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Episode 20: Father Before The Grave - Content Discussion Thread, Warning! May contain spoilers for the first 20 episodes!!
Animeoldtimer
post Aug 17 2009, 01:48 PM
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I hope at least they discuss Al's concerns about his body rotting and how he's connected with Ed.


Overall, I liked this episode, missed the hair scene, but liked the way the grave scene was portrayed.


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penguintruth
post Aug 17 2009, 08:05 PM
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Having just seen episode 20 with subtitles, I have a few thoughts to share on it.

It would have been a little richer if more of those little moments between Hohenheim and Edward were included. Hohenheim just seems like a mysterious douchebag in this episode. In the manga he comes off as being more weird and removed, muttering to himself and making observations on things while Edward is trying to express his anger towards him. Hohenheim is supposed to appear sort of flakey. Here, he's just a d***.

I thought what they were going for with Hohenheim's first apperance is, they presented you little hints about him, how he abandoned his family and his wife died soon after, obviously intending the reader to hate him, but when you finally meet him, it's hard to be angry because he acts so weird. So, you become more unnerved than upset at the character. I guess that was just my point of view.

The scene at the "grave" of the "thing" just didn't feel as important as it did in the manga. It's funny, though, that if I didn't read the manga, I'd probably have thought this scene was just a big "screw you" to the first series, since Pinako even mentions that the bones are that of a man.

I found myself rolling my eyes with the scene with Winry upset and the scene at the end with Alphonse renewing his vow to get their bodies back. Is it just me, or do they do that a lot? I thought they decided after Gracia talked to them that they'd continue? I mean, they don't have to actually SAY they're going to continue. It feels like a lot of unnecessary dialogue, since we can see for ourselves that they're continuing, and the characters themselves can. Making these big, grand vows aloud just comes off as being a little corny.

At least they cut down some of the overexplaining volume 11 did. Sometimes a few words are better than many of them.

(That damn bistro music again!)


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Jen_Elric
post Aug 17 2009, 08:08 PM
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The episode was pretty good. Not great, but good.

I wish they kept the Hair style scene and Other funny scenes between Ed and Hohenhiem. Ihn the manga, it seemed like they had more of a bond, despite the fact that Ed hates him.
I did like how Hohenhiem said "He acts like I did when I was younger", and also liked how Bones kept the Scene where Hohenhiem almost touches Ed's head when Ed was "sleeping".
They protrayed Hohenhiem indifferent and kinda cold. He didn't even smile!
The grave scene was the best scene in the whole episode! I'll always love Ed's laugh.
The Ling/Ranfan scene was cute! Ed:"What are YOU doing here?!" Ling:"We're having a meal! happy.gif". lol
ugh, what's with the italian restaurant music during a dramatic scene. I was trying not to laugh, cuz the music was soo ridiculous!!
So much talking....this episode should have been two episodes.
LOVED THE EDWIN SCENE!!! *heart*

The next episode looks really good! Too bad we hafta wait 2 weeks...


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FailToImpress
post Aug 18 2009, 01:44 AM
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I read the corresponding manga chapters SO long ago that I can't remember what's been included and what hasn't been included.

I laughed at the very end though, everything's all dramatic then Winry says "has his back always been so big?" or something like that. I know what it means, but in literal terms, it just seemed funny.
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Forsaken Love
post Aug 18 2009, 04:19 AM
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agree, there wasn't any mention about the mind body and soul, and how Al's brain must still be working and alive somewhere to store the new memories he was experiancing in the armour, at least i can't remember there been, a lot of detail of tthat conversation was cut out regardless, also hoho humor where did it go! I think thats a bit of mistake because that has led to his character been portrayed differntly, without the manga i certainly wouldnt think of him as quirky at this point, he seems a bit harsher and stiffer. Glad they kept ran-fan and ling eating scene XD They missed an edwin scene where winry grabs ed's shoulders on the way to the hotel room, wasn't happy ¬_¬ ed and al's conv on the stairs actually made me shed a tear XD that made me sad in the manga too, (i allways noticed that arakawa drew the tear-light on al's armour did everyone else forget? XD) The thing dig scene did seem less impacting then its manga counterpart but it was still good and i liked ed's laugh and im glad they still had him throwing up XD On both sub and RAW i watched it cut just on the part where winry looks at ed's back gaaaaaaah so i can't really give my verdict on that part xD i hope they kept at least some edwin in, oh i loved ed blushing when talkin about winry marrying one of them as kids XD hahaha, oh and i liked the little detail about what ed and al making was male, although the manga heavily hinted it anyway

