HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Episode 13: Beasts Of Dublith - Content Discussion Thread, Warning, Spoilers for contents of ep 1 through ep 13
Forsaken Love
post Jun 30 2009, 12:29 AM
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yeah, i read this whole section (all of vol 7 and end of vol 6) last night and this morning, just to recap on all the stuff that had been missed. Incrediably dissopointing, this epsiode was truly terrible. Having said that, a friend of mine whos just watching brotherhood and as of yet is not reading the manga said to me on msn 'omg that was so EPIC!' i was like O_o really? I thought it was beyond terrible, you understood it? At least its apprently not putting off newcomers to the series thats one good thing...i guess. This series is kinda reminding me of Harry Potter movies right now, the books=pure awesomeness the films=how the heck can you understand and enjoy when so much plot and all humor is missed out? *sigh* I don't have much hope for next week considering how this episode went, but who knows maybe it will make it seem a little bit better.


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BluePhoenix
post Jun 30 2009, 01:20 AM
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I definitely know what you mean, especially the whole Harry Potter comment. When things get adapted to screen, I always worry about character development, because that is usually what suffers the most, because I'm sure people saw that and thought Greed was just an evil character, when he isn't really.
@ Forsaken Love: I'm curious as to what your friend said about Greed though! And if he/she understood the whole thing.

Also, I can't believe they left out the Southern headquarters thing!! How are they going to explain the Fuhrer's and Armstrong's appearance there now? I'm sure they'll come up with something like "Armstrong told me all about your teacher, and to be teacher to someone as talented as you, they must be a great alchemist" and then say that they wanted to recruit her. Or they could have the Fuhrer say that they "learned of illegal activities" and then add to Greed later while they are fighting in the sewers that "Father wanted me to make sure that you were finally brought back home" or something. Cheap cover up basically for leaving out that Southern headquarters visit for his evaluation.

And they left out the whole "marry my granddaughter" thing that Grumman says to Roy! I always thought that apart from being Royai of course, that Grumman was using a code when he said that she would make a great Fuhrer's wife one day to let Roy know that there was something hidden in the "Queen's" piece, if you know what I mean.

Edit: and I just realized that when Izumi and Ed are both waving their hands around to describe Truth, both of Ed's arms are flesh colored....


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Forsaken Love
post Jun 30 2009, 02:31 AM
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@bluephoenix yeah i was really surprised to her reaction. She said she really liked Greed and thought he was a cool character O_o and she seemed to understand it... yeah well she said she really liked the episode and as i said, said to me 'omg! that was so epic!' I'm still trying to pursuade her to read the manga XD so she can understand that in comparision the manga is MUCH better. Greed seems very 2 dimensional to me in that episode, but we all have read the manga here practically, so we know what its meant to be like, people who havnt read the manga I guess would view it differently.

And yep I was really upset they missed those bits out, and my favourite joke of the section, Greed consoling Al for his 'loss' XD haha, unfortunatly they couldn't do that anyway scrapping Ed's vistit to HQ _ Yeah come to think of it they were both fleash coloured, but in fairness to them i THINK they are in the manga too, but I could be wrong.


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kkg22104
post Jun 30 2009, 02:37 AM
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QUOTE (Forsaken Love @ Jun 30 2009, 04:31 AM) *
Yeah come to think of it they were both fleash coloured, but in fairness to them i THINK they are in the manga too, but I could be wrong.


I went and found the page, it's Chapter 25, page 18. Arakawa didn't shade the right arm, so I guess it would seem flesh colored...?


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Imbris
post Jun 30 2009, 02:45 AM
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I'll raise my hand as one of the few who enjoyed the episode. Having read the manga and seen the first series (like almost everyone here), I have no objection to the new anime skipping some scenes and trying hard to get to all new anime content.

