that person brought the knowledge of rentanjutsu to Xing (yeah and in that same episode this person resembled also Hohenheim and Father only made a little bit more like he had been from the East). Both of these bearers of that certain knowledge came from Xerxes and the only ones who survived there were Father and Hohenheim.
(Well I don't remember if there was said somewhere in the manga that Hohenheim went straight to Amestris (and definitely not to Xing) and if so, that will ruin my theory immediately but yeah, nothing can stop me trying I guess...)
So the starting point both alchemy and rentanjutsu were the same they just separated and took different paths. Yeah... is there something I'm missing now... Well anyways this topic has almost been forgotten so by this I'm at least trying to attain some discuss here again. (was that just an excuse...? Probably...)
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