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Is Rose Really That Weak?, May contain spoilers or Stingray
Popogeejo
post May 21 2007, 08:02 PM
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QUOTE(SilverSnow @ May 22 2007, 03:23 AM) [snapback]545856[/snapback]
She's weak because
-What kind of dumb*** do you need to be to belive some creepy priest can bring the dead back just like that without even getting anything in return because they're sooo good and they're such saints??

Father Cornello gave weekly displays of his power. Turning a stump into a giant iron statue is a pretty convincing trick so you can't seriously hold it against Rose. Billions of people believe in Religions with far less evidence backing them than Cornellos church.

QUOTE
-If you follow a bunch of military guys when you're alone and you're a young girl you musn't be very smart.
1) She was taken by force,
2) Even if this wasn't the case these people weren't going to give her a choice. If she had refused odds are she would have been shot.

QUOTE
-She tried to save other kids from getting raped or something, yes that's very nice but haven't you ever heard of what a PLAN is?

Her whole village has been thrown into chaos, she managed to find a relativity safe hiding place and save some kids. You do better in a war zone.

QUOTE
-She cries sooo much - _ - it's ok to cry but errr.... *looks at 400 ton pile of tissues*
Yeah, it's not like her whole life and belief system had just come crashing down around her head...oh wait, it did!

QUOTE
-Everyone here knows this, in fact it's the first thing my parents told me : NEVER TRUST STRANGERS.

Which stranger are you referring to?
The kindly Preacher who has saved the Village and brought them prosperity?
The odd young boy and the guy in armour who claim the religion is false without evidence?
The military who took her by force (in more ways than one)?

Be more specific please.

QUOTE
-Another thing that is kind of like the last thing trust no one.

Ed trusted Roy therefore Ed must be weak...

QUOTE
-I agree it's hard to resist a 400 year olf alchemist but then why doesn't she start looking out for herself and use that little thing in her head called brain and say, oh until today I have not thought about how much weaker (physically) I am than alchemists, it's not safe because there's many things I don't know and overall faces we see hearts we don't, so I think I'll get far away from them for a while then plan if I want to know how and who they are,
I don't even begin to understand this.
Rose went through a traumatic experience and was in shock. This means she was unable to think clearly. You can't blame her for following someone who offered her protection and looked after her.

QUOTE
-Her life wasn't going anywhere, it's isn't going anywhere and probably it won't be going anywhere, what does she do all days? doesn't she have plans for her life? like I need to do something, I dunno maybe she can start a donations for the poor center or she can learn to do something or go to school or learn the way to treat with people, what kind is good, what kind is bad etc.

WTF?
It's never said how her life was doing except that she was apparently happier and her boyfriend/brother (depending on translations) had died.
As for the donations statement, she helps out at the church. She appears to only be a few years older than Ed (about 16-17) so you can't blame her for apparently having no plans. Besides, none of that was a sign of weakness.

QUOTE
-All her reactions are stupid, very naive. nice has nothing to do with stupid.

Again, nothing to do with weakness...

All you've basically said is "Why didn't she know what the viewer knew and act in a more heroic fashion?"


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Alchemical
post May 22 2007, 03:13 PM
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Well, it depends on how you look at it, in my opinion. One reason she may be 'weak' is because, before her boyfriend/brother died, she lived a very peaceful and sheltered life. Even afterwards, she was taken 'under the wing', to say the least, of Cornello. And it was a pretty big thing to deal with, being lied to like that, not long after the death of her loved one.

Besides, she also went through many, many other hardships, such as the baby, her city being torn to bits, and watching some pretty scary things happen right before her eyes. I don't think anyone has the right to call her 'weak', because we would be just like her if those things happened to us. People just take things differently.
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Mrs.Briefs
post May 22 2007, 05:54 PM
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I agree with most things said here. It's why I can't find myself to dislike her when she has her moments. I would think that if some were her, they'd probably just go ahead and commit suicide, lol. But she didn't. That says something about her. I don't really see how she could've taken all that any better than what she did really.

