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Suicide, What are your thoughts?
asunder
post Dec 18 2006, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE(cmChimera @ Dec 18 2006, 01:26 AM) [snapback]485667[/snapback]
This is a reminder that I didn't need you to make excuses for not being able to refute what I've said at the moment.

This is a reminder for you not to be a little bitch. I know it's hard for you, but really grow up.

Either you have absolutely no idea how this forum debate scheme works or you're just a troll.

QUOTE(cmChimera @ Dec 16 2006, 02:03 PM) [snapback]485124[/snapback]
Suicide is a cowards way out....



This is the equivalent of flamebait. Posting an insensitive opinion with really no substance to back it up.


I make a post about euthansia which is a subset of suicide... just to show you a situation where your snot nosed opinion really holds no water.
Your response has me questioning both your reading comprehension and logic skills.

I laughed last night at this:
QUOTE

The situation is not realistic....If this situation really existed this person would either have to remain in the hospital, or would have medication to specifically deal with the pain....Doctors don't release patients into a world that they cannot handle. So in the more realistic version, that person should make the best of his life
Wow, again ignorance at it's finest. Doctors do this all the time. We don't have cures for a plethora of diseases and conditions. There are treatments available in certain cases, but not cures. There's sometimes nothing you can really do to help a dying person or the treatment options are akin to severe forms of torture. A simple example is theraputic radiation treatment for "Advanced Adult Primary Liver Cancer"...the treatment is really only pallative care at that point, but the radiation exposure can lead to other cancers not to mention some nasty side effects.

But you said it wasn't realistic. So here's a transcript from one of Dr. Kevorkian's patients:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/ke...ntzmiller1.html

QUOTE
And I've been told I can't do anything. Every surgery has made me worse, especially the last one.

Kevorkian: How many have you had?

Marjorie: Ten.

Kevorkian: Ten surgeries. ... (inaudible) in the one spot, and this time he left a needle up there and he won't take it out. No doctor will take it out. He's left the needle up away from the vaginal area. He will not take it out, so no other doctor will take it out. He said, "That's not causing your pain," he said. I was in pain before this ... (inaudible), Dr. Kevorkian knows that. I was in pain before the needle was left in, but not as much, since he did this graph. He did a complete graph, a bunch of stuff off my leg. It's a long story.

And he refuses to do anything about it. He just says, "Go home and live with it. Just go home and forget and live with it."


A lot of the other points you've made about healthcare, treatment options and medication are really speculative at best.


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Popogeejo
post Dec 18 2006, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE
If they are both equally scary, what makes suicide a better option
That's down to the individual then isn't it.

QUOTE
In an attempt to mimic me, you're destroying your own argument.

And yet I don't care. I'm merely countering each of your arguments and every now and then doing it in a light hearted manner.

QUOTE
Suicide is a term for a self inflicted homicide.....One person cannot commit suicide onto another just as one cannot commit homicide to himself.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_cop

QUOTE
You made the blind assumption that I was religious, and then stated that religious people, instead of believing in themselves, put faith into another....I simply showed that to be wrong.

Well you did mention Jesus as an argument so that doesn't make my assumption blind. Plus your view and my view could coexist in people, they could believe in themselves and put hope in God.

QUOTE
A person that commits suicide is dead....
They still deserve respect. Who are you to decide who does and doesn't deserve respect.

QUOTE
Is this your argument?

No, that was a lead up to my following points.

QUOTE
Painkillers ineffective to the point where they are completely unnoticeable?
What does it matter, as long as they aren't providing enough relief then they aren't doing the job.

QUOTE
Who exactly is he a burden on then?

The people who have to care for you.

QUOTE
You said I had no family and no friends and I'm paralyzed from the neck down......How exactly did I get to the hospital then? [Someonehad to bring me there.