The animation in this episode was fine - I literally didn't notice one flaw while watching it in HD. The pacing was a bit quick, which I'm used to at this point, but again - I already know the story, so my brain is automatically filling in the gaps. And newcomers shouldn't have a problem with the pacing either - the storyline still makes sense, and they won't even know what they're missing!
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fullmoon
post Jun 30 2009, 04:45 AM
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lol, i haven't reviewed an episode for ages XD

I enjoyed it! and...While i was watching i hardly noticed which scenes had been cut (until after the episode when i was lurking during the episode discussion....i'm such a bad FMA fan) XD. Except perhaps for Izumi coming before Ed rather than after XD. I was so glad to see her in that sexy black dress! Man, She's just awesome! *w*

I loved Greed's Seiyuu in the first series but having said that, i also like the new seiyuu as well! I like them both >w< They both make Greed sound so....irresistible. lol anyway...

I loved the Ed vs Greed fight! I was jumping in my seat XDThe animation was fluid and well animated. It was just...awesome!

I was also happy that there was no censoring. I was worried about that XD

I felt the pacing was a little rushed at the end but other than that, it was fine for me ^___^

Considering this episode covers roughly..4 chapters, it was safe to assume that scenes will be cut. I was expecting it before i watched the episode. So that's probably why I'm not so disappointed XD, Though i was a little sad at what had to be cut...there was some great stuff that wasn't shown this episode that wasn't touched upon in the first anime like Ed's awesome stop at southern headquarters XD One of my favorite parts!. Ah, well...I shouldn't cry over spilled milk XD, besides thinking of episode 15 has be pumped! Ling, Ranfan, Mei and Mr Garfield (love the guy lol) Goodness Yay!!

I look forward to the next episode!! The animation looks really good ^w^

I'll return to lurking now XD. Oh and sorry about my reviews being so all over the place lol XD


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Sannom
post Jun 30 2009, 08:32 AM
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QUOTE ("Vagrant")
Scar's convo with his master just seemed better.


And the guy has white hair happy.gif I never understood how Arakawa could have done that mistake huh.gif Or she hadn't yet decided to give white air to all the Ishbals.

QUOTE ("Forsaken Love")
Greed seems very 2 dimensional to me in that episode


The guy wants everything in the world and don't want to let go of anything unless it's immaterial and he can share it without losing it. Of course he is two-dimensional laugh.gif Remember : Anime!Greed is cool and a little bit human. Manga!Greed and of course Brotherhood!Greed are just directed by their greed, nothing else.
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Kirara
post Jun 30 2009, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE (Sannom @ Jun 30 2009, 08:32 AM) *
Manga!Greed and of course Brotherhood!Greed are just directed by their greed, nothing else.



And yet Manga!Greed showed that he cared about his Chimera. Although he said he only cared about them because they belonged to him. You have to read between the lines. And Greed's attitude to what happened to the Chimera showed he viewed them more than just possessions.
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Forsaken Love
post Jun 30 2009, 10:29 AM
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and Greed consoling Al on his 'loss' a pure evil guy wouldnt do that! And there were lots of good characterization points that were skipped. Greed is not a evil character, hes an anti-hero i spose, and due to the skipped scenes I think he was shown more to be a 2 dimensional baddy rather than the more complex character he really is, there is waaaaaaay more to him then just been Greedy.


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Radadinator
post Jun 30 2009, 12:46 PM
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Any character that wants to take over the world and is still freaking awesome deserves at least three episodes. Here's to hoping that Bones at least gives him a good death.


OT:
QUOTE (Forsaken Love @ Jun 30 2009, 12:29 AM) *
This series is kinda reminding me of Harry Potter movies right now, the books=pure awesomeness the films=how the heck can you understand and enjoy when so much plot and all humor is missed out? *sigh*

If you watch the movies for pure enjoyment. XD
Still, at least Prisoner of Azkaban had more characterization than any of the other movies, and was a pretty good adaptation.
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Forsaken Love
post Jun 30 2009, 02:32 PM
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I agree Greed did deserve at least 3 episodes. I think that the first season would have been done so much better if they speant 20eps on it rather than 15, the amount of extra manga stuff that could have been covered with 5more episodes would have been greaaaaaat, *sigh* I hope they gve him a good death too, but gah the amount of stuff they need to cover next episode to get to ling the episode after is a lot, so im not holding my breath but its a short scene anyway.


