HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Hawkeye X Roy: The Royai Thread, For Roy, Riza, and Royai fans, and more!!
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_Jelly
post Jun 21 2010, 12:39 AM
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I'm gonna take a guess, is he one of the directors that said he viewed Roy and Riza's relationship as platonic? I remember someone saying something about that so I assume that's the person. Seeing he's a/the director of Brotherhood, I can see why people would be worried. If this is what people are talking about, I mean.


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dec4rhapsody
post Jun 21 2010, 12:52 AM
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QUOTE (_Jelly @ Jun 21 2010, 03:39 PM) *
I'm gonna take a guess, is he one of the directors that said he viewed Roy and Riza's relationship as platonic? I remember someone saying something about that so I assume that's the person. Seeing he's a/the director of Brotherhood, I can see why people would be worried. If this is what people are talking about, I mean.


Ah, my bad.
I was referring to Yasuhiro Irie, the director of Brotherhood.
He is also being accused of being behind the massive deletion and alteration of Royai-ish scenes for he seems to favourite EdWin over everything XD.
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black~hayate
post Jun 21 2010, 01:31 AM
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Oh. Now I know who I'm gonna hunt next time I feel Royai was neglected.


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Kaori Ayanami
post Jun 21 2010, 01:51 AM
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What was the word? I doubt it was an equivalent to the word "platonic" because... well, Plato did write in The Symposium that the noblest love arises from the sight of a beautiful person (so, the literal definition of "platonic love" is quite possible in Royai, judging from the Ishval flashback XD). If that's what that person meant, it doesn't deny romantic overtones, it's just that in such a kind of love improving the loved one becomes the main thing.
Wait a minute. I never EVER thought of Royai that way... But it seems to fit. o_0

Errr, philosophical issues aside ^^U, I have the theory that those strangely un-Royaish episodes are to be blamed on their specific episode directors (you know, the ones that do direct an episode allegedly under the command of Irie).
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dec4rhapsody
post Jun 21 2010, 02:26 AM
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QUOTE (Kaori Ayanami @ Jun 21 2010, 04:51 PM) *
What was the word? I doubt it was an equivalent to the word "platonic" because... well, Plato did write in The Symposium that the noblest love arises from the sight of a beautiful person (so, the literal definition of "platonic love" is quite possible in Royai, judging from the Ishval flashback XD). If that's what that person meant, it doesn't deny romantic overtones, it's just that in such a kind of love improving the loved one becomes the main thing.
Wait a minute. I never EVER thought of Royai that way... But it seems to fit. o_0

Errr, philosophical issues aside ^^U, I have the theory that those strangely un-Royaish episodes are to be blamed on their specific episode directors (you know, the ones that do direct an episode allegedly under the command of Irie).


Nope, platonic isn't the word he used...
I feel ashamed for not being able to translate the most important phrase in that interview.
He said that the jolt of emotion Hawkeye displayed in Episode 19 were more about feelings towards someone who ??? (自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在への思い) than romantic love.
So what is 自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在? It literally translates into someone who "hits/strikes/destroys????" everything of you.
I first thought that this may refer to her "YOU B****TCH" towards Lust, but if that is the case the word feelings/omoi seems awkward to me. + The whole interview was about "bonds" between the characters, and Lust just doesn't go there.
Any help?

I think his definition was quite evasive XD.



Here we have the whole passage.

お互いに手を抜かない信頼関係

物語に登場したときから、ロイとホークアイは揺るがぬキズナを築いていた。
「ホークアイは、厳しいこともいうけれど、ロィの行動のすべてを受け止めている。ロイは、ホークアイに苦労をかけるのを承知で足うを止めない。19話でホークアイが見せた感情の揺れも、恋愛というよりは、自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在への思いなのかなと考えています」(入江監督)



There were also other interesting parts.

The whole intereview (mainly featuring Ed&Ling, Roy&Hawkeye) came out around the Ishval episode.

And the Ed&Winry - Roy&Hawkeye comparisons just cracked me up.

-Ed&Winry are moving faster than Roy&Hawkeye
-Roy&Hawkeye are both "unskillful" about their feelings towards each other. Compared to Ed & Winry, their "late crop"-ness probably increases in proportion to age...

Kami-sama...
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FailToImpress
post Jun 21 2010, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE (MustangSally @ Jun 21 2010, 05:04 AM) *
I like Travis' voice too. I can't remember where I read it but someone complained about his voice being too deep because Mustang was only supposed to be like 30 and that cracked me up. A couple of my favorite tv actors, when they were under 30, had voices deeper than his. Both Texans(like him) so maybe guys from Texas just have deep voices. smile.gif But in any case, it doesn't sound to me to be any deeper than how his Japanese Voice Actor plays him. I figure it's to convey that he's a leader and "grown up" - deep voices are usually considered a way to convey leadership.