Wow, now you're just not trying, in fact most of your "arguments" are just over tiny little things while not addressing the points as a whole.
Well anyway, if you go and re-read my post, I said you had some friends for a start, plus you could have been paralysed in a car accident and brought to hospital in an ambulance. Really, though, what does it matter. Are you so out of real ideas that you have to go for the most inane little points? I mean, come on, if you aren't going to try them go away, and don't just make non-contributive arguments for the sake of trying to out last us.

EDIT
CODE
That act would no longer be heroic now would it?

You would have to know what that person was thinking which is impossible.

CODE
Jesus died for the sake of the human race.

Jesus died because he wanted humanity to be forgiven. No one asked for him to die for their things. He choose to for his own agenda.

CODE
Life is a potentially deadly situation....By your logic, motherhood is a euphemism for homicide

How is it a euphemism?
Homicide: Intentionally taking someone's life either in person or by manipulating events so the person is killed.
You don't take someone's life by giving birth to them.
Don't tell me what my logic is.


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ed_drink_your_mi...
post Dec 19 2006, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE(cmChimera @ Dec 17 2006, 10:35 PM) [snapback]485647[/snapback]
QUOTE

By my logic everyone who deliberately act in a way that would cost them their lives, knowingly, is committing suicide. Jesus sacrificed himself (allegedly) for the greater good. It's still suicide. And it's not just m logic, it's how it's defined in the dictionary.
Your logic is a pitiful attempt to justify suicide....
QUOTE
Thinking about killing yourself, really thinking about doing it, is probably scarier than choosing to go on living.
Again, if the thought of losing one's life is scarier than living then why would they kill themselves.....You're not making any sense....And the dictionary says nothing like that. You've skewed the definition to conform to your own beliefs.
QUOTE
You're purposely condemning yourself to death, admitting you were beaten and throwing in the towel. It takes allot to know when your beat.
In other words you were too weak to deal with your problems and you are giving up....I'm failing to see how you are putting a positive spin on suicide. In my eyes you are feeding my argument here...
QUOTE
And, on the subject of it being a cowards way out, I think that that is really disrespectful.
Why would I respect a coward?
QUOTE
I have a friend who seriously considered suicide, and she is probably the bravest, most intelligent person I know. In the end I helped her ork it out, but what about people without friends. Then what. There wouldn't have been a way out for them. It's not a cowards option, it's just a different option.
I'm glad she didn't....But you realize that since she didn't...I couldn't logically call her a coward for killing herself....So nothing I've said so far has applied to your friend...
QUOTE
I wouldn't want anyone close to me to die, but, if they were truely suffering and there was no way out, I would accept their dicision out of respect for them. I know there will be people who disagree with me, but I think that if someone's life is so messed up that they want to take it away, they should at least have a little respect and hopefully be able to rest in peace.
There's always a way out.....Hence why suicide is cowardly.

There is nothing cowardly about it, on the contrary, as Popogeejo has said many times, killing yourself probably takes much more courage than living!


QUOTE(cmChimera @ Dec 17 2006, 11:03 PM) [snapback]485656[/snapback]
Asunder, am I to assume that only that there is only one valid reason for suicide? I mean, you cite only one reason for suicide as the sole basis for your argument.... I just think I should clarify before I say anything.....I mean we're discussing suicide as a whole...You understand that right?
QUOTE
Actually i agree to that point Popo made there.
How is it pitiful ? huh.gif
Suicide is willfully ending one's own life for their own purpose.....For example....You get picked on, so you shoot yourself in the face....Jumping in front of a bullet in an attempt to save someone's life is not....This was said earlier

It doesn't matter the reason! It is still suicide because you are putting yourself in a position of almost certain death. Yes, it is brave and honorable, but the fact is, YOU put yourself there. Therefore, it is suicide.

The fact is, this is argument is never going to end because we are fightingtwo separate battles at once. One is the ethical side of suicide and one is the literal side of suicide. By mixing them, nobody will ever agree (though I can't imagine we will anyway laugh.gif ).

