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Episode 63: The Other Side Of The Gate - Content Discussion Thread, Warning, MAJOR spoilers for the first 63 episodes & series end
Broken Chouchou
post Jun 29 2010, 08:13 AM
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QUOTE (Winry Chan @ Jun 29 2010, 10:49 AM) *
My point being that even though Father was a mass-murderer and power-hungry, there was more than that to his character.


You mean, that he was also a pathetic coward? tongue.gif

I'm not sure what I felt was exactly sympathy per se. Rather, I feel the scene provoked pity. Now it's our turn to look down on him, he is a being worth of loath and disgust... and he is very pitiful. Your comparison to a child feels pretty accurate; he is very selfish and childish in his ways of thinking, he only cares about himself, he'll do anything to get what he wants, and he doesn't care or even stops to think about others. But when put in front of parent/authoritative figure/someone bigger than himelf, and threatened with punishment, he is reduced to crying and begs for his own life, apologising for his deeds.

(Some violent people are like that; they gladly subject others to pain and suffering, but when they themselves are subjected to it, they break down and beg for mercy. Which annoys me. It's so selfish, and feels very hypocritic. Like they don't even realise what they've been doing to others all along, like they don't understand, until now (if they even do so). Very much like a child, before he/she learns. This may be because they're psychopaths who lack the ability to empathise with other people. But I believe some bullies and bad (or even evil) people are sometimes in fact really just big, egocentric children, who don't truly understand.

Some baddies can't care, they don't have the capability to. Some baddies don't understand. And some baddies just don't care, even when fully sane. I think Father is a combination of all three, really. Since he isn't human, he doesn't look at things the same way most of us do. He doesn't have any human compassion, he doesn't understand it, and he doesn't want it.)

Anyway, I didn't mind the way Father's "serving of justice" scene was handled. (By the way, it feels really odd calling him Father now that he is that black ball thing again, and espacially after his pathetic ending. I wonder what the homonculi, who obeyed him and respected him without question (except for Greed), would think of him if they saw him in this sorry state.) There wasn't really any specifically "sad" music if my memory serves me right? They used that wonders-and-mysteries-sounding piece that also played when the Ishvalans put all their transmutation points in place? I thought that was a nice choice. Father returning to his unknown origins; the lid that was once opened a long time ago and allowed the thing that that started it all to be born, is put back on, and the mysteries remain mysteries, the evidence erased from the world.

I could imagine that maybe in terms of getting full satisfaction out of seeing Father punished, desperately crying in fear, it could have worked even better with another track, or possibly withouout any music at all, during this scene. I like it how it is though.

EDIT: Okay, there was actually some sad music when Father was defeated, and when he was sucked into the Gate. But, maybe it isn't enirely unfitting. Evil is a really sad thing (cheesy line of the day).

And, I was reminded, I would have really liked Thrisha's Lullaby to play when Ed starts crying, rather than the song we got. We haven't heard the original verision of it since early in the series I believe, it would be nice to hear it again as things are concluding. No to mention, I think the song in use is the same one as when Envy dies, and really, this feels a bit undignifying to the series main protagonist, in a really emotional and gripping moment of his, sharing melody with one of the most gruesome and pathetic homunculi XP I hope we get to hear Trisha's Lullaby before the series is over, at least.


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Chiyo
post Jun 29 2010, 11:53 AM
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Apart from avoiding discussing Episode 64 please be reminded;

-Do not spam.
-No Spoilers
-Do not go off topic
-Do not fight

Spam means one line posts that contain little content. "OMG that ep was so cool" would be an example of spam. If you enjoyed the episode please specify what you enjoyed so much, was there anything you didn't like? If you ant to have a conversation with someone, do so via PM. Please also avoid clogging up the pages with replies that involves you quoting someone and adding "I agree" or similar.

Spoilers mean anything you know (or guess) will happen in the upcoming episode. Not everybody reads the manga and you may reveal something they didn't know. For for episode 64 discussionpredictions, please go to the relevant topic. If you are unsure how to use spoiler tags, please ask.

Going off topic means discussing a characters actions outside of the episode, or talking about the artwork, or upcoming episodes etc. I know this can happen easily so don't be upset if I move your posts or guide you in the right direction. Double check the forum for the right place to take your post, or if required, start a new topic.

Everybody can voice their opinion, and nobody is correct just as nobody is incorrect. Because none of you will spam (right?) people will justify why they didn't like something. You are welcome to say "well I like that part because..." but you CAN NOT say "no you are wrong because..."


