HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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The Ethics of doujinshi (and other fan derived works), should doujinshi artists profit from other's creativity?
Fushi
post Sep 7 2007, 05:27 PM
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...........frick I need more doujinshii.

Like, I need to buy some off the interwebs.

The sharing of a few scans from a wonderfully drawn and adorable neko!Roy and Neko!Hughes doujin made me realize this....boohoo, I wanna have my own doujinshi I to show off and scan and gawk at whenever I want. :'< Must-waste-money-on-smexy-fanart...

Why did Animethon only have to have Ouran doujinshi, god damnit.



Anyways.


I is home for the weekend.

Home all alone tho. Brother still in the hospital in the city and dad there too.

Need to talk to 'auntie' to take me to the city tomorrow to visit them and shop for posters to personalize my room more. The Nightmare before Christmas poster and little FMA pin up are nice an dall but Fushi wants some wall scrolls and .....


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Little Washu
post Sep 7 2007, 06:34 PM
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I never read any Doujinshi .__. *shot*

Personally, I think that only the original artists should draw their manga. *shot again*


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Fushi
post Sep 7 2007, 07:09 PM
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Then don't ever draw another piece of fanart again :3


Seriously, doujinshii is just fanart and fanfiction rolled into one. if you have that view about doujin then don't ever bother drawing fanart or writing fanfiction ever again. Cause you're basically at the same time saying "only the original artists should draw their characters. Only the original artists should write their stories" >_>


Plus, doujinshi is also a term used for original mangas as well. Self published ones.


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Little Washu
post Sep 7 2007, 07:16 PM
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Hm, I never looked at it that way. But I mean, selling it? People write fanfics and draw fanart for fun. But people sell Doujinshi. That'd be like me taking a song by an artist, changing the words a bit and singing myself, then selling it. I've heard a lot of clueless fans say; "But I saw it in the manga!" when it was Doujinshi that they read.


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Naivete
post Sep 7 2007, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE
That'd be like me taking a song by an artist, changing the words a bit and singing myself, then selling it.

Wrong. They make up their own storyline. They also have their own style, which is what makes some doujinshi look so attractive.


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Little Washu
post Sep 7 2007, 07:25 PM
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What I meant was, it's- it's- hard to explain is what.Gah! I sound like a rambling idiot. I must gather my thoughts .__.

.......

Okay then, it's stealing. If I take Pokemon, draw it Shoujo style and call it 'The Happy-yellow-mouse Chronicles' and sell it, the artist could sew. Because it's not mine. Unless, of course, it may be okay as long as there is a VERY CLEAR Disclaimer.


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Fushi
post Sep 7 2007, 07:25 PM
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QUOTE(Little Washu @ Sep 7 2007, 08:16 PM) *
Hm, I never looked at it that way. But I mean, selling it? People write fanfics and draw fanart for fun. But people sell Doujinshi. That'd be like me taking a song by an artist, changing the words a bit and singing myself, then selling it. I've heard a lot of clueless fans say; "But I saw it in the manga!" when it was Doujinshi that they read.

They sell it for mere pennies. They basically just sell it for enough to pay for the paper and ink. No real profit is made at all.

Which is why it's allowed and doujin artists aren't being sued for copyright infringement.


I don't know if this is the full truth, but it's what I suspect. Doujin has been around long before the internet. So, there was a time when you couldn't just scan your work and show it to people. You had to show them to people on direct paper. You'd want as many people as possible to see it, so you'd make a lot of copies. Now that can be really costly, what with paper cost and copy cost. Therefore, just to get your art out there and to pay for the expenses it took the make the books, you'd charge a little bit. Despite the internet making all that easier, printed doujinshi is a bit of a tradition, therefore it's still popular.
Or at least that's what I think.


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Little Washu
post Sep 7 2007, 07:54 PM
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My only point was that as hard as they work on their work, it still is only their dream, and never going to happen. And the original is always best. At least, that's what I've been taught around here.

-My computer is doing it again! Turning slow, and then speeding up again. Then freezing, and then exiting the window, and then restoring it. And saying (Not Responding) on top. Like it will soon, so I'd better leave.


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Popogeejo
post Sep 7 2007, 08:00 PM
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QUOTE(baKa-neKoh @ Sep 8 2007, 03:20 AM) *
QUOTE
That'd be like me taking a song by an artist, changing the words a bit and singing myself, then selling it.

Wrong. They make up their own storyline. They also have their own style, which is what makes some doujinshi look so attractive.

I could post several doujin that look identical to the source material...
Either way doujinshi would never survive US/European copyright laws.
I doin't give a hoot though, as long as stuff like "Azumanaga: floating/drifting classroom" still come out I'll be happy. It's funny to see characters thrown into stories that go dramatically against the original story style/tone.


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Fushi
post Sep 7 2007, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE(Little Washu @ Sep 7 2007, 08:54 PM) *
My only point was that as hard as they work on their work, it still is only their dream, and never going to happen. And the original is always best. At least, that's what I've been taught around here.

And in trying to make your point, you missed the point of doujin.

NO doujin-ka is trying to say this is what is going to happen in the series. Remember how you said fanart and fanfiction is done for fun? SAME THING FOR DOUJINSHII. It's all for FUN (and sometimes arousal *cough*) and to try and get their art a little more well known. And we, the people who read doujin, also do so for fun.

Once again, you missed the entire point.


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Popogeejo
post Sep 7 2007, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE(Fushigi Rockna @ Sep 8 2007, 04:03 AM) *
It's all for FUN (and sometimes arousal *cough*)

Also profit.
Alot of doujins just take established characters, stick 'em in a new plot/cheap porno and sell 'em without much creative input.
While their are a good number that do do it for fun and such there are a larger number doing it with profit as the main motive.

You guys may want to stick this in Debate district though. It's almost interesting.


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Naivete
post Sep 7 2007, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE
Also profit.

I also recall (it was somewhere in the BBI thread) that not many doujin makers get sued for copyright infringement, even if they do sell and profit, because it (possibly) boosts the original anime/manga's sales. Hmm... double profit. EVERYONE WINS!


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Fushi
post Sep 7 2007, 09:24 PM
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QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Sep 7 2007, 09:15 PM) *
QUOTE(Fushigi Rockna @ Sep 8 2007, 04:03 AM) *
It's all for FUN (and sometimes arousal *cough*)

Also profit.

As I said earlier to Washu, doujin-ka make VERY little money from their doujinshii. The money they get from selling the doujin is basically just enough to pay for paper and copying. Not enough money is made from doing doujinshii - no real profit is made. That's why they don't get sued for copyright infringement. And like neKoh said, it's free publicity.


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Toby-Chan
post Sep 7 2007, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE
That'd be like me taking a song by an artist, changing the words a bit and singing myself, then selling it.


More like taking a song by a famous artist and singing it in a subway for spare change.


Speaking of which; I'm still short on tuition, thus planning on becoming an artistic prostitute and doing comissions. Anybody have requests? Characters of theirs they want drawn, portraits, interpetive dance?


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Fushi
post Sep 7 2007, 09:59 PM
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QUOTE(Toby-Chan @ Sep 7 2007, 10:43 PM) *
Speaking of which; I'm still short on tuition, thus planning on becoming an artistic prostitute and doing comissions. Anybody have requests? Characters of theirs they want drawn, portraits, interpetive dance?

....*raises hand* I wouldn't mind seeing my Cathy done in a style other than my own...


Who split the thread up? Watch as the debate dies and this thread falls into the abyss of the debate forum....


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