So, separated, the literal definition is:
QUOTE
su·i·cide /ˈsuəˌsaɪd/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[soo-uh-sahyd]Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -cid·ed, -cid·ing.
–noun
1. the intentional taking of one's own life.
2. destruction of one's own interests or prospects: Buying that house was financial suicide.
3. a person who intentionally takes his or her own life.
–verb (used without object)
4. to commit suicide.
–verb (used with object)
5. to kill (oneself).

I know that the definition has been put up before but I will add it again. Now, from the literal point of view, EVERYTHING that someone does, whether to save another or not that they voluntary do to take their life, is suicide.

From the ethics point of view, one could argue that many cases were not, but again, they are separate issues within the issue.


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Astria
post Dec 20 2006, 08:52 AM
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The only thing that definition shows is that there are manys ways to define 'suicide' in society - whether it involves a person ending their own life intentionally, or ensuring their death through an attempt to save another.

Frankly, I've never understood what place a question of 'ethics' or 'morality' has in a discussion like this. Both are constructed through commonly held views in society - rules, ways of thinking which most people adhere to. Yet a person who is considering suicide has - by definition - stepped outside of these boundaries, finds it difficult to understand their situation in relation to ethics or morals. There is an extent to which people are able to 'conform'. There are people on here claiming that people just don't 'work hard enough' to fit in, or to solve their problems. As a point of view, this shows a sickeningly naive attitude towards a depressed state of mind. If anything, a constant clamour of voices telling you to 'deal with it' is only likely to make things worse, not better.

Society tells us to live, to fulfil a function in society - everyone has a place, a role to fill in work and/or in family. A person who is suicidally depressed is possibly unable to comprehend that they can or will ever be able to fit into society as it exists. This isn't just physical laziness or inability - it is an insular state of mind, where a persons thoughts might become so caught up in the same train of thought that they become seemingly incapable of seeing a way out of it. A person in that state of mind sees only the negatives of the outside world reflecting upon them. The fact that they don't have a job or aren't in a relationship (to take common examples) becomes "I'll never be able to find a job I'm good at/enjoy, I'm just not 'meant' to be in a relationship". This sort of depressive thinking ends up as a vicious circle.

I think that seeing yourself outside of the mainstream of things can become a terrible pressure - especially when a person, by virtue of that point of view, can only see themselves as somehow 'inadequate' in society.
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MonsterEnvy
post Dec 20 2006, 03:40 PM
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Wuh. Wow, Popo, Asu, don't be so irresponsible.

I'll redefine suicide for this thread.

Suicide is the act of one going through such actions that would end up ending his own life with the goal of ending his life.

So- Person shoots himself in the head. Suicide. He obviously wanted himself dead.

Soldier jumps on grenade. Not suicide. He wanted to save the other people around him.

Person goes and forces a cop to shoot him. Questionable. Depends on the motivation, may not be clear.

On that note, let's happily continue the discussion.

I'll toss in one more point- don't throw the one-liners back and forth. Have paragraph arguments and respond to them intelligently.

Astria- Good point. With the continually high expectations for ourselves, it's often easy to feel like we're failing at all aspects of our lives. However, it doesn't seem like a real reason to end one's life- although, it seems like the reasons most people come up with are even poorer. Bullying- that's a horrible reason to want to die. Teenagers simply have no sense of perspective at all, and won't realize which events in their lives will be gone and forgotten next year. Of course, the example you cite is a much more serious case- the person in that sort of manic depressive cycle could easily become suicidal, and quite validly, too, if incorrectly.

I'll repeat my views on the matter- most of the time, suicidal adults are adequately suicidal. They've often had a long time to reflect, and by the time that anyone notices, they've killed themselves. Teens, on the other hand, are so spontaneous and suicide is so popular that you end up with 'faux-suicides,' those people who constantly threaten suicide for attention but never go to a psychologist, and simply drain the lives of everyone around them. I hate them with all of my heart, and a bit more. I've dealt with them, and never will again. Truly suicidal people are a different case, but they'll usually just go and do it.

