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Is Rose Really That Weak?, May contain spoilers or Stingray
Popogeejo
post Sep 19 2006, 06:46 AM
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Now I'm sure alot of you know there is alot of Rose hate around becasue "she's weak" but is she really all that weak? Alot of people say she is too easily influenced by others but I'm having second thoughts.

First we have Cornello;
Rose lost her Brother/boyfriend (depending on what you read) and Cornello says he and his faith can bring him back to life. The whole City follows this faith and Cornello has shown some rather snazzy miracles including bringing several folk back from the grave (ok, we know this is a lie but the townsfolk don't.) Rose follows this faith and when Ed comes along and says it's all lies but she doesn't agree with him but sticks to her convictions. Seems reasonable to me. It's only when Cornello tries the old "Giant killer bird monster" trick that she changes her mind and believes Ed.

Then we have Dante;
Now I may be stupid but I'm almost certain a 400+ year old, highly skilled Alchemist/Chemist could over power and hypnotize most people and a Mute, frail girl should be even easier.
Rose is suffering from shock and/or Trauma after "some bad .... went down" and this person comes along offering support and kindness and hints of a romantic affection. Who wouldn't follow Dante in that kind of situation even without Dante using any of her extra trickery to lure Rose to her side?
Also, if you look at Roses eyes when Ed finds her they are glazed over which suggests she was drugged/hypnotized.

I don't think Rose is weak, I think she just came across to very unlikely people who have far more power/cunning than a regular bad guy.

So do you guys think Rose is truly weak or just a victim of unlikely circumstances?

Sorry if this a repeat topic but I don't recall this topic coming up before...


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nataliel
post Sep 19 2006, 07:43 AM
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I`m still thinking, Rose is weak.

Firstly, remember what she did, when Ed and Al were about to leave Lior. She asked, crying, why have the brothers taken away Lior`s people only hope... (or something like that). Then Ed asked, if she wants to live with Cornello`s lies. And Rose had nothing to answer. Kept crying and asked what to do. And this is after Cornello`s bird-monster attacked her!!! Actually, she faced Cornello`s lie. But she still cried for her "only hope".
I think, only weak people sit and wait for wonders, and don`t want to face the reality (maybe it`s because they`re afraid).

I think even all of Lior`s citizens are kinda weak and not modern... Just like medieval people maybe. They NEED a leader, they NEED some god to believe in. And if they loose one, they surely will find another (ah, holy mother... mad.gif ). Somehow they remind me a sheep herd...(ok, maybe its too rude). And what`s really sad - it`s that in our, real life there are lots of such people...

Now, dealing with Dante. Ok, i agree. Not every person can resist some 400+ year old, highly skilled Alchemist. Simply, i see oh so poor and weak and even hypnotized Rose with very strong characters all around her (sorry, but even Nina is much stronger). And this makes Rose even weaker in my eyes.

I think, Rose is not so pleasant or interesting character for some people, because WE, the spectators, like to observe strong characters much more then weak.

I`ve finished. cool.gif


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Popogeejo
post Sep 19 2006, 07:53 AM
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QUOTE(nataliel @ Sep 19 2006, 03:43 PM) [snapback]448359[/snapback]
I`m still thinking, Rose is weak.

Firstly, remember what she did, when Ed and Al were about to leave Lior. She asked, crying, why have the brothers taken away Lior`s people only hope... (or something like that). Then Ed asked, if she wants to live with Cornello`s lies. And Rose had nothing to answer. Kept crying and asked what to do. And this is after Cornello`s bird-monster attacked her!!! Actually, she faced Cornello`s lie. But she still cried for her "only hope".


If Ed hadn't come along everyone would have been happy for quite some time. Ed basically screwed up the whole region. Cornello was their only hope at that time and even after an attempted murder Rose still had some strands of Faith. There are millions of folks everywhere who would act the same way (Evangelicals anyone?) Just because she has misplaced Faith doesn't make Rose weak, it makes her stupid.

QUOTE
I think, only weak people sit and wait for wonders, and don`t want to face the reality (maybe it`s because they`re afraid).
Welcome to the wonderful world of Religion.

QUOTE
I think even all of Lior`s citizens are kinda weak and not modern... Just like medieval people maybe. They NEED a leader, they NEED some god to believe in. And if they loose one, they surely will find another (ah, holy mother... mad.gif ). Somehow they remind me a sheep herd...(ok, maybe its too rude). And what`s really sad - it`s that in our, real life there are lots of such people...


That doesn't make Rose weak, it's makes her Religious.

QUOTE
Now, dealing with Dante. Ok, i agree. Not every person can resist some 400+ year old, highly skilled Alchemist. Simply, i see oh so poor and weak and even hypnotized Rose with very strong characters all around her (sorry, but even Nina is much stronger). And this makes Rose even weaker in my eyes.
But these people are very uncommon. You can't really compare the likes of Roy, Riza and Ed to Rose.