See, I always thought the first anime Roy (Japanese voice) was waaaaay too deep and just sounded silly.
Plus, who else can you see playing Roy in English? I just can't think who else would be able to do that voice.

Also... I greatly prefer Riza's English voice... not only does she rock the backhanded comments and general snarkiness, the Japanese VA makes her sound far too young. She hasn't been so bad lately but I still don't think it really fits.
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dec4rhapsody
post Jun 21 2010, 06:57 AM
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Now I think it's amusing, it seems to be quite a tradition that the seiyuu of popular canon-but-not-quite-yet het pairings tend to deny that there is anything going on between them, which also happened with LelouchXCC from Code Geass and SetsunaXMarina from Gundam 00.

I found a scan of the Miki and Orikasa interview (which came out after the Lust episode), in which Orikasa was asked to describe the bond between Roy and Hawkeye that obviously goes beyond a normal professional relationship, and she answered:

I think it's neither romantic love or friendship. It's hard to categorize their relationship. Perhaps the closest word would be "trust".

And Miki followed:

She (Hawkeye) follows Roy even if she knows his "useless" side. (<= The "useless" herein is not "munou" but "dame".)
They undoubtly went through hell together, where they also carefully built their mutual trust.
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Turdaewen
post Jun 21 2010, 07:07 AM
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I still prefere Shinichiro Miki and Fumiko Orikasa... they just sound closer to what I've pictured for Roy and Riza.

And about Yasuhiro not liking Royai, well, I think there's enough "Royai" moments in FMA:B, so it doesn't make much of a difference for me if Royai is his favorite couple or not. And, well, that's his opinion, not mine. XD I don't agree with it, but he's entitled to have it. XD
At the same time, he may not like Royai as he does EdWin, but still considers it cannon, or he wouldn't talk like he does. lol And that's enough for me.
So, I'm guessing people have been taking this things a little too seriously. Even the "not liking Royai" thing as if it's a personal offense. So, that's that I meant by "worring too much about details". I mentioned Trekkies because they're really emblematic when it comes to taking something that was supposed to be "a hobbie" WAY too seriously, but that applies to practically anything.

I don't know.. maybe I'm just past that phase where something like that would have bothered me... XD After all, I'm not that young anymore. XD Things tend to be not as "heavy" as they used to be. lol

Like I've said many, many months ago, I don't really care much if a shipper I enjoy is cannon or not, cause it makes no difference. I know that Royai is cannon and I think that's great and I defend their 'cannoness" because they ARE cannon. But, if they weren't, it wouldn't make them any less interesting!
Being cannon or not doesn't make a shipper more 'important' than any other. Or even more valid. It's just a fact. And most the shippers I like have never been cannon.

I guess it's more to the field of "frustrated expectations", this changes, because we want to see something that may not come to be in a story. But I guess that's the fun about reading/watching someone else's work: get to see HIS/HERS point of view, not ours. If we want our point of view, we don't NEED the manga or the anime: we can do it ourselves! That's the beauty of it.
The interesting thing about watching a piece made by someone else is precisely looking at it 'differently'. Or else, it's just an exercise of "reinforcing your own point of view".


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A Pierrot's Aria
post Jun 21 2010, 07:48 AM
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I agree with you, FailToImpress. I think that they couldn't have picked a better English voice for Roy, and I like Riza's English voice better for the same reason as you; her Japanese voice sounds too young.

For some reason this whole discussion reminds me of a funny instance in which I saw that someone refused to watch Brotherhood because Roy wasn't voiced by Okhawa any more. I don't mean to come across nasty, but that's the most ridiculous reason for someone not wanting to watch something ever. xD;

As for the director liking/disliking RoyAi or not, I'm confused as to why people are making huge conspiracy theories about it...I mean, it would be rather unprofessional to alter the way two characters interact just because you don't like it. I believe they just chose to do it a little differently. Besides, a hand to the chest or no hand to the chest isn't the be all and end all to any relationship, and similarly as I touched upon before, a hand to the chest doesn't mean that two people are madly in love with each other or anything.

I completely understand that it would have been a nice thing to see, and people will be thinking that changing it was unnecessary, but the fact is it didn't happen but that doesn't mean that the directors hate Royai. Besides, I think it's the more subtle or ambiguous nature of their gestures that make Royai the amazingness it is; it portrays their deep trust in each other- with relationships like these I believe that explicit gestures and words are used and/or needed to a much lesser extent. So as nice as it was, a nice blatant hand on the chest is neither here nor there. wink.gif Their teamwork, as always, is brilliant.