And now that I think of it Popo that 'stranger' she was talking about could've been Dante. (The one who can answer that is her herself though.) And if that's the case, like he said.


QUOTE
Rose is suffering from shock and/or Trauma after "some bad .... went down" and this person comes along offering support and kindness. Who wouldn't follow Dante in that kind of situation even without Dante using any of her extra trickery to lure Rose to her side?
Where else could she go?


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Amethyst Sunset
post May 23 2007, 03:04 AM
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And it's not just her boyfriend that Rose lost. In episode 1, it was mentioned that she also lost her parents at an early age. A lot of people would already commit suicide after losing a single loved one. Rose was really just hanging by a thread when she encountered Cornello - and assuming that she wasn't very familiar with alchemy before she met Ed and Al, his parlor tricks looked like miracles to her and the rest of Lior.

Of course, once she learns of the truth, that Cornello, the big fat fraud that he is, just used alchemy, Rose was also distressed, knowing that she can no longer trust the man she once had faith in. Things would have gone a lot more smoothly without the Elrics revealing Cornello's trickery, but of course, the truth will set you free. XD

Then there's ol' Envy posing as Cornello and causing a huge uprising that calls for military intervention. Now then, who can admit that they can protect a group of kids during the chaos like Rose did? She even stood up to General Hakuro and got slapped because of it (and yes, got raped as well). A lot of us, when faced by a general like that, would probably just stay silent.

Dante...she's Dante. And I thought she was rather convincing to Rose, like Cornello...I guess you could say that even though she has been deceived in the past, Rose continues to trust. In my book, that's pretty brave, and selfless. And the baby she got from the raping...instead of killing him or giving him to someone else for adoption, she chose to take care of him herself. (Erm, do correct me if my assumptions that the baby is a guy are wrong. XD) It was a duty she didn't run away from.

And it wasn't her fault she was under Dante's control. Even though Rose can be a little too trusting at times, she isn't weak. She's just been through a lot and is struggling to carve her own niche into the world, to get up and use her pair of strong legs. happy.gif In fact, I'm surprised that despite all that, she hasn't committed suicide yet.

*bows* In short, I agree with everyone else that Rose is not weak. And yes, I am rather fond of her character. I especially liked the part where she got her voice back and told Ed to get up and move forward when he was paralyzed at the sight of Sloth.


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Chiyo
post May 23 2007, 03:10 AM
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Unfortunatly, I don't think you can use the arguement of her losing people too much as she is not the only one. Showing how they react to loss defines the character. Ed and Al become determined and strong, Winry and Pinako get on with life, Rose becomes vulnerable to people using her because of it.

I'd say thats part of the reason people see her as weak, they have others to compare her to.


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Amethyst Sunset
post May 23 2007, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE(Chiyo @ May 23 2007, 06:10 PM) [snapback]546422[/snapback]
Unfortunatly, I don't think you can use the arguement of her losing people too much as she is not the only one. Showing how they react to loss defines the character. Ed and Al become determined and strong, Winry and Pinako get on with life, Rose becomes vulnerable to people using her because of it.

I'd say thats part of the reason people see her as weak, they have others to compare her to.


And Roy decides to become Fuhrer after his Ishbal massacre experiences.

FMA is full of strong characters. If Rose weren't around, it would get a little boring. Imperfection is unpredictable, therefore more exciting. Besides, not everyone can be as strong as Ed and Al and almost everyone else in the series.


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Popogeejo
post May 23 2007, 07:59 AM
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QUOTE
A lot of people would already commit suicide after losing a single loved one.

While I agree with most of your post this just just struck me as rather odd and uninformed. In truth very few people consider/commit suicide due to losing a loved one...