Eh, I'm a bit harsh on emo teens, but they suck.


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Astria
post Dec 21 2006, 05:40 PM
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QUOTE(MonsterEnvy @ Dec 20 2006, 10:40 PM) [snapback]486582[/snapback]
Astria- Good point. With the continually high expectations for ourselves, it's often easy to feel like we're failing at all aspects of our lives. However, it doesn't seem like a real reason to end one's life- although, it seems like the reasons most people come up with are even poorer. Bullying- that's a horrible reason to want to die. Teenagers simply have no sense of perspective at all, and won't realize which events in their lives will be gone and forgotten next year. Of course, the example you cite is a much more serious case- the person in that sort of manic depressive cycle could easily become suicidal, and quite validly, too, if incorrectly.

I'll repeat my views on the matter- most of the time, suicidal adults are adequately suicidal. They've often had a long time to reflect, and by the time that anyone notices, they've killed themselves. Teens, on the other hand, are so spontaneous and suicide is so popular that you end up with 'faux-suicides,' those people who constantly threaten suicide for attention but never go to a psychologist, and simply drain the lives of everyone around them. I hate them with all of my heart, and a bit more. I've dealt with them, and never will again. Truly suicidal people are a different case, but they'll usually just go and do it.

Eh, I'm a bit harsh on emo teens, but they suck.


What, then, would be a 'real' reason to commit suicide? What makes a person 'adequately' suicidal? What might seem an 'objectively' invalid reason to one group of people, might seem like a reasonable last-ditch resort for the individual concerned. Total subjectivity is the matter in hand. I could mention the 'cowardice' argument, but then I'd just lose my temper.

People need also to distinguish between the states of mind those who *have* commited suicide (their state of mind before the event, I mean), and those who have attempted or threatened it. Those who are, as you put it "truly suicidal" might have planned out to the last detail how they will end their lives. Those who, perhaps subconsciously, wish to survive any attempt, might not have down so. The attitudes differ; one still hoping for, for want of a better word, respite, the other convinced they can never achieve it. What's more, envisaging yourself out of a bad situation takes confidence and detirmination, which many people who consider suicide evidently sorely lack, whatever their age.

'Emo teens'...well, that description is a problem in itself, but this isn't the thread for me to rant about social points like that. I agree that young people are considered more likely to react spontaneously to a situation. I say 'considered' because it is very much a case of psychological maturity. Even an adult with a horrendous string of bad luck might act on a suicidal impulse - recklessly cross a road of speeding traffic, jump under the wheels of a train. Even though death is not assured them, they react without thought of the consequence - to them or to others. That, I believe, is perhaps even more dangerous then those who know how they would commit suicide. Up until that moment they might not have considered suicide, but one particular opportunity presented itself and the deed was done before a more rational frame of mind could assert itself.

A couple of months ago, a British paper reported on a student (mid-twenties, I think) committing suicide after being hounded by his bank for repayments. It is all very well for others who stand detached from the man's situation to think of ways around it, but far different for the man who couldn't see beyond a thousand-pound debt.

There are always those who will "throw their lives away" on what others might consider minor, even trivial events. But 'we', being mere obeservers, have no right to judge what 'they' choose, or even really to comment upon the desparation that drove them to such measures. This might sound trite or idealistic, but I do think it's a mistake to forever (socially) define suicide through reference to what is thought 'valid' or 'correct'.
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cmChimera
post Dec 23 2006, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE
Take depression for example; only some of the medications do any good for anyone, and many people can't benefit from them at all, and they have unhelpful side effects.
I don't consider depression a mental illness.....
QUOTE
If your health is deteriorating and you can't support yourself, if you live your life miserably in a hospital, yes you are a burden to people, especially your family.
Y'all call me insensitive, yet y'all would call a dying family member a burden....Due to the negative connotation that burden has, I find that cold. And am I to assume that other people judge if it is alright for you to kill yourself? By the way y'all are talking about it, it makes it seem lke if the person feels that no one wants them here then they should go ahead and die.....
QUOTE
Ok, here you're just grasping at straws, doing nothing to further your arguement, and overall just being stupid, stubborn, and making yourself look even more like an obnoxious idiot. Please just stop doing that. It doesn't matter who brought the person to the hospital, that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the arguement. Again, just stop doing it. It's practically painful to see.
Just by seeing what you quoted, I can tell you didn't read or you are unable to comprehend the argument. Try reading it again before you make yourself out to be an "obnoxious idiot".
QUOTE