QUOTE
I think, Rose is not so pleasant or interesting character for some people, because WE, the spectators, like to observe strong characters much more then weak.


Strong characters can be dull, ever watch Dragonball Z? I think most people like to watch interesting but flawed characters.


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nataliel
post Sep 19 2006, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE(popogeejo @ Sep 19 2006, 07:53 AM) [snapback]448360[/snapback]

If Ed hadn't come along everyone would have been happy for quite some time. Ed basicly screwed up the whole region. Cornello was their only hope at that time and even after an attempted murder Rose still had some strands of Faith. there are millions of folks everywhere who would act the same way. (Evangelicals anyone?) just becaus ehse has misplaced Faith doesn't make Rose weak, it makes her stupid.

But don`t you remember, what exactly Cornello said about what he wanted to do with his believing people? He wanted to use them for his own aims, to manipulate them!!!
Who knows, what could it be then!!! Besides, what does that mean "Cornello was their only hope"? Remind me, what had happened to Lior citizens, that they ended up living with one last hope? No, really, maybe i forgot something.
And, no! I don`t think Rose is stupid. It looks more like this: Rose passed some hard and pressing scholar(?) during her life, that was compelling her to be obedient and shy. Maybe it was here parents... maybe some teacher... dont know...

QUOTE(popogeejo @ Sep 19 2006, 07:53 AM) [snapback]448360[/snapback]

That doesn't make Rose weak, it's makes her Religous.

Just like i said. Only weak people sit and wait for wonders.

QUOTE(popogeejo @ Sep 19 2006, 07:53 AM) [snapback]448360[/snapback]

Strong characters can be dull, ever watch Dragonball Z? I think most people like to watch interesting but flawed characters.

DragonBall, ha! laugh.gif
When i say "strong", i don`t mean just "terrible heap of muscles", in other words, not physical stregth, but strength of personality, of mind... Of, course you`re right about flawed characters. And ok, let me put it this way: it`s interesting to observe characters that have strong sides and weak sides; OR character that is developing from a weak to a strong; OR (now talking about physical strength) weak, but smart... And there`re more examples...


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Fushi
post Sep 19 2006, 08:43 AM
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I don't think Rose is weak, I think she's just human, one of the really human characters in the series. I sympathized with her alot because I know a lot of people who would act the same way in similar situations.

Besides everything that Popogeejo said (which I agree with 100%), there was also another scene that showed us that Rose is not 'weak'. That being the scene with her and all the children in Liore and she stands up to the soldiers. The same people I mentioned before who would act like her in similar situations, would not have acted like her there, and would've crumbled.

But then at the moment Rose DOES show strength, she is (literally) raped of it and left with a baby whose future she must now take into consideration, along with her own. So now the baby is influencing some of her decisions. (I'm sure the decision to go along with Scar's ideas was helped made by the presence of her baby, who she wants a safe and free future for) Can you blame a woman for becoming 'weak' after she finds out that strength just leads her to pain?

I quite like Rose. On the appearance she seems uninteresting, but actually isn't once you analyze her


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Guest_Triple_Soul_Alchemist_*
post Sep 19 2006, 02:24 PM
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I agree 100 percent with what popogeejo says. I could go on and on as to my opnion, but my mind is in "bleh" mode at the moment.

I will say this, though. The fangirls need to calm down. Just because she dances with Ed in a SINGLE episode is no cause for alarm. I doubt she was in her right mind at the time, anyway.
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Colette
post Sep 19 2006, 02:26 PM
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I know I've ranted on this before, and I'm too lazy to find my rant, so I'll just say I agree.


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Molecular Alchem...
post Sep 19 2006, 02:43 PM
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I think I've ranted about this before too....and you know...upon further concideration....weak may be the wrong word. I think....stupid. Yes, she could see that everything was going to hell, and she didnt listen to Ed and leave..instead she chose to stay. And she mouthed off to some army ppl...yeah, so i guess she could have been strong then...but she def wasnt smart.

However, later in the series...when she is just a puppet on a string...i think that could be weak..if she was strong, she wouldnt let herself break like that and stay broken.

Yeah, theyre crappy arguements..but im not in the mood to fight and argue..and i have a class to prep for. tongue.gif


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Nepharski
post Sep 19 2006, 02:53 PM
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Is Rose weak? Perhaps, but then I raise the question: who isn't? Okay, so she gets center stage, but she's no weaker than plenty of other characters, not to mention people in real life. She loses her family, boyfriend, hope, voice, free will, and gains a baby plot device in return. All that's left is to dismember her and leave her in a cardboard box and we'll call it a day.