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ehxhfdl14
post May 23 2007, 05:14 PM
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Well, personally, I think of Rose as a person that went through a transition, from weak → strong, because when the Elrics first visited Lior, she was just so...needy and naive to the ways of the world. From the start, I had a suspicion that she-and quite a few townsfolk, too, as I found out-needed someone to hold on to for support, somebody to cling to. The refusal to face the truth, the fact that the 'prophet' was fake, just solidified my suspicion. If she faced the truth, the one person she leaned on for support would be gone, along with the fragile hope of her lover's resurrection.
After the Elrics' departure. All right, so she didn't arm herself to fight the soldiers. So what? She didn't have the skill. Now, whatever Hollywood tells you, guns, especially rifles that are being shown as being used by the Liorians in the war, require actual skill. You have to be able to aim and reload, and before that, the firearms are heavier than they look. Rose obviously didn't have the training. Besides, I doubt many of the people in the world would, in that situation, do what Rose did. Because she couldn't fight, Rose did the next best thing she could-Rose tried to protect ones that were even more vulnerable than she, the children. Here, we see a glimpse of what she has become, not just a weak girl that needs to be protected from the world, but rather a woman that is prepared to 'walk on her two own legs'. She even defies the soldiers, which is pretty brave. Too bad she gets raped after, though. But it's the most realistic thing that could have happened, besides Rose being killed by the soldiers, or something akin to it.
Now, about the Dante thing. I'm not really sure what happened there. It looked like she was hyptonized, because if she was drugged, Ed dying wouldn't really break her out of her trance-like state, would it? Well, maybe she went into shock, but I find that unlikely. So she's not really to be blamed for being docile around Dante. Or dancing with Ed. Come on, that was one dance. one. She probably didn't even know what she was doing. I don't know where Dante came up with the idea that Ed liked Rose though. Yes, he blushed, but he really didn't have any experience around girls, other than Winry, and he's known her for, I don't know, all his life? So since Winry doesn't really count, and Ed's been busy with his quest and all, this was likely his first intimate exchange with a girl (Psiren thing disregarded).
So I'm trying to say behind the senseless rambling is that yes, Rose was weak at first, but with time, she matured into a stronger persona. That's it.


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Amethyst Sunset
post May 23 2007, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE(Popogeejo @ May 23 2007, 10:59 PM) [snapback]546444[/snapback]
QUOTE
A lot of people would already commit suicide after losing a single loved one.

While I agree with most of your post this just just struck me as rather odd and uninformed. In truth very few people consider/commit suicide due to losing a loved one...


Okay, maybe some people. ^^; I live in a country where suicide for that reason is not uncommon, so I might have been biased.

And to add to my two cenzts, in the movie, Rose can be seen protecting children - at least, that's how I saw it - with Armstrong when the suits of armor from the other side of the Gate came in and Al drove them back.


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Chiyo
post May 25 2007, 02:56 AM
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QUOTE(Amethyst Sunset @ May 23 2007, 03:41 PM) [snapback]546440[/snapback]
FMA is full of strong characters. If Rose weren't around, it would get a little boring. Imperfection is unpredictable, therefore more exciting. Besides, not everyone can be as strong as Ed and Al and almost everyone else in the series.


Well, exactly, but thats just saying that Rose IS a weak character, for that is how she is designed to be. She gives the variant from the 'stronger' characters.


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Amethyst Sunset
post May 25 2007, 03:45 AM
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QUOTE(Chiyo @ May 25 2007, 05:56 PM) [snapback]547025[/snapback]
QUOTE(Amethyst Sunset @ May 23 2007, 03:41 PM) [snapback]546440[/snapback]
FMA is full of strong characters. If Rose weren't around, it would get a little boring. Imperfection is unpredictable, therefore more exciting. Besides, not everyone can be as strong as Ed and Al and almost everyone else in the series.


Well, exactly, but thats just saying that Rose IS a weak character, for that is how she is designed to be. She gives the variant from the 'stronger' characters.


Whoops, looks like I contradicted meself. A faux pas in debate. XDDDD

Guess what I meant to say is that even though she isn't portrayed to be as strong as everyone else, and strong in the same sense as everyone else, Rose is still strong in her own way.


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Chiyo
post May 25 2007, 05:11 AM
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Oh agreed, and I didn't mean to suggest her 'weakness' is wrong anyway, because as you say it makes her who she is. As stated, she comes across as 'weak' because of the type of person that surrounds her.....but in the same way Ed seems arrogant next to his brother...Wrath is a whiney child next to Envy etc.


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