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Nagareboshi
post Jun 21 2010, 08:17 AM
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QUOTE (dec4rhapsody @ Jun 21 2010, 05:26 AM) *
Nope, platonic isn't the word he used...
I feel ashamed for not being able to translate the most important phrase in that interview.
He said that the jolt of emotion Hawkeye displayed in Episode 19 were more about feelings towards someone who ??? (自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在への思い) than romantic love.
So what is 自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在? It literally translates into someone who "hits/strikes/destroys????" everything of you.
I first thought that this may refer to her "YOU B****TCH" towards Lust, but if that is the case the word feelings/omoi seems awkward to me. + The whole interview was about "bonds" between the characters, and Lust just doesn't go there.
Any help?

I think his definition was quite evasive XD.



Here we have the whole passage.

お互いに手を抜かない信頼関係

物語に登場したときから、ロイとホークアイは揺るがぬキズナを築いていた。
「ホークアイは、厳しいこともいうけれど、ロィの行動のすべてを受け止めている。ロイは、ホークアイに苦労をかけるのを承知で足うを止めない。19話でホークアイが見せた感情の揺れも、恋愛というよりは、自分のすべてをぶつけられる存在への思いなのかなと考えています」(入江監督)



Here's my translation:

They're both in a relationship of mutual trust that isn’t tawdry. (Edit: slightly modified the translation).

From the time they appeared in the story, Roy and Hawkeye were building an unshakable bond. "Even though Hawkeye says stern things, she accepts all of Roy’s actions/behavior. With her consent, Roy doesn’t stop burdening her with hardships. I think that the jolt of emotion Hawkeye showed in episode 19 is a fondness for someone who affects her entire existence rather than romantic love.”


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SneakyRuler
post Jun 21 2010, 08:40 AM
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Thank you, Nagareboshi! So problem solved. We don't know whether or not Yasuhiro Irie thinks of royai as a romantic couple but now we're pretty sure he understands the dynamic of their relationship. I couldn't say it better myself. His definition pretty much says 'love' tongue.gif
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dec4rhapsody
post Jun 21 2010, 08:51 AM
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Nagareboshi!
Thank you 1000 times!
Now I can rest in peace, lol.

QUOTE (SneakyRuler @ Jun 21 2010, 11:40 PM) *
I couldn't say it better myself. His definition pretty much says 'love' tongue.gif


Kami-sama, just say it already~


EDIT: BTW, Nagareboshi,would it be proper to translate "お互いに手を抜かない" into "can't let go of each other"?
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FailToImpress
post Jun 21 2010, 09:11 AM
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QUOTE (Nagareboshi @ Jun 21 2010, 04:17 PM) *
I think that the jolt of emotion Hawkeye showed in episode 19 is a fondness for someone who affects her entire existence rather than romantic love.”


On the whole, this is how I feel about their relationship realistically. It's more of a deep attachment to each other, and really, platonic love is the best way to describe it.

There's a big difference between 'love love' and platonic love. Yes, he's saying that they love each other, but not in the way that most people seem to want them to be.
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Nagareboshi
post Jun 21 2010, 09:22 AM
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dec4rhapsody and SneakyRuler: you're very welcome!



QUOTE (dec4rhapsody @ Jun 21 2010, 11:51 AM) *
EDIT: BTW, Nagareboshi,would it be proper to translate "お互いに手を抜かない" into "can't let go of each other"?


Nope.

お互いに means mutually; with each other; reciprocally; together; both. 手を抜かない means "not shoddy," or "not cheap (in quality)."

So, it roughly translates to something like "together they're not shoddy."

お互いに手を抜かない modifies the noun 信頼関係 which means "a relationship of mutual trust." So, when you put them together you get : They're both in a relationship of mutual trust that's not tawdry/shoddy/cheap.


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dec4rhapsody
post Jun 21 2010, 09:47 AM
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QUOTE (Nagareboshi @ Jun 22 2010, 12:22 AM) *
QUOTE (dec4rhapsody @ Jun 21 2010, 11:51 AM) *
EDIT: BTW, Nagareboshi,would it be proper to translate "お互いに手を抜かない" into "can't let go of each other"?


Nope.



Thank you again for clearing this up!!!
Yepp, silly me.
I should have remembered what 手を抜く means since I come across this word so much in action games XD.

QUOTE (FailToImpress @ Jun 22 2010, 12:11 AM) *
On the whole, this is how I feel about their relationship realistically. It's more of a deep attachment to each other, and really, platonic love is the best way to describe it.

There's a big difference between 'love love' and platonic love. Yes, he's saying that they love each other, but not in the way that most people seem to want them to be.


I've got a mixed feeling towards this.
It is that I cannot disagree, but one half of myself is just too rotten to accept this after years of indulging in fanfics, fanarts, doujinshi and fantasies.
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