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Human Cloning
Omamori
post Apr 3 2008, 09:20 PM
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^True, but I'm also looking at this from a religious perspective...

What about the soul? Sure, you can clone a human or an animal or whatever, but it's not possible to clone a soul or spirit.


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Popogeejo
post Apr 3 2008, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE
it's not possible to clone a soul or spirit.

Assuming souls even exist, explain why they can't be cloned. You've said it's not possible so you must have something to back that up with.


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The Mad Bomber
post Aug 31 2008, 02:04 PM
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Oh ho, nothing more fun on a Sunday afternoon than to play god in your little garden of technology and start creating multiple clones of yourself... (okay I use humor in stuff like this albeit it might come across as offensive, but it highlights my point.)

I honestly find human cloning severely disturbed, what is the point? Create more mouths to feed? Give me a break, humans can reproduce themselves lest we are struck by a mysterious world wide impotence all of the sudden thus rendering human cloning pointless. And it`s really just playing god, creating a human, note the word `create`. Comes off a bit arrogant and artificial, no?

And yes surely *sigh* I, one who does not really believe in god, can see the flip side of the coin and see the technological goodies offered, but honestly. That`s humans were talking about, I find it disturbing that people play god. All tough we might be able to save more lives this way, we`ll just have to stomp on some ethics first. Well ethics hasn`t stopped science before has it? Well truth be told I am all for saving humans, but somehow I find cloning a concept I can`t stomach. The thing about growing human body parts? Well sounds a bit odd and freakish....

Also ever wondered what the first successful human clone might wonder? Wouldn`t he be someday curious as to his origins? And of what a joy ride, that might be if he only knew about how people are normally given birth. That works either way, which one he would consider normal might be a disturbing question not to mention he or she might feel a bit alienated at that moment.


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FailToImpress
post Sep 2 2008, 11:35 AM
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I don't understand why people are so bothered by and scared of human cloning.
Stem cell research is just a branch of cloning, and it has the potential to treat diseases and save lives, you can't say that's not a good thing.
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fma_drive_by_pos...
post Nov 4 2008, 04:55 AM
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Thought of FMA when I read this article...

"Cloning from the grave: Scientists create new life from a mouse that has been frozen for 16 YEARS

By David Derbyshire
Last updated at 7:49 AM on 04th November 2008

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Scientists have created clones of a mouse that had been dead and frozen for 16 years.

It is the first time they have been able to clone a frozen animal.

The Japanese researchers say their work will benefit mankind - and could be used to bring back extinct animals such as the woolly mammoth or sabre tooth tiger.
Scientists have cloned a healthy brown mouse for the first time from an animal kept in the deep freeze for 16 years

Breakthrough: Scientists have cloned a healthy brown mouse for the first time from an animal kept in the deep freeze for 16 years

But ethical watchdogs branded the experiment disturbing.

Critics say it brings the world closer to the day when people try to clone long- dead relatives stored in cryopreservation clinics.

It could even lead to a macabre new industry - in which people leave behind 'relics' of their bodies in freezers in the hope that they could one day be cloned.

The gullible might be persuaded that they themselves could be brought back to life, complete with their memories, even though a clone would be a different person in almost everything except appearance.

The latest experiment comes more than 11 years after British scientists stunned the world with Dolly the cloned sheep. Although scientists have since cloned a host of different animals, using genetic material from single cells, they have always used living cells.

It had been thought that ice crystals destroyed the DNA in frozen cells, making them unusable. But the Japanese team used brain cells and believe the high fat content of brains and the protection of the skull reduced the damage.

Josephine Quintavalle, an expert on the ethics of fertility and reproduction, said the experiment pushed the boundaries of acceptable science even further.

She said: 'This kind of research raises disturbing questions about what happens to our bodies - and any tissue we leave for medical science - after we die.

'It means that tissue donated for medical research or stored in laboratories could be used many years later for cloning research.
Frozen mouse cloned

Return of the dead: The dead mouse from which the new mouse was cloned.

'It has never been more important that when people leave tissue for research, the consent should be very specific given the potential for all kinds of scientific developments in the future.'