This is a reminder for you not to be a little b*tch. I know it's hard for you, but really grow up.

Either you have absolutely no idea how this forum debate scheme works or you're just a troll.
You posted a response that brought absolutely nothing to the topic. You simply laughed at my post in an attempt to make yourself look better. If you are going to mock me, I'll mock you right back. Don't be so stupid as to attempt to put the blame for that on me. You do understand the word hypocrite right?
QUOTE
This is the equivalent of flamebait. Posting an insensitive opinion with really no substance to back it up.
The topic asks what you think about suicide. I have a right to post any opinion I feel like posting......In my opinion your opinion is stupid, but I would never tell you you don't have the right to have it....
QUOTE
Wow, again ignorance at it's finest. Doctors do this all the time. We don't have cures for a plethora of diseases and conditions. There are treatments available in certain cases, but not cures.
Yes indeed, not once do I mention cures.....
QUOTE
There's sometimes nothing you can really do to help a dying person or the treatment options are akin to severe forms of torture. A simple example is theraputic radiation treatment for "Advanced Adult Primary Liver Cancer"...the treatment is really only pallative care at that point, but the radiation exposure can lead to other cancers not to mention some nasty side effects.
Yet the treatment isn't forced on you....If they choose not to accept treatment then they choose not to accept treatment....I fail to see how this justifies suicide...
QUOTE
But you said it wasn't realistic. So here's a transcript from one of Dr. Kevorkian's patients:
Kevorkian is in jail for second degree murder.....So it seems to me like the majority of society highly disagrees with this patient, Kevorkian, and you.



I got more just chillen, it won't let me post it just yet. So when someone posts I'll post the rest
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Popogeejo
post Dec 23 2006, 03:11 PM
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QUOTE
I don't consider depression a mental illness.....
I had no Idea you were a doctor...

QUOTE
Y'all call me insensitive, yet y'all would call a dying family member a burden....Due to the negative connotation that burden has, I find that cold. And am I to assume that other people judge if it is alright for you to kill yourself? By the way y'all are talking about it, it makes it seem lke if the person feels that no one wants them here then they should go ahead and die....

That's how you see it. Fine. I'm sure we don't mean to be seen that way, all we are saying is that it's the individuals right to choose and not yours or anyone else's.

QUOTE
Just by seeing what you quoted, I can tell you didn't read or you are unable to comprehend the argument. Try reading it again before you make yourself out to be an "obnoxious idiot".
Actually your "argument" is totally trivial and has nothing to do with any of the actual issues. It's just nitpicking because you seem unable to come up with a decent logical argument.

QUOTE
The topic asks what you think about suicide. I have a right to post any opinion I feel like

Technically that's true but you are expected to back up your opinions with reasons and the like. That's the point of debates.

QUOTE
In my opinion your opinion is stupid, but I would never tell you you don't have the right to have it..
...Nobody even remotely implied you couldn't have yours either as you seem to imply.

QUOTE
Yet the treatment isn't forced on you....If they choose not to accept treatment then they choose not to accept treatment....I fail to see how this justifies suicide...

They refuse treatment because they will still be alive but they will be suffering badly. if they are going to die then they probably want to do so in relative comfort.

We've given plenty of reasons why suicide is not cowardly and is, at times, perfectly legitimate. You have not given a logical or decent reason why people should not be allowed to kill themselves.