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zonkiethegreat
post Jun 29 2010, 02:02 PM
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QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Jun 29 2010, 11:13 AM) *
QUOTE (Winry Chan @ Jun 29 2010, 10:49 AM) *
My point being that even though Father was a mass-murderer and power-hungry, there was more than that to his character.


You mean, that he was also a pathetic coward? tongue.gif

I'm not sure what I felt was exactly sympathy per se. Rather, I feel the scene provoked pity. Now it's our turn to look down on him, he is a being worth of loath and disgust... and he is very pitiful. Your comparison to a child feels pretty accurate; he is very selfish and childish in his ways of thinking, he only cares about himself, he'll do anything to get what he wants, and he doesn't care or even stops to think about others. But when put in front of parent/authoritative figure/someone bigger than himelf, and threatened with punishment, he is reduced to crying and begs for his own life, apologising for his deeds.


I agree with BrokenChouChou on the point about Father's fate. I think "pity" and not "sympathy" is the correct way to express our general feeling for the character's end. In the end, Father deserved his punishment.
Reason for edit: Don't quote the whole text, just specifically the part you are responding to.


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AXavierB
post Jun 29 2010, 08:10 PM
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BrokenChouChou

I think "Trisha's Lullaby" should be used again too. It's the closest song Brotherhood has to something like "Bratja" from the first anime. I'd like it if they played it over the credits for the final episode.


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deet-tastic
post Jun 30 2010, 10:20 AM
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^ just realized we haven't heard that track in a LoOONG time.

Here's a fun note, I was watching this ep and my cousin looked over my shoulder and said "That blonde kid is just wailing on that guy. Ha, rape"
in regards to the beginning when Ed is just punching Father to crap.
Made me giggle, thought I'd share.


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Forsaken Love
post Jun 30 2010, 10:57 AM
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thought this ep was really niiiice <3 The Hoho montage at the end was so nice, I felt a lot sadder that he died in this than in the manga actually, I'd say the only thing that actually bugged me was ling and ed's expressions when Greed died, in the manga they were pained and made me feel really tearful XD In the anime, they wernt drawn to capture the same emotion, Ed in particular, I didnt feel the sadness like I did in the manga, they just seemed a little expressionless in a way, part from that little detail great ep, Truth's expression at Ed's little speech was epic XD hahaha


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Broken Chouchou
post Jun 30 2010, 11:04 AM
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QUOTE (AXavierB @ Jun 30 2010, 05:10 AM) *
BrokenChouChou

I think "Trisha's Lullaby" should be used again too. It's the closest song Brotherhood has to something like "Bratja" from the first anime. I'd like it if they played it over the credits for the final episode.


It's a very solemn song, I'm not sure that would be right for the credits since this is in fact a very happy ending. Which is why I would have liked them to play it in episode 63 during the Ed's sad moment (which I think had the potential to be a bit more emotional than Brotherhood made it).

Buuut I really don't know, just turned the song on, I'm listening to it now and maybe it would work, against a black, cinematic credit roll. Even if it hasn't been used that much, it really feels representative for Brotherhood, as you say it's the closest thing it has to Bratja. It makes me feel nostalgic and look back on the series, the brothers many hardships and all the somber times, but also on how they overcome them. It feels like the song speaks of sadness in the past, and of healing your wounds, rather than of hopeless despair in the present. It's sad, but not ALL sad, It has a feeling of in positivity in there, too, I think.

And, we all ARE sad to see FMA go, after all, even after such a happy ending ^^

EDITL: Watched the episode again and the Hohenheim scene sent shivers through my body, and I teared up again. This was the third time I watched it, and it's still just that powerful. When Pinako gasps and realises he's dead, her reaction to it, and Hoho papa's smiling face. And Rain playing *sniffle* Wah.

Another powerful moment the first time I watched the episode, mostly because I wasn't expecting it, was Mei crying when she hugs Al. You expected her to sob a bit and then you thought it'd be over with, but then she breaks out in full wail. She's just letting herself go. It sounded so real and genuine. I felt with her there. As did I in the manga. I think this scene, and the one where she cries when she helps Al sacrifice himself, is what made me really feel AlxMei to be more than a comical crackpairing, for the first time.


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Winry Chi
post Jun 30 2010, 06:04 PM
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I liked how Ed's Truth's voice was more so Romi Paku this time. >w< It was fitting.

The extended Hohenheim death was very emotion-provoking.

I disliked that they cut out Alphonse's reaction to the handshake. But in a sense the expression he had on his face while Mei hugged him made up for it.

