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Ep. 51: Was Ed Selfish?
~FMAgurl~
post Apr 1 2005, 09:25 PM
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Wow, you people write really long posts(I don't write posts more than 10 lines long) biggrin.gif Anyways, you guys(or girls) made really good points! I never even thought of Ed being selfish, but I could see why you would think so now. I still think Ed was completely selfless because he sacraficed his completed human budy just to get Al's back.

@The General P.:
-your sig is umm....unique! No one else in this forum has one like it lol
-you said there was no equivalent exchange in the movie...have you seen the movie?!?!? Or were you just talking about the series?


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xyzknight
post Apr 1 2005, 09:53 PM
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Umm...Perhaps he was talking about the trailers out for the movie? I really don't have any idea sleep.gif

And for the other question...I think what Ed did was mature because he just wanted to make his promise come true and make Al live like he normally would. It was selfish,though, because (I think) he wanted to prove to himself he was a good big brother to Al and he did the right things for him.

I'm just sorry Al forgot all of what happened in the last five (or was it four?) years,that would've been great if he remembered.
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Fullmetal Fangir...
post Apr 1 2005, 10:42 PM
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I reckon he was really selfish in the first eps.

In Lior, i think it was Lior anyway, he was talking to the priest. He was telling him to hand over the (fake) pholosiphers [cant spell XD] stone. He was willing to take it away from all the people of Lior and take away their happyness just for himself...thats when Rose comes in right? But i think he was really selfish, thinking of himeself and not the people of Lior


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Edo-mame
post Apr 2 2005, 04:31 AM
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*Will be chalked full of spoilers so proceed with caution*





From the second that Edo decided to transmute his mother he was selfish. He thought, no assumed, that his mother would be happy to come back and live together with him and Al but really, he just couldn't accept the concept of death and being without his mother whom he loved very much. He even proposed human transmutation when he learned that Winry's parents had died in the Ishbal war. What's more is that Al was dragged into the whole thing because of his trusting and obedient nature and Edo never really asked how Al felt about the whole thing. So naturally, after the human transmutation disaster Edo is overcome with guilt and blames himself entirely for what happened to Al. However, I think that transmuting Al's soul was NOT an act of selfishness, but was more like an act of impulse. Even though Al was Edo's only living family and he feels immense guilt for the incident (making him very selfish if he were to try to correct his mistake out of guilt) those were not the reasons why he transmuted his soul but because of the bond he shared with Al. At the time he probably didn't have the time (or reasoning for his age) to decided if the transmutation would be a good thing since he just thought to get Al back before it was too late, not to mention the shock of failure and loss of his leg most likely made him very desparate and clouded any judgement. As long as he saw the possibility of protecting or saving Al from being trapped in the gate, he instinctly thought that it would be a good thing. And then with the jouney to seek out the Philospher's stone and obtain it even through force it is clear that Edo is making some very selfish decisions. Also, the sole purpose that Edo seeks the stone is to make Al normal again because he blames himself for everything. I wouldn't say that trying to make Al normal again is exactly that selfish but it still is to an extent.

Even so, despite all the selfishness Edo has shown from the very first episode to the last, I believe that Edo sacrificing himself to get Al back was not a selfish act, though he wasn't being that selfless either. Edo and Al have been journeying together for about 4 years; depending on each other, living for each other, eduring hardships for each other and are always by each other's side. How do you think their relationship is? They say that love is blind(brotherly love too) and I believe that Edo demonstrates this when he transmuted Al. Just like the first time, Edo does this thinking that it's in the best interest of Al except now, the bond between the two is way stronger and I think Edo would probably still have sacrificed himself if he had been given more time to think about it or even if he was told by someone that what he is doing is selfish and for him only. Thats what I love about FMA though, and I have to admit its really moving to see their relationship with each other. Now I understand why Armstrong is always crying during the scenes with the brothers. I love you Edo and Al!

One last thing, Edo is selfish/thinks selfishly (a little bit or a lot) but he is only human so you can't really blame him for it.


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Fullmetal Fangir...
post Apr 2 2005, 04:55 AM
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Edo...I hate him...thast my opinion anyway...selfish little shrimp thing...


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Ravashi
post Apr 2 2005, 04:07 PM
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**spoilers**




It is really nice if you look at it...I mean they made a promise and Ed and Al both fullfilled it...
I mean Al got Ed his body back and Ed got Al back...
Leaving the little side affects aside...

In a way they both gained a lot though...I mean they both are alive right...and in human bodies...

I don't think Ed his act was selffish, because at the moment (at least that what I thought) the only thing he thought about was his brother to be happy...
After reading I now think it was also partly selffish...but all in all very sad...
Especially when Winry? I thought it was her anyway....said "Also, is Edward really gone?" That really made me cry...I thought he was dead...*almost starts crying again* I do that almost every day since I watched it...and now I watched for like 4 times...in 4 days...The first time it was almost midnight when it ended...I was sick the next day...really...my stomage felt funny all day long...I even almost cried during the exam I had that day, which didn't go well because of me feeling sick...

Still don't know my grade...it was last thuesday I saw them...Watching 30 though 51 on one day...I'm really weird...
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Edo-mame
post Apr 2 2005, 10:37 PM
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Fullmetal Fangirl: You hate Edo but he's in your avatar?

Yea, episode 51 was really sad, even till the end when we find out [spoiler] Edo didn't die but went to "our world"[/spoiler]. And it was actually Pinako who asked "Ed is really gone isn't he". When she said that I began to form tears and then she just had to go and say that Al is reading alchemy books again as if to not forget Edo. The thought of Edo gone and Al trying to not forget about him is too sad. But the part I thought was most sad was when Hohenheim told Edo [spoiler] that the time the two spent together; the people they've met, the experiences and pain the two shared was what was sacrificed to transmute Al[/spoiler]. Four years time that they spent together wiped away just like that(for Al anyway). And now they both live each day trying to find one another. If they really don't (in the movie) then that would suck so bad and I would start raining like Roy.