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asunder
post Dec 23 2006, 03:38 PM
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QUOTE
You posted a response that brought absolutely nothing to the topic. You simply laughed at my post in an attempt to make yourself look better. If you are going to mock me, I'll mock you right back. Don't be so stupid as to attempt to put the blame for that on me. You do understand the word hypocrite right?
You inferred wrong. There was nothing mocking on my part. It was actually a subtle hint that I was done posting for the night and that I would continue the next morning. I did not imply what you said in the quote. You inferred that. Perhaps you don't understand what the word refute means?

QUOTE
The topic asks what you think about suicide. I have a right to post any opinion I feel like posting......In my opinion your opinion is stupid, but I would never tell you you don't have the right to have it....


Posting your opinion by itself does nothing to contribute to a good debate. In this subforum, that's frowned upon and is the equivalent of spam. All your posts so far have really been worthless. Instead of making one-lined responses why don't you take the time to stop and expound on your opinion.


My medically related posts so far were about realistic situations where a person has reached the end part of their life and have chosen suicide as their course of action. If they've lived with pain for the last 5-10 years of their life. I can't really see anything cowardly about their action. They've already endured prolonged pain and suffering. What more do you want from them?

I've even given examples of how doctors can't diagnose, cure nor fully treat a patient's maladies. Even gave Dr. Kevorikian's case as a real example to which other doctors were of no help to the patient [who was suffering from psychosomatic pain and depression] which can clearly show why a person would want to commit suicide.



oh and as a treat, even if you don't consider depression a mental illness... the federal government sure does:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/depression.html


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phoenix dying
post Dec 23 2006, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE(Popogeejo @ Dec 18 2006, 01:09 AM) [snapback]485660[/snapback]
So Jesus did commit Suicide?


I don't know what your talking about rolleyes.gif


ASU:



Even though i have posted this picture, I am in now way, shape, or form supporting cmChimera and his/hers/what ever the hell you are's ideas and thoughts. This picture is here to state a well known fact, that Asunder is a Jerk. The picture is just reinforcing fact and even spreading the word. But putting all that aside I do happen to agree with Asu and Poop on the subject of that cmChimera post's here and in the general forum have been, well to be frank here. THEY HAVE BEEN FREAKING RETARDED.

Now let us review some of your retarted-ness joy, this foul crap that you decided to share with us in this 'debate'.

Each line here is one of your one sentence stupid responses:

QUOTE(cmChimera @ Dec 18 2006, 12:35 AM) [snapback]485647[/snapback]
Your logic is a pitiful attempt to justify suicide....

Why would I respect a coward?

There's always a way out.....Hence why suicide is cowardly.

Like live?

And?

How did I get to the hospital?

That act would no longer be heroic now would it?


First off, stop it with these one sentence bullshit. You are not going to win a debate with one short sentance answers. The only thing your telling us is your inaptitude to carry on a basic debate/conservation. For Christ sake learn how to fucking explain yourself. Provide us with an intelligent post, and when someone does not agree with what you say. Retort with and intelligent post. And when you agree with some on respond with a intelligent post. See the key word? Intelligence: displaying or characterized by quickness of understanding, sound thought, or good judgment. You are lacking this key quality.

I'll give you a few more examples:

QUOTE(cmChimera @ Dec 23 2006, 04:41 PM) [snapback]487662[/snapback]
QUOTE
Take depression for example; only some of the medications do any good for anyone, and many people can't benefit from them at all, and they have unhelpful side effects.
I don't consider depression a mental illness.....


Then what the hell do you consider a mental illness? Or more importantly why don't you consider depression a mental illness? You need to explain your bullshit because its getting too thick to wade through now.

QUOTE(cmChimera @ Dec 18 2006, 01:26 AM) [snapback]485667[/snapback]
QUOTE
This is the equivalent of flamebait. Posting an insensitive opinion with really no substance to back it up.
The topic asks what you think about suicide. I have a right to post any opinion I feel like posting......In my opinion your opinion is stupid, but I would never tell you you don't have the right to have it....