nuuuuuu no brotherhood next week! *cry*


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Womie
post Aug 18 2009, 05:03 AM
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QUOTE
nuuuuuu no brotherhood next week! *cry*


Well .. Does anyone know why? :c


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Zii
post Aug 18 2009, 05:36 AM
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QUOTE (Womie @ Aug 18 2009, 09:33 PM) *
Well .. Does anyone know why? :c

Sport. >C
It might be the athletics thing that's on at the moment.

ETA: I haven't seen the subs for this ep yet, I wait for Madman to do it on Fridays (goodie two-shoes doesn't download her subs)... so I had no idea they butchered even an important plot point such as where the heck Al's body is, the link and etc.
I think it's time for me to resolve that all this series is good for is pretty pictures. xD
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Kasumisty
post Aug 18 2009, 05:37 AM
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QUOTE (Womie @ Aug 18 2009, 02:03 PM) *
QUOTE
nuuuuuu no brotherhood next week! *cry*


Well .. Does anyone know why? :c



Some World Championships are going to be broadcasted then


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Womie
post Aug 18 2009, 05:43 AM
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QUOTE (Kasumisty @ Aug 18 2009, 06:37 AM) *
QUOTE (Womie @ Aug 18 2009, 02:03 PM) *
QUOTE
nuuuuuu no brotherhood next week! *cry*


Well .. Does anyone know why? :c



Some World Championships are going to be broadcasted then


Ah, thank you very much happy.gif


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Broken Chouchou
post Aug 18 2009, 05:52 AM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Aug 17 2009, 08:05 PM) *
Hohenheim just seems like a mysterious douchebag in this episode.


Pretty much describes my impression of him perfectly.

Seems I'm the only one who was really satisfied with his voice though. Suited the 'mysterious douchiness' just perfectly. And I was so relieved he didn't have Father's voice (but do they have the same VA, anyone know?), that would have been awful.

What would have been nice though, would be if Father would've been sharing Hohenheim's current voice, so that "Oh-sh*t-they're-the-same-guy!!" feeling would've been fully preserved. I mean, it's still there, to a certain point, but their similiarity is way less obvious now. You get that they in fact aren't the same person, new to the franchise or not.

(Duhh.. don't know if I'm being coherent or not. Definitely don't feel like it. Must be all the excessive beating of head into various things/objects/surfaces...)

Anyway, I overall enjoyed this episode. People say it feels bleak compared to last weeks episode. I don't get that. Last episode emphasized on action, while this was a more mellow episode dealing with plot developement and such. You need a break from the heat once in a while to be able to appreciate it. I don't feel that rating a certain episode based on the ammount of tension and suspense featured is really fair.

Missed the hair-braiding scene and I agree that Hohenheim gave somewhat of a too serious impression. Where's the old screwball we know and (have learned to) adore?
But it didn't bother me that much.

The shovel scene was handled allright. Not great, I did feel that something was lacking. But then again, I never felt that scene was too powerful in the manga either. I mean, yes, he is digging up the thing he believes to be the remains of his dead mother. But the thing is, I never managed to get my head around what the heck it was that Ed discovered that made him go "WAHAHAHA!! The answer was right here from the beginning!" and convinced him that Al could get back to normal.