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Ravashi
post Apr 2 2005, 11:44 PM
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No I meant before that...Winry litarly says "Also, is Edward really gone?" well she says it narrorating (sp?) and then Pinako and other walk to them and asks it to Izumi and Sig

And that what Honenheim said...I didn't really realise what he meant the first time I watched...
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~FMAgurl~
post Apr 3 2005, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE(Fullmetal Fangirl @ Apr 2 2005, 04:55 AM)
Edo...I hate him...thast my opinion anyway...selfish little shrimp thing...
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*Stares at screen* Did I read properly?You hate Ed?! mellow.gif Blasphemy!!


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ScarredSweethear...
post Apr 3 2005, 06:48 PM
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What Ed did could be thought of as selfish. But, remember, he was just a kid. And Al losing his body isn't entirely Eds fault. Al knew that it was wrong, but he did it anyway. If Al had had a little more backbone back then, things would have turned out way differently.
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Edo-mame
post Apr 4 2005, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE(ScarredSweetheart @ Apr 3 2005, 07:48 PM)
What Ed did could be thought of as selfish. But, remember, he was just a kid.  And Al losing his body isn't entirely Eds fault. Al knew that it was wrong, but he did it anyway. If Al had had a little more backbone back then, things would have turned out way differently.
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That's also what Al says to Edo when he blames himself. Other than not refusing to go along with the transmutation, I think a small part of him really wanted to go through with it and really hoped that it would work.


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Duo Himura
post Apr 5 2005, 04:47 PM
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QUOTE(fullmetal_gradstudent @ Apr 1 2005, 10:44 PM)
Hmm, after reading some of these posts, I think I want to rephrase my question a little.  I realize Ed wasn't only thinking of himself when he performed his final transmutation (obviously!), but I still feel like it was a rash decision that didn't do justice to the trajectory Ed's character development took throughout the show.  So, my new question is, did Ed make the most mature/best decision?
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While I agree that you're correct in saying that he rushed into the descision, I also think he wasn't sure how much time he had before Al was "gone." Seeing as the other side of the gate opens to our world, its kinda weird to think about crossing the gate (as in with Al's body and Ed's limbs) as I did before knowing that, I was thinking prior to that that the gate opened to the afterlife or something. Anyway, since Ed himself didn't know what would happen to Al since Al consumed all of the Philosopher's Stone ressurecting Ed and restoring his limbs, Ed also didn't know how long he had before his brother would be beyond revival, if it was possible for that to occur. Its kinda weird because this was the only time there's been a soul bound to the Philosopher's stone as far as we know, so it'd probably be beyond even what Dante and Hohenheim knew necessarily, though they could probably guess.

So, my thought is that Ed just didn't want to risk being too late to help Al, and that's why he kind of rushed into trying to revive him.

... Uh... seems I kinda missed the second page of this, and I don't see a delete post button... Please disregard this if it's already been stated. Sorry about that.


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angelchan
post Apr 8 2005, 07:49 PM
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I think when Ed was ten, binding Al to the armor followed along the same reasoning as reviving thier mother; a quick solution for a frightened child.

In the final episode though, it seems in restoring Al, Ed was thinking like a brother. That he needed to fix things, because he didn't think Al should've died because of him. He knows there will be consequences this time, but he's willing to risk it; you can tell because of how calm he looks when he performs that last transmutation.

Which I think shows a level of maturity most 16 year olds don't have wink.gif

That's just how I've always thought of it anyways ^^; I do see where you're coming from questioning Ed's maturity though.


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post Apr 9 2005, 10:26 PM
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QUOTE(Edo-mame @ Apr 2 2005, 10:37 PM)
Fullmetal Fangirl: You hate Edo but he's in your avatar?

Yea, episode 51 was really sad, even till the end when we find out [spoiler] Edo didn't die but went to "our world"[/spoiler]. And it was actually Pinako who asked "Ed is really gone isn't he". When she said that I began to form tears and then she just had to go and say that Al is reading alchemy books again as if to not forget Edo. The thought of Edo gone and Al trying to not forget about him is too sad. But the part I thought was most sad was when Hohenheim told Edo [spoiler] that the time the two spent together; the people they've met, the experiences and pain the two shared was what was sacrificed to transmute Al[/spoiler]. Four years time that they spent together wiped away just like that(for Al anyway). And now they both live each day trying to find one another. If they really don't (in the movie) then that would suck so bad and I would start raining like Roy.
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So according to you Ed did not die, but wen to the other side of the gate to this alternate world where Dante banished his father.

Is that world on the other side of the gate also the world where the Monoculus where banished to.
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Edo-mame
post Apr 10 2005, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE(Inuyasha7271 @ Apr 9 2005, 11:26 PM)
So according to you Ed did not die, but wen to the other side of the gate to this alternate world where Dante banished his father.

Is that world on the other side of the gate also the world where the Monoculus where banished to.
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Really, what are you trying to say? Why is it according to me? I didn't make it up... thats how it actually happened. Did you not finish the anime? And to answer your question, the Homunculus weren't banished. Others went to the gate, one through the gate and the rest just died/disappeared. The world on the other side of the gate that Hohenheim and Edo are at is actually supposed to be [spoiler] an alternate universe which the producers say is "our" world except for the year is 1921, post WWI time.[/spoiler] Whether or not any Homunculus went through to the alternate world is yet to be announced but will probably be in the movie(actually I'm pretty sure one of the Homunculus is there already).


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