Yes, every one has the right to have there own opinion here. But your abusing your right to have an opinion. In here opinions are based on formal expressions of a professional judgment. And I ask you kindly if you cannot accomplish this simple task. Please leave this topic.

QUOTE(cmChimera @ Dec 18 2006, 01:26 AM) [snapback]485667[/snapback]
This is a reminder that I didn't need you to make excuses for not being able to refute what I've said at the moment.


What the hell is this shit? Please explain this to me....

QUOTE(cmChimera @ Dec 23 2006, 04:41 PM) [snapback]487662[/snapback]
QUOTE

This is a reminder for you not to be a little b*tch. I know it's hard for you, but really grow up.

Either you have absolutely no idea how this forum debate scheme works or you're just a troll.


You posted a response that brought absolutely nothing to the topic. You simply laughed at my post in an attempt to make yourself look better. If you are going to mock me, I'll mock you right back. Don't be so stupid as to attempt to put the blame for that on me. You do understand the word hypocrite right?


Hey! I don't know if you have been conscious for your post here but you have brought absolutely nothing to the topic. And in case you haven't noticed this is a debate topic. People and ideas clash here, as there are intended to. Hence why there held here.

Hypocrite:
1. A person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives

And to answer you. Yes I understand what hypocrite means, and I see no fault in what he has done. In fact if you must know he has done more that you. And your more at fault with this than most.


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Drinking women, chasing whiskey

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cmChimera
post Dec 23 2006, 07:59 PM
Post #296


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QUOTE
That's down to the individual then isn't it.
It's up to me whether or not I shoot you in the face.....Doesn't make the action acceptable.
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And yet I don't care. I'm merely countering each of your arguments and every now and then doing it in a light hearted manner.
Countering my arguments means refuting them in some way....You're doing the opposite and refuting your own.....
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That's basically like jumping off a cliff....Unless they had some kind of noble reasoning behind the act, I would call that suicide.
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Well you did mention Jesus as an argument so that doesn't make my assumption blind. Plus your view and my view could coexist in people, they could believe in themselves and put hope in God.
Rephrase this.
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They still deserve respect. Who are you to decide who does and doesn't deserve respect.
This is the funniest thing I ever heard.... "They still deserve respect"....This is TELLING me that these people DESERVE respect. Then you say "Who are you to DECIDE who DESERVES RESPECT" You do the exact thing that you tell me I have no right to do.....Wow....
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What does it matter, as long as they aren't providing enough relief then they aren't doing the job.
So if cold medicine doesn't cure my cold the second after ingestion, it's not doing its job......Seriously your arguments are weak, bordering on pathetic.
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Well anyway, if you go and re-read my post, I said you had some friends for a start, plus you could have been paralysed in a car accident and brought to hospital in an ambulance.
Read it, and saw nothing about what you said, but regardless if the person had a car, he must either have family, or a job. And seeing how I find it highly unlikely that this guy supported himself through school, magically bought a car and went to work I'll assume he has SOMEONE. And someone still called 911, and the doctors are willing to help this man.....I'm sorry but there is no one who is without anyone in this world.


As the definition for suicide has been defined for us by monster envy, I'm not going to argue the definition any further....And I'm not going to respond to ed drink your milk's post...It's laughable.




I'll post later....gonna go get drunk.
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Envy II
post Dec 23 2006, 11:45 PM
Post #297


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I think that suicide is one's choice. It's their own life, they can do whatever they want to with it. It's when somebody kills another that bothers me.

I just don't like it when people do it for silly reasons like being slightly overweight. I once knew a girl who was suicidal for that reason, she never killed herself, but it's a silly thing to kill yourself over.

I do not like suicide, and I'd rather nobody do it, but it's their life.


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Popogeejo
post Dec 24 2006, 06:18 AM
Post #298


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QUOTE
It's up to me whether or not I shoot you in the face.....Doesn't make the action acceptable.
I doesn't make it cowardly either. People have the right to free speech, free worship and a whole bunch of other human rights. The right to die should be one of those. It's not acceptable to say something racist but people have that right and so they should, the right to die is, in essence, the same that way. Just because some may find it unacceptable doesn't mean it shouldn't be a right.