Whether she's weak or not it's the issue, the issue is what would you do in such and such a situation? Rose get's screwed over pretty bad in the game of life. Cut her some slack. Not everyone can be called to lead a horde of bandits, you know.


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CoffeAlchemist
post Sep 19 2006, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE(Nepharski @ Sep 19 2006, 02:53 PM) [snapback]448449[/snapback]
Whether she's weak or not it's the issue, the issue is what would you do in such and such a situation? Rose get's screwed over pretty bad in the game of life. Cut her some slack. Not everyone can be called to lead a horde of bandits, you know.

-quicknod-
True.
I wouldn't call her weak, she's just a human, someone we can relate to.
And, she was very brave when she was confronted at Lior when those officers told her to leave.

huh.gif

I still can't believe she got raped..


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nataliel
post Sep 20 2006, 02:37 AM
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Nepharski, i agree - i`ve removed it.

Umm.. as so much people`re protecting Rose, i feel i must explain myself some more.
Maybe the reason, that Rose looks weak, is that she`s much closer to real person, then other characters that surround her: they (Ed, Al, Roy, Homunculus, Dante, Hohenheim, Winry etc....) have that special "anime-strength".
Try to put some real simple girl near Incredibles!
I say, the background of "anime superheroes" makes Rose weak.

And also, i think, i was influenced mostly by the last episodes. After that incident in Lior Rose DID showed some strength. I hoped she will keep doing so till the very end. But in the end she was "hypnotised" and didn`t show any desire to protect her baby...
(just put umm... Riza into her place! I`m sure, she would protect her baby even in "hypnotized mode"!)


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Nepharski
post Sep 20 2006, 03:10 AM
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QUOTE(nataliel @ Sep 20 2006, 02:37 AM) [snapback]448699[/snapback]

Nepharski, i agree - i`ve removed it.

Much obliged, Nataliel.

I've already said my peice. I've nothing to add.


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Lust is dead. Finished. Kaput. Joined the Choir Invisible. Roy Mustang incinerated her repeatedly until her Philosopher's Stone dried up and dissolved into nothingness ("Mu" for you Japanese cultural enthusiasts). And she will remain killed off, written out of the plot. Greed was reincarnated because Father saved his Philosopher's Stone and had a guinea pig on hand. Lust is gone. Stop trying to play God with the plot line and bring her back at every possibly junction.
In the event that Hiromu Arakawa can skillfully maneuver around this narrative plot hole, I will eat my words with a pinch of salt.
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Chiyo
post Sep 20 2006, 07:33 AM
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I think what was just said is right...I am one who complains Rose is weak but I realise its compairing her to other characters in that anime and they are generally strong. More than weak she is a bit oblivious to how self centered and evil people can be. Being too trusting is her weakness, it just gets her into more trouble than most.


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nataliel
post Sep 21 2006, 01:25 PM
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Chiyo, right! right! cool.gif
Actually, i kinda like Rose. So, i hope there will be new FMA season, and Rose will get wiser and stronger there!!! I want her story continue. And how will be her grown up child!


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SilverSnow
post May 21 2007, 07:23 PM
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This thread may be ancient but whatever I'm not starting a new one when there's already one here.

So is rose weak? Hell yes.
why? look it is YOU heard me YOU! who determines the outcome of your life ok? and her being a good person/character have 0 to do with being strong.



She's weak because
-What kind of dumb*** do you need to be to belive some creepy priest can bring the dead back just like that without even getting anything in return because they're sooo good and they're such saints??

-If you follow a bunch of military guys when you're alone and you're a young girl you musn't be very smart.

-She tried to save other kids from getting raped or something, yes that's very nice but haven't you ever heard of what a PLAN is?

-She cries sooo much - _ - it's ok to cry but errr.... *looks at 400 ton pile of tissues*

-Everyone here knows this, in fact it's the first thing myparents told me : NEVER TRUST STRANGERS.

-Another thing that is kind of like the last thing trust no one.

-I agree it's hard to resist a 400 year olf alchemist but then why doesn't she start looking out for herself and use that little thing in her head called brain and say, oh until today I have not thought about how much weaker (physically) I am than alchemists, it's not safe because there's many things I don't know and overall faces we see hearts we don't, so I think I'll get far away from them for a while then plan if I want to know how and who they are,

-Her life wasn't going anywhere, it's isn't going anywhere and probably it won't be going anywhere, what does she do all days? doesn't she have plans for her life? like I need to do something, I dunno maybe she can start a donations for the poor center or she can learn to do something or go to school or learn the way to treat with people, what kind is good, what kind is bad etc.

-All her reactions are stupid, very naive. nice has nothing to do with stupid.


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