Same goes for when he explained what he found out to Al on the stairway. It felt more understandable here (in the manga they completely lost me at this point), even if they didn't really explain the "armor-not-being-able-to-store-memories-hence-Al's-body-is-still-around" - thing.


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Chiyo
post Aug 18 2009, 06:42 AM
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QUOTE (FailToImpress @ Aug 18 2009, 09:44 AM) *
I laughed at the very end though, everything's all dramatic then Winry says "has his back always been so big?" or something like that. I know what it means, but in literal terms, it just seemed funny.


It did when they made that scene so dramatic, it was the music that did it I think.

I forgot to mention the "we're eating" bit, the exact picture it was in the manga which I'm glad they kept to lighten things up a little bit.


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Nzm
post Aug 18 2009, 06:52 AM
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Not bad EP, but there were some better ones.

The storyline was quite following the manga (execept of the philosophical part about mind and soul as well as some Ed/Hohenheim humour). The animation did good work, especially in the grave digging scene. Music was quite repetitive but I loved that tremolo melody in Ed's nightmare scene (I think that it was taken from the original anime but not sure).

BTW. I lol'd when they've shown wine bottles with 'BONES' written on them.

Also, why the hell would they show stupid championship instead of FMA?

PS. Next episodes are going to be awesome.
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edxwinryfan
post Aug 18 2009, 08:19 AM
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QUOTE (FailToImpress @ Aug 18 2009, 04:44 AM) *
I read the corresponding manga chapters SO long ago that I can't remember what's been included and what hasn't been included.

I laughed at the very end though, everything's all dramatic then Winry says "has his back always been so big?" or something like that. I know what it means, but in literal terms, it just seemed funny.


Yeah I think that she should have actually said "Have his shoulders always been that broad?"
Or something like that.
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RoyxRizaFan
post Aug 18 2009, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE (penguintruth @ Aug 17 2009, 11:05 PM) *
It would have been a little richer if more of those little moments between Hohenheim and Edward were included. Hohenheim just seems like a mysterious douchebag in this episode. In the manga he comes off as being more weird and removed, muttering to himself and making observations on things while Edward is trying to express his anger towards him. Hohenheim is supposed to appear sort of flakey. Here, he's just a d***.

I thought what they were going for with Hohenheim's first apperance is, they presented you little hints about him, how he abandoned his family and his wife died soon after, obviously intending the reader to hate him, but when you finally meet him, it's hard to be angry because he acts so weird. So, you become more unnerved than upset at the character. I guess that was just my point of view.


*nods*

I love manga Hoho simply because he is like that - mysterious, yet funny and quirky in a weird way. He's such an original character, and I felt like his scenes were completely botched. All the humor was drained out of it, making him seem the same as the anime1 Hoho, who was really serious and could be very annoying at parts...if you know what I mean. Just not a loveable character! So they've set the entire mood wrong for him, because is there's anyone just watching Brotherhood with no past FMA knowledge, they're hating Hoho for being such a jerk to come, show no emotions at his dead wife's grave, say like nothing to his son, and then ditch again after making Pinako cook for him.

And his voice annoys me.

That Italian bistro music was so bad I wanted to cry. So I guess they still managed to get me on the verge of tears, though it wasn't because of all the dramatic angst.

I thought they were going to cut Izumi crying. I'm happy they kept it, because at that point I was like, "cut anything else, and you're going down!"

Al's speech didn't bother me. I like how he says things like that now and then, because it really shows how different he is than the more passive (still loveable) Al from the first anime.

///rant done///


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penguintruth
post Aug 18 2009, 01:34 PM
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Well, even the first series got Hohenheim's "removed" nature down, with him muttering about things now and then. Here, they had that extra step of flakiness already in the manga, but they didn't use it. Sometimes Bones seems to have trouble choosing what to put in. Granted, it's only a 20 something minute episode, but it's not like they can't stretch out the material. The manga's 98 chapters and it's still going.


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