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Episode 30: The Ishvalan War Of Extermination - Content Discussion Thread, Warning! May contain spoilers for the first 30 episodes!!
Broken Chouchou
post Nov 1 2009, 10:56 AM
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QUOTE (Vlyse @ Nov 1 2009, 10:18 AM) *
Was that a shot of Isaac I saw about halfway in?


I believe it was! At 10.04; metal sheet covering the arm, crew cut, shadowy eyes... nice touch indeed. Now on to finish watching the rest of the episode. So far I feel it has been quite punch-packing, impact wise, despite what everyone has said smile.gif I really like the bombastic militaristy music.

EDIT:

Now that I've watched the whole ep, I'll give away some thoughts.

- That (new!) vocal piece which played during the creation of the Philosopher's stone was great. Conveyed some serious emotion.
- I feel like making small (and essentially insignificant) changes like Riza's father dying in bed helps establish Brotherhood as it's own series, instead of having it be a slideshow of moving panels from the manga. It feels more of an adaption that way, rather than a slavish "recap" (?).
- Good way to end the episode; quite a cliffhanger. Or at least it would be, if Marcoh had gotten some more screentime. As it is, we barely knew who he was, which makes it harder to emphatize with him as a character.
- About screentime, too bad they left out Marcoh talking to Dr. Knox. And Armstrong proving himself to be human. And Kimbley ruining that one humane act. And Riza saving Roy and Hughes from that Ishbalan soldier. And Envy's precence on the battlefield, right after Kimblee goes extra crazy. In short, they left out a couple of great scenes, a lot which I didn't mention here. Let's hope they'll put things like this in later.
- The only thing I actually felt lacking with the episode was the missing feeling of war. Where's the chaos? Where's the hectic battles? Where's the stray bullets and nearby explosions? This is why I think they should have made a FULL flashback. Thrown us back in time for maybe two full episodes, and really having the past of Ishbal feel like the PRESENCE. The here. The now. Like it is now, they're sprinkling (as someone previously said) scenes from Ishval here and there throughout the series, which is really not a bad way to have it. It's just that it takes away the impression of being "in the moment".
- Oh, and Bradley was finally made justice! So far he's been looking chubby (facially), IMO. The lines of his face has been ridicilously thick at times, making him feel really cartoonish. Now he resembled his serious-looking anime1 counterpart more. Which I think is good.
- The eyecatches were awesome biggrin.gif This is the first time I've looked at Riza as an attractive character xP
- And lastly, it just hit me that we've probably gone through more than half of the series! I mean, we're already at episode 30! It suddenly feels like it's gone really fast T_O


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Irena
post Nov 1 2009, 11:17 AM
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While it's true that a lot was left out, my guess is that they're trying to spread things out. I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff we missed pops up later in the series.

At least we finally got some cute Riza eyecatches x]
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S.F. Thunder
post Nov 1 2009, 11:31 AM
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I have no doubt that they'll save the scenes that were left out until a later time, like mentioned before. In the meantime, I like what they did with what they have. Kimbley sounds... different... though. Like they used a different voice actor all of a sudden. Maybe I'm just imagining it. On a slightly different note, has he always had blue eyes? They were yellow in anime1, but maybe in the manga gold eyes are supposed to be reserved for people from Xerxes and their descendants?

Anyway, despite the missing pieces I liked this episode. It wasn't the best, and it could've used more emotional effect, but it could've been a lot worse. Episode 13, anyone? 16? And now I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of book 15 in more effective places throughout the series.



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Thalogens
post Nov 1 2009, 11:46 AM
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Meh, I'm a little miffed... considering the awesomness of volume 15 - I was expecting an episode like 19...
Was it just me or did all the dialogue seem really clipped. Im sure they said much more in the manga, especially Riza's bits, and Hawkeye Sensei's plea for Riza to forgive him? ehh, I'm not even sure if this is a spoiler. meh. Or did it just seem really short because I wasn't reading it this time and I can't undrstand Japanese... aha.. *waits for subs*
Bah, it was an average ep, which disapoints me a little. Maybe if we pay them, they can be motivated enough to do something better...