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That's basically like jumping off a cliff....Unless they had some kind of noble reasoning behind the act, I would call that suicide.

Thanks. So you admit you were wrong. You said:
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Suicide is a term for a self inflicted homicide.....One person cannot commit suicide onto another just as one cannot commit homicide to himself.....
And suicide by cop meets that criteria which you say is suicide. So you have clearly admitted you were wrong.
(I'm not trying to milk this but just make it nice and clear.)

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his is the funniest thing I ever heard.... "They still deserve respect"....This is TELLING me that these people DESERVE respect. Then you say "Who are you to DECIDE who DESERVES RESPECT" You do the exact thing that you tell me I have no right to do.....Wow....

The difference being: You are denying people respect for no good reason while I am giving respect to everyone. People have an unwritten right to be respected, they don't have a right to impose their moral beliefs on people (ad yes, I'm aware that can been seen as what we're doing right now.)

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So if cold medicine doesn't cure my cold the second after ingestion, it's not doing its job......Seriously your arguments are weak, bordering on pathetic.
A cold isn't fatal, nor does it cause great suffering, liver failure is and does. Yes, these people should try treatment first but when it's clear that none of it is having any decent effect then people should be allowed to die without suffering further. if they want to fight on then good for them, but if they want to pass away in relative comfort knowing that nothing can be done then let them.
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he must either have family, or a job.

Homeless people, Orphans, single adult children who's parents have died. There are people who don't have families and millions who don't have jobs.

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And seeing how I find it highly unlikely that this guy supported himself through school, magically bought a car and went to work I'll assume he has SOMEONE
I can't belive your being so anal over a minor detail.
1) This person could have been hit by a car while crossing the road,
2) He could have been in a bus,
3) The guy could have a small job and been able to afford a cheap car.
Also, just because someone has a job doesn't mean they don't have anyone. I don't even begin to understand that logic.

QUOTE
And someone still called 911, and the doctors are willing to help this man.....I'm sorry but there is no one who is without anyone in this world.

All that means is some did their Civic duty (or whoever else was in the accident called the accident in) and the Doctors did what they were paid to do. That doesn't mean the Person has someone.

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I'm sorry but there is no one who is without anyone in this world.

How naive are you? Go tell that to a homeless person, to an elderly person sitting in a residential home who's never gotten a visitor. Doctors may be there to treat them, charities may be there to feed and clothe them but that doesn't mean they care about everyone on an individual basis.
The idea that everyone has someone is sweet but far from accurate.


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>Click the picture for me gushing over over Summer Wars shenanigans!<
The various works of FKMT are something you should read
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Funderful
post Dec 24 2006, 09:25 AM
Post #299


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I don't think it's a cowards way out.
You'd have to be awfully damn brave to pull a trigger on yourself.

I also think it's a choice.
If someone thinks it's the only way out, that's their own.
But they should consult a therapist if these feelings occur...
I mean, if you're in a state of depression, it's quite possible to get out.

I don't agree with it being illegal.
What will they do if they discover someone attempted suicide?
Throw 'em in jail? How does that help them?
If they have no will to live, they transform into souless shells.
They could get help, but sometimes they're dead before their life is ended.
I agree with Sax4Life; It's their life, and they can do what they will with it. But suicide isn't something I recommend.
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Roy Mustard
post Dec 25 2006, 04:11 AM
Post #300


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I think suicide is mostly stupid...I mean to kill yourself because your bf or gf dumper you or whatever? There are other people in the world who still care about you, and when you meet this obsticle in your life you decide to kill yourself? It's utterly selfish. But suicide isn't always bad...sometimes when all those who care for you are gone and no one likes you anymore, you'd probably kill yourself.

BTW does anyone believe in sweet suicide?


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