Ed crying was well-done, the movement was nice. However, I still sort of prefer the panel that was used in the manga for immediate emotion-provoking.

The ED sequence was neat. The montage of clips from both the OP's and the actual Episodes were a good choice. I especially liked how they included the scene of when Hohenheim was in Resembool and was looking over Ed as he was in the bed.

I'm rather happy Hohenheim and Trisha and finally together again. <3

As most have said on this forum already, "Looks like.. It's started to rain."


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penguintruth
post Jul 2 2010, 05:09 PM
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Father, while not coming of sympathetic, nevertheless comes off pitiable, because he wanted to be free of that which binds everyone and stand above it all. Of course, he did terrible things to accomplish it, so we shouldn't feel bad that he was defeated, just that he was so desperate to obtain that goal and so arrogant. I think Hohenheim finally understood why it was the Dwarf in the Flask felt that way in this episode, thus the extra scene with him standing where Father had been pulled in by "God".

Anyway, despite it not revealing what the nature of "God" is or really what Father's true nature is, it was an excellent episode. I especially liked Edward's cleverness in figuring out to sacrifice his Gate. He's always been more of a thinker than a fighter, and ultimately it proves to be what turns tragedy into success.

My review is up on my blog! biggrin.gif


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Winry Chi
post Jul 2 2010, 09:01 PM
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So...with my second viewing of the episode I noticed some changes they made with the manga-to-episode animation that really stuck out to me, anyone else have ones to add to the list? :

Alphonse woke up instead. They changed this scene from the manga to having Alphonse wake up on the battlefield, already lying down under coats and being surrounded. So pretty much Brotherhood showed the manga scene, but with a slight change of a time period.

Al's Reaction to Hohenheim's hand shake. I honestly wish they would have put in Al's reaction, it was comedic and rather essential in my opinion, being that it really made it stand out that Al was finally able to feel through his own body.

Sig hugging Alphonse was deleted from the episode as well, I could see why, being that Al is so frail at that point and time, and in a sense if Sid had really hugged him with his full might, there would be some explaining needed as to how this didn't injure or at least cause Al some pain.

Ed giving Mrs. Bradley the live remains of Selim was altered to being an "after-direct-battle" time frame. This being proven due to Ed not having a totally ripped up-shirt on any longer. Ed had been wearing bandages (more than just the arm-bandage Brotherhood gave him.)

Roy after battle, his talk with Marcoh was moved not only from the manga's timeframe, but moved to Episode 64, since the preview of it showed him and Marcoh conversing in a hospital setting, Roy also in a patient-attire. I'm guessing this was done to keep a better flow as to where 63 cut off at. I'm hoping that Riza's minor surgery/recovery will still be included. The manga pages: http://mangastream.com/read/fullmetal_alchemist/37981928/61 and http://mangastream.com/read/fullmetal_alchemist/37981928/62 I would assume this would take place prior to the scene of Marcoh and Roy in 64, if it is at all included.

What irked me most was that BONES seems to have skipped over the direct recovery/bandaging/surgical events that in the manga occured directly after the battle. They also moved around the time frame "conveniently" to place Hohenheim's death as the end of 63, when in the manga his death does not even take place until after Ling and company bid farewell to Ed and Al.


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MsLinn
post Jul 12 2010, 04:31 PM
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I was saving the last eps so I could watch at the same time, that's why I'm so late.
Greed looked like a beanie. But it was sad, so sad.
<Insert intelligent musings about Father here> I really don't remember anything from Father!Battle/Death (it was less important for me), so I don't know what to say. Although, I DID pity him. He wanted something. But he was doing it wrong. So very wrong.
All I can say about the rescue-Al scene is that I wish I was there. Edward's tears. And the look on his face when he slowly and carefully drew the circle. Pefect.
Oh, and extra-super-cute eyecatchers!
Also, I'm not glad they cut out Roy's absolute convincion that Ed will not sacrifice himself. That he have learnt something. Oh ,well. There was the "promise not to use the PS to bring our bodies back!".
Ok, the scene inside the Gate...Dare I say it!? It was better than the manga! I loved Thruth's D: and *facepalm*! And Ed is so beautiful right when he says (sth like) "Even if I lose alchemy, I still have my friends". And shoot me if the last "Edo" wasn't Winry. Well, other than that it was like the manga...SOME added dialogue maybe...
Then the animation-quality went down for a half minute, but I can deal with that! biggrin.gif
Al. Finally. He is perfect. I can watch the scene where he opens his eyes like, a million times! He looks so content! His voice fits him so well! I wish he wouldn't cut his hair!
It was Hoho who made me cry, though. When he really didn't wanna die. It breaks my heart. And when he told Trisha Ed called him "Dad". Heartbreaking. He was one of my favorite characters.
(I had wierd, strange feeling that when Hoho was talking to himself, he was gonna say that he wanted freedom just like Flask!Father as they were basically the same person, because Father was brought from the Gate and given substance thanks too Hoho's blood (?!?). But Hoho's freedom was death, but that clashes with his "I really didn't want to die"...And he would blame himself for...everything. Ignore me.)
(And why he said "Thank you" to Alex. First I thought it was like every parent, he was immensly proud over his sons and everyone who praises them are deffinetly intelligent, clear-minded people! XD But that would be foolish since he very much know he had little to do with their upbringing. Then I thought it was because he then knew his life wasn't completely in vain, and he was thankful for that. ...But now I like my first theory better! Just look at his face when Al apologizes to Mei!)