It reminded me a lot of the Harry Potter movies, taking things out, moving things around and putting new stuff in. They better not do this to the last 10 chapters _
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Mr. Deathy
post Nov 1 2009, 11:56 AM
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^DoxyWings, the dialogue clipping has been there in every episode of the series so far. Some conversations have only had about 20% of their total dialogue from the manga.

This was just a very extreme case of it though since they not only were removing tons of scenes, they were trying to cram the few they kept into a short space of time.
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Broken Chouchou
post Nov 1 2009, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE (Irena @ Nov 1 2009, 12:17 PM) *
At least we finally got some cute Riza eyecatches x]


You mean sexy Riza eyecatches wink.gif


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A Pierrot's Aria
post Nov 1 2009, 12:16 PM
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QUOTE (Broken Chouchou @ Nov 1 2009, 11:56 AM) *
- And lastly, it just hit me that we've probably gone through more than half of the series! I mean, we're already at episode 30! It suddenly feels like it's gone really fast T_O


Yeah! I think this is the reason I believe that there is still more Ishbal to come, as well as further explanation of Riza's tattoo etc in later episodes, so I don't think people need to worry so much like they have been in this thread.

As an aspiring historian myself, I like the way character's different accounts are told seperately (and throughout different episodes) like sources from different people in an history project, because the big picture continues to grow and grow as the series goes; I think this makes it way more interesting than just spouting it out and flooding us with all of it at one time. : )


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Broken Chouchou
post Nov 1 2009, 12:26 PM
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QUOTE (A Pierrot's Aria @ Nov 1 2009, 12:16 PM) *
As an aspiring historian myself, I like the way character's different accounts are told seperately (and throughout different episodes) like sources from different people in an history project, because the big picture continues to grow and grow as the series goes; I think this makes it way more interesting than just spouting it out and flooding us with all of it at one time. : )


I thougt about it like that too. Sort of reminded me of Lost, THE show of flashbacks x] If they manage to make all the flashbacks feel connected and coherent, and not too confusing, I might actually prefer Ishval as a growing arc. In other words, to have pieces and mysteries of it revealed as the show goes along, as well as the increasing of depth. And the idea about viewing the war from different peoples perspectives sounds really interesting smile.gif


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Meu
post Nov 1 2009, 01:44 PM
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One volume in one episode? Oh Bones, why not two episodes? Some kick-[All hail lord Xenu] material was cut off~
Of course this depends on the viewer, but I think the Ishval flashback would've been more effective if it was kept in one piece. I love manga's volume 15, the story really swallowed me there. It's one of the most touching parts of the manga; I felt anxiety and the whole thing felt wonderfully chaotic, war-like.
This episode was just way too clean or something. So emotionless. :|

Cutting the war to pieces prevents the viewer to sink into the story... I think. It hits harder as whole.
And I'm bitter that they didn't show the whole scene with Fessler giving all these stupid orders and Grand shooting him. Grand's an awesome dude, really. (Fessler was fun, too.)

But hey, I love Kimbley. Such a creepy man. <3 I think his voice suits him, though I do think that it sounded a bit different than in the first episode?
The part with him yelling how wonderful the philosopher's stone is was really cool.

....And a tad of of Edwin is never a bad thing...
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Claudius
post Nov 1 2009, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE (Meu @ Nov 1 2009, 01:44 PM) *
And I'm bitter that they didn't show the whole scene with Fessler giving all these stupid orders and Grand shooting him. Grand's an awesome dude, really. (Fessler was fun, too.)
This brings up a question on MangaGran: Was he in the know, or was he just like Raven?
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SneakyRuler
post Nov 1 2009, 02:07 PM
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Nobody mentioned Envy after ending song... I love him very much (in a completely platonic way) and he was amazing this time, his reaction to Dr. Marcoh with his head blown off. Nice tiny bit, well made.