But British scientists welcomed the breakthrough.

Professor Malcolm Alison, biologist at Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry, said: "It is absolutely fascinating.

'The researchers obtained cell nuclei from mice that had been deep-frozen for 16 years and then generated new mice by the same technology that created Dolly.

'While 16 years is not a long time for cells to be frozen - IVF clinics often have viable sperm frozen for longer periods - there are no scientific reasons why extinct animals like mammoths could not be similarly generated.'

The research was carried out by Dr Teruhiko Wakayama and colleagues at the Centre for Developmental Biology in Kobe, Japan.
Enlarge Nightmare Graphic.jpg

They took brain cells from ordinary dead male mice stored in a freezer for up to 16 years and removed their nuclei - the blobs in the centre of cells that contain DNA.

Each cell's nucleus was injected into a hollowed-out egg cell from a female mouse.

When the egg was 'triggered' with electricity, it began to divide and grow just like a newly-conceived embryo.

After a few days, the embryo clone was implanted into the womb of a surrogate mouse and three weeks later, the clone was born.

'These cloned mice did not show any abnormalities and grew to adulthood,' the researchers report today in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences today

Cells to be frozen are normally treated with chemicals called cryoprotectants-beforehand, to prevent-damage. But this had not been done on the Japanese mice.

The researchers tried to clone mice from other parts of the body, but found that brain cells were the most successful.

Even using brain cells, however, the success rate was low.

More than 1,100 attempts produced just seven healthy clones. More than 500 embryos died after being implanted into the wombs of the surrogate mothers.

Helen Wallace of Genewatch UK said: 'Cloning produces high failure rates because many eggs and foetuses do not develop normally.

'It would be extremely dangerous for both mothers and their babies to attempt this kind of experiment in humans.'
Sabre toothed tiger and mammoths

Critics warn that the advance could lead to the cloning of historical species such as mammoths and sabre toothed tigers

Dr Robin Lovell-Badge of the Medical Research Council's National Institute for Medical Research in London said the breakthrough could help scientists researching diseases by producing more material to work on.

He said: 'It could be a valuable practical tool - not just for work on animals but on humans as well.
Scientists could potentially create living clones of the ice man 'Oetzi', who was frozen 5,300 years ago

Extreme: Scientists could potentially create living clones of the ice man 'Oetzi', who was frozen 5,300 years ago

'There might be human material stored by laboratories that you could work on.

'If it came from people with genetic diseases, it could help explore the causes of those disease.'

However Dr Robin Lovell-Badge said he suspected the technique would have most use in the research on extinct animals, such as mammoths, whose bodies are preserved for thousands of year in ice or frozen tundra.
The revelation conjures images of a world where people could be cloned and brought back from the dead. In the 2003 film Multiplicity, Michael Keaton plays several cloned variations of himself

Frankenstein science: The revelation conjures images of a world where people could be cloned and brought back from the dead. In the 2003 film Multiplicity, Michael Keaton plays several cloned variations of himself

The Japanese scientists said the bodies of large animals like mammoths frozen under natural conditions would freeze more slowly, possibly reducing cell damage.

They also suggested that other sources of frozen nuclei, such as white blood cells, might be as useful for cloning as brain tissue.

They added: 'This would increase the chances of finding tissues in good condition'."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/art...n-16-YEARS.html
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Forgiven
post Apr 10 2009, 09:56 PM
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I honestly really don't know what to think of clones really. It would be scary and somewhat awesome to know that science has gotten THAT FAR. But really, lets just leave cloning to the natural side of life shall we? Twins. X)
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black~hayate
post Apr 16 2009, 04:43 AM
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Humans shouldn't play with life. When it's over, it's over.
It should be forbidden, that's what I think.
The memories of a person won't be the same, just the body.
Well, there is alot to say...
But I hate to write long posts wink.gif.

I mean, we are discussing it in a Fullmetal Alchemist forum, a manga where two boys tried to mess with things humans shouldn't mess with.