>.> Another long one.


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Michiyo-
post Sep 17 2011, 01:51 PM
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Please add FMA:B English dubbed episode 63 (on CN on Adult Swim) talk-back/discussions here. smile.gif

FMA:B will air 1:00 AM - 1: 30 AM and 5:00 AM - 5:30 AM eastern time. smile.gif


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IronBlood Alchem...
post Sep 18 2011, 01:59 AM
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<Thread Merged by Michiyo->

Is episode 63 Brotherhood finale?:The last episode of FMA Brotherhood

So I just watched the last episode (or what appears to be the last episode), and I find myself horribly disappointed in the ending. [adult swim] aired this tonight, September 18 2011, 1:00am US Pacific standard (just for clarification of airing episode and time).
(Warning! Series final spoilers ahead! ->) Father had been defeated (epic happy party time sweet lol), Ed gave up his gate for Al, and then Hohenheim went back to Trisha's grave. I'd seen and read stuff about how the ending was supposed to have some bonus stuff in the credits, including a picture of a much older Ed and Winry holding their children joined by an aged Al and May, and a few other cast members. Not to mention the ending of the manga that showed Ed towering over Winry at the train station, and how everyone else goes along successful in their own paths (Ling becomes emperor, the chimera start their own journey to become human again, etc. Anyone that's read the manga knows the ending well). But none of that appeared to be a possibility of ever being shown in a dub. It honestly ticks me off that Funimation could screw this up so bad.
Could someone that knows more about this please explain what's going on here? I really hope that there's at least another episode catching everyone's endings coming along next week, but from what I saw tonight, it seems as though Funimation just screwed up another good ending in dub. I hope this doesn't seem like a pointless topic or anything, I just find myself really disappointed and looking for answers as to why the ending was the way it was. Thank you to anyone that can provide answers.
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Tombow
post Sep 18 2011, 02:20 AM
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Welcome to the forum, IronBlood Alchemist. They have episode 64 "Journey's End" next week, and that will be the last episode of this series. I'm watching ep 63 on Adult Swim (repeat) as I write this, and looking forward to watching ep 64 next week. biggrin.gif

Our moderator will probably move this Q&A to appropriate thread later, but meantime, I'm going to add spoiler covers and the spoiler warning on your post. smile.gif


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IronBlood Alchem...
post Sep 18 2011, 02:38 AM
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QUOTE (Tombow @ Sep 18 2011, 02:20 AM) *
Welcome to the forum, IronBlood Alchemist. They have episode 64 "Journey's End" next week, and that will be the last episode of this series. I'm watching ep 63 on Adult Swim (repeat) as I write this, and looking forward to watching ep 64 next week. biggrin.gif

Our moderator will probably move this Q&A to appropriate thread later, but meantime, I'm going to add spoiler covers and the spoiler warning on your post. smile.gif


Thank you, for both the welcome and the answer. smile.gif Yeah, this is my first post, so I'm pretty new to the forums, so I do apologize for the spoiler thing. tongue.gif I'm glad to know that this isn't the end to it, it had me really offset.
Quick question: Is there any way to adjust the spoiler warning label thing? I don't want to remove it or anything, because I understand what the issue is, I just feel that there's some of it that you blocked out that wasn't necessary to cover, as I think some of it wasn't spoiler-worthy (but if I'm mistaken, please correct me or edit it yourself, I'm just expressing my opinion of my original post). lol But again, thank you very much for you help, I greatly appreciate it. smile.gif
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