@Claudius I think he was too sincere to know, more probably seen as sacrifice candidate so he'd better not to have any idea smile.gif
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TheSentinel
post Nov 1 2009, 02:59 PM
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QUOTE (SneakyRuler @ Nov 1 2009, 05:07 PM) *
Nobody mentioned Envy after ending song... I love him very much (in a completely platonic way) and he was amazing this time, his reaction to Dr. Marcoh with his head blown off. Nice tiny bit, well made.

@Claudius I think he was too sincere to know, more probably seen as sacrifice candidate so he'd better not to have any idea smile.gif


That has always been an interesting question. He shoots fessler, to let the cleric try to bring the conflict to an end. He also shoot fessler for wasting soldier's lives. However, he never appears to have any issues/problems slaughtering Ishbalans though. He is named in charge, at least in name, of the Alchemy Research center. A vary ambiguous character is he... also dead.

Over all... I was kind of disappointed. I love the whole manga ishbal flashback. I do hope they keep adding missing pieces in future episodes (since they've been sprinkling it in through out the series.)

Its the Ishbal flashback which is good... but not enough of it... which is bad.

I'd rate the episode as good... but disappointingly incomplete.


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EveningAlchemist
post Nov 1 2009, 06:08 PM
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Well, despite the fact I feel like crying a little bit, since this part makes me so emotional, I can at least get some coherent thought about this episode in here. (And yes, I'm praying to the GOD of anime to please let them put in some of the other scenes as well. Such as Armstrong's attempt to save the Ishbalans, which had a big impact on me.) They kept some of the best lines of dialogue from Kimblee, Bradley, and Roy's master, so that's makes me happy. The music I thought was used very well, and that one new piece with the singing lady was just beautiful and me quiver a bit, with its haunting tones. I LOVE IT! It's really amazing how music can affect your emotions like that.

Kimblee was as creepy as I can picture him, no doubt. And Roy was just as emo-tastic. Hughes was funny too, like a ray of heaven's sunshine in hell. <3
This was one of my favourite volume of the manga for obvious reasons, and I knew it'd be hard to match its epic and accurate portrayal of war. I'll just think of it this way - it's more insightful, jaw-dropping and dripping with emotion than the Ishbal episode from the previous anime. (Even that made an impact on me at the time too - that says a lot about this episode. wink.gif )

All in all, they kept the parts with the most impact, not the tiny details we tend to worry about, so I just won't worry about it... too much. tongue.gif


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mandymtt
post Nov 1 2009, 07:27 PM
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wow- I know there is a lot of rage towards this episode, but I didn't hate it at all. Sure there were some things I missed-

-Riza sniping Roy and Hugh's attacker instead of her just being like 'oh hey roy whats up"
-Riza asking Roy to burn her back for her so no one else can learn flame alchemy. (I just think that was a great building point for their relationship)
-the same Kimbly things most people missed like the Rockbell situation.

But other then that-
-The animation was a lot better then some of the other eps.
-I thought Ed's face looked great! He's looking older and he had good expression.
-overall the episode had nice continuity showing the coffee empty as her story ended.
-and Kimbly such a damn good villain. Hes seriously in my top three favorite characters of the manga. Hes twisted, evil, and damn charming. They did a great job through his speech about the satisfactory of a kill.

I guess ideally this should have been two episode, because it did feel very fast, I found myself going back to re-watch things. And I wish they had shown more of Armstrong. But This is one of the better episodes so far IMO. And bones seems to be doing ok as far as screwing up Riza.... glad to see her getting more attention. Can't wait to see Olivia!!!

QUOTE (Irena @ Nov 1 2009, 11:17 AM) *
While it's true that a lot was left out, my guess is that they're trying to spread things out. I wouldn't be surprised if the stuff we missed pops up later in the series.

At least we finally got some cute Riza eyecatches x]


i agree- I bet bones will wind up switching some things up and include more war flashbacks and such in other eps. well.. we can hope.
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Bag of Magic Foo...
post Nov 1 2009, 07:29 PM
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Now I'm glad I didn't read the manga version of the story first, so my impression of this show isn't all just "OMG they cut my favorite part!"

Instead I can go back and read the manga later on and think, "Oh, so some other stuff happened too, nice!"
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