OT:
QUOTE (Radadinator @ Jun 30 2009, 08:46 PM) *
... at least Prisoner of Azkaban had more characterization than any of the other movies, and was a pretty good adaptation.

lol thats my favourite book but i thought the film was awful XD but goblet of fire is worse and order of the phoneix ridiculously bad, i think philosphers stone and chamber of secrets were by far the best, as barely any scenes were missed out, the actors fitted their roles and just seemed to do the books wayyyy more justice (lol eee im getting off topic forgive me!)



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Sannom
post Jun 30 2009, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE ("Kirara")
And yet Manga!Greed showed that he cared about his Chimera. Although he said he only cared about them because they belonged to him. You have to read between the lines. And Greed's attitude to what happened to the Chimera showed he viewed them more than just possessions.


I think people are reading too much between the lines, in fact, or perhaps that they won't go far enough. Greed doesn't feel anything except greed. The chimeras are his possessions. He treats them well so that they would stay loyal to him and stay in his possession, and I don't see how this is different from the way you treat pets. There is nothing beyond that or me : pure and selfish greed.

And that's an error Lin made for me : he mistook Greed's care for his possessions for affection. Thought that he could push that button. But I think that he is now realizing that there is nothing he can do : Greed is only a Homonculus, he doesn't feel like a normal human. He is from a batch of Homonculus that showed physical deformations associated with a pure control by their sin (Greed, Envy, Sloth and Glutonny) and this won't change.
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Vagrant
post Jun 30 2009, 10:17 PM
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The homonculi have shown plenty of human traits and emotions. Gluttony was attached to Lust, we've seen Envy get angry before, Lust's somewhat voluntary death, etc.
Most of them may have personalities rooted in their titular sin, but they're capable of plenty more feelings. I don't see Greed being any different.

My memory may be hazy on it, but I don't see a problem with Greed having some compassion for his chimera friends.


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Imbris
post Jul 1 2009, 01:47 AM
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Woah Sannom - major spoilers in your post! Cover it up, quick! smile.gif
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Forsaken Love
post Jul 1 2009, 04:23 AM
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QUOTE (Sannom @ Jul 1 2009, 01:36 AM) *
QUOTE ("Kirara")
And yet Manga!Greed showed that he cared about his Chimera. Although he said he only cared about them because they belonged to him. You have to read between the lines. And Greed's attitude to what happened to the Chimera showed he viewed them more than just possessions.


I think people are reading too much between the lines, in fact, or perhaps that they won't go far enough. Greed doesn't feel anything except greed. The chimeras are his possessions. He treats them well so that they would stay loyal to him and stay in his possession, and I don't see how this is different from the way you treat pets. There is nothing beyond that or me : pure and selfish greed.

And that's an error Lin made for me : he mistook Greed's care for his possessions for affection. Thought that he could push that button. But I think that he is now realizing that there is nothing he can do : Greed is only a Homonculus, he doesn't feel like a normal human. He is from a batch of Homonculus that showed physical deformations associated with a pure control by their sin (Greed, Envy, Sloth and Glutonny) and this won't change.


yeah, but then why did he say he would console Al for his loss? Why did he try to sort things out peacefully instead of ripping him apart, if his Greed was consuming him that much surely he would have shown no amount of mercy no matter how small? Also in later Greeling chapters when he gets his memorys back why does he say he feels so lonley and empty despite having so many souls inside him? He's Greed so obviously he's driven by Greed but theres more to his character than just that by far, hence why he's an anti-hero and not just a bad guy


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