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Aether
post Apr 18 2009, 06:32 AM
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QUOTE
Ok Hi everyone Im am really new to this site, but It is one of my favorite FMA sites and I Really enjoy coming to it:D anyways my question is Since Science can already produce Cloned animals, but when (if they havent already) they make human clones, what will become of them, because they wont actually have a soul will they??? Will they be like a Homunculus( sorry if improper spelling) And what about emotions and memories, will Clones be able to have those, or will they just be dolls!??? Will they only be able to produce a walking shell? I mean is it possible for clones to have fear, love, hate, etc.. the common emotions that we possess? I would love to hear from u guys on this one( oh yeah, if this topic has already been talked about sorry lol, im new:D)

First of all, my opinion on human cloning. I think it's a large step for medical science advancements to occur, which, in turn, will raise the state of living for everyone.
But that is only as far as medical science. It's perfectly acceptable to clone a human spleen or kidney for a transplant, however, creating a completely new being is far from it. It has already been shown through Dolly the Sheep that cloned beings age faster than the average aging rate. Doing this, the clones will not be able to live as long as normal people and therefore will die before their normal friends do. There will also be a very large and unavoidable hate towards the clone community as a whole. With animosity comes the slowing of social advancements and with a halt in these advances, comes the undoing of modern society. This is, however, talking in a purely sociological point of view.

Next, I am Atheist, and therefore do not really believe in souls. However, if you're asking if they'll be like normal people, then my answer is yes. The process of cloning is just the duplication of cells, much like a human does every moment with, say, blood. Every second there is a few hundred blood cells dying off with new ones to replace them. While this isn't exact replication, you are still manufacturing cells.

Just because this is a FullMetal Alchemist site, it doesn't mean a term has to be in every post you make.

They will be just like normal human beings. Like you and me. They will have memory, emotion, everything. The only difference is that these clones will be made, not born.

That is all I'm putting forward for now, I'm tired.


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Hagaren_4ever
post Jun 25 2009, 08:08 AM
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I'm curious as to how it would work, but not so curious that I would actually want a clone made of me. I'm pretty sure it would cause a use uproar in the people, since it's an extremely controversial subject. But then again, heart transplants used to be thought of as the work of the devil too, and look at it now.

But I just don't understand why people WANT to clone human beings and I ESPECIALLY don't understand why they would want to clone animals. What's the point? Could someone explain this to me? confused.gif


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Forsaken Love
post Jun 25 2009, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE (Hagaren_4ever @ Jun 25 2009, 04:08 PM) *
I'm curious as to how it would work, but not so curious that I would actually want a clone made of me. I'm pretty sure it would cause a use uproar in the people, since it's an extremely controversial subject. But then again, heart transplants used to be thought of as the work of the devil too, and look at it now.

But I just don't understand why people WANT to clone human beings and I ESPECIALLY don't understand why they would want to clone animals. What's the point? Could someone explain this to me? confused.gif


For cloning animals, there can be lots of reasons, for endangered animals, cells can be kept with the potential of cloning or are cloned to boost the numbers, if an animal is an award winner, or makes particually good produce, the animal is often cloned so the exceptional produce can still be produced, or in the case of an horse it was neutered before it became a show winning animal worth millions, so they cloned it in order to produce offspring, some people are weird and clone their dead pets, not caring that they won't have the same memories or even the same fur colour (fur colour is not exaclt the same as the gene does not carry just one colour or something like that)

As for wanting to clone a human being, well its all curiosity isn't it really? some scientists just want to mess about, things that are moral and immoral change over time as a result, but cloning human beings i think should be stayed way away from. (look at what happened to ed and al XD) issues like playing god aside, it simply wouldn't be fair on the subject, to know they came into the world as a test specimin different from anyone else. Animals can not think to this capacity but a human can. Memories, the soul, i guess a lot of your personality is pre-programed as it were, but what mostly makes a person are their experiances, so the people would not be the same. Think of it like identical twins. Genetically they're the same, but they are different people and if they were brought up in completly different enviroments would be completley different people. Really it would be like that 'cept the two people would be born at different times, the baby isn't created in a test tube or anything but grows like any other child in a surrogate mother.


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