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2012: What Do You Think
DarkBrain
post Dec 10 2007, 01:15 PM
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2012


Lately there has been alot of talk of the world ending in 2012. Some people have also talked about this as the New Age. The Mayans even have 12-21-12 as the last day of their calander and as the day when the world ends at the hands of metorites and such.

Nostradamus, there was a special on him on the History Channel a few weeks ago, spekas of the Anti-Christ and how God will bring about the New Age using fire instead of water. He also speaks of the time when the center of the universe is crossed by eight celestial lines, and this phenomenon only happens every 13000 years, thriteen being the unluckly numerical value. Nostradamus also expects the world to be encased in a chaotic end at the hands of the Anti-Christ in 2012.

What do you think?


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Popogeejo
post Dec 10 2007, 01:37 PM
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QUOTE(DarkBrain @ Dec 10 2007, 08:15 PM) *
Lately there has been alot of talk of the world ending in 2012.

I've not heard anything about this but hell we get this every so often. Last year the world was supposed to end on June 6th and it failed to do so. I can't see 2012 being that special apart form the London Olympics.

QUOTE
Some people have also talked about this as the New Age.

Again, not heard anything about this. Pst some links please.

QUOTE
The Mayans even have 12-21-12 as the last day of their calander and as the day when the world ends at the hands of metorites and such.

If I remember right the Mayan calender doesn't follow the current system of measuring years. Even then 12-21-12 doesn't appear to bear any correlation to 2012.

QUOTE
Nostradamus,

Oh lawd.

QUOTE
Nostradamus, there was a special on him on the History Channel a few weeks ago, spekas of the Anti-Christ and how God will bring about the New Age using fire instead of water. He also speaks of the time when the center of the universe is crossed by eight celestial lines, and this phenomenon only happens every 13000 years, thriteen being the unluckly numerical value. Nostradamus also expects the world to be encased in a chaotic end at the hands of the Anti-Christ in 2012.

He predicted several Ends of the World and none have paid off. It's been well established he just made stuff up. 13 has no actual significance on such things either. Just because we say 13 is unlucky doesn't mean any thing.
As for the celestial lines, how did we come up with those? Where are they drawn from and what s to stop me claiming thirteen cross over my house?

QUOTE
What do you think?

The World will end when it ends and not a second sooner.
I have yet to see any evidence of Global calamity beyond Global warming and I don't see that wiping us out by 2012. Throw me something other than Nostradamus and Mayans.


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Toby-Chan
post Dec 10 2007, 02:58 PM
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I have seen some fascinating cases presented for the Mayan calendar, for which I was fairly skeptical for the same reason as Popo, that we can't know how accurately the Mayan calendar matches up to our own.

I remember there being a fairly convincing argument with evidence for that particular date, but I don't particularly buy doomsday prophesies of any sort. Many people abuse such notions, treating them as a means for squeezing out personal gain from a desperate populace, even for smaller predicted crashes, less drastic than the whole world ending. Remember Y2k? We almost forgot about that fiasco, didn't we? In the end, some grocery store computers messed up, and a bunch of people had more Spam in their cellars than they knew what to do with. I also feel that too many people use the prospect of the world ending as an excuse to be reckless, or taking the so-called rapture as an exit strategy. Lots of people claim that they don't need to be concerned about polluting the environment, because Christ is going to come soon and the world will be reborn. Or, that can be the reason the consider the Iraq war to be a justified war, because they see evidence for it in the bible, as being a necessary step to the armageddon.

My brother in law who is Mormon, believes that the Mayan prediction is probably true, most likely influenced by his religion's belief that the Mayans and Aztecs were the civilizations described in the Book of Mormon. (Another can of worms. Look it up if you want a better understanding of their mythos) He says that the world is going to become entirely evil, and then the second coming will happen. I think a lot of people feel this way for a multitude of reasons. I think it's easy for some to see the immorality and darkness of the world and say that it's a part of a predicted cycle that will be eradicated once the rapture comes, rather than to wallow in despair and believe that it's impossible to put an end to AIDS, war, genocide, rape. I think it makes it easier for them to condemn what they see as immoral when they believe that they just need to hold out and be 'righteous' for a few more years.

As for the 'world ending' in 2012, I'd like to point out that the prediction for the end of the world in the Mayan sense doesn't necessarily mean the end of the world so much as the end of an era. And all mystical prophecies and pseudoscience involving astronomy aside, I do believe that the world is changing so rapidly that we are going to see some major overthrows of society and the world's general order quite soon.

All in all, the end of the world has been 'coming soon' for thousands of years. We seem to forget about all the failed apocalypses that have happened within a few months of nothing happening. It's a wise idea to give serious thought to the fact that drastic change can and will happen, probably sooner than later, but that sort of caution should come with reasonable planning and assumption of a very real future ensuing.


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Colette
post Dec 10 2007, 03:14 PM
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I think I'll be a sophomore in college, hopefully, and making my way steadily into the business field.


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Fushi
post Dec 10 2007, 03:42 PM
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I think people read too much into Nostradamus' work.


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DarkBrain
post Dec 10 2007, 04:07 PM
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I appreciate everyone's commets, this is making for an interesting discussion

Well, I've managed to dig up a few sites, most focus on the Mayan beliefs;

Mayan-Armageddon 1
^This one focuses more on the theories behind it and explains it a bit more throughly

Mayan Armageddon 2
^ A pretty good one

The "Official" 12-21-12 Webpage
^This site is an alright one, alot of loopholes in alot of their facts


And if you do a simple a Google search of 2012 you'll get a large flow of sites concerning this fateful date. Now im not asking any of you to believe this or start stockpiling for this New Era, but I just thought this was one of the more interesting things I've heard, and for me alot more believable then any other stories I've heard.

And I honestly believe Nostradamus was onto something,,

And if anyone else finds any other information please feel free to share it,
also if someone finds information that argues this point please feel welcome to post.


--------------------
Dreams surely are difficult, confusing, and not everything in them is brought to pass for mankind. For fleeting dreams have two gates: one is fashioned of horn and one of ivory. Those which pass through the one of sawn ivory are deceptive, bringing tidings which come to nought, but those which issue from the one of polished horn bring true results when a mortal sees them.
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Razzy
post Dec 10 2007, 04:40 PM
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As for me, I don't really believe Nostradamus and his prophecies.
People recently found a book of his prophetic illustrations, and I think people look too far into the drawings and only see what they're looking for. For example, they showed a drawing by him (on a TV program) of a burning castle. I looked at it and saw a burning castle. Others looked at it and thought that it had predicted the attacks on 9/11. To me, it looked nothing like what those other people saw. It just looked like a burning castle to me. Even if it was a true prophecy, that didn't necessarily mean that it was particularly predicting 9/11, but I can understand that people would think it was, because it was a devastating event, and it was recent.

DarkBrain- I don't take those TV programs seriously anymore. When I was maybe seven years old I believed them. Now, I've seen so many of them that I don't really find them interesting or particularly accurate. I don't know. Whatever happens to the world, happens.


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asunder
post Dec 10 2007, 04:51 PM
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someone wears a tin-foil hat

Your second link cites a Dr. Jose Arguelles
http://www.philzone.com/interviews/jose/jose.html

read the interview for yourself and decide if this guy needs therapy.
QUOTE
So you're suggesting that perhaps a change of the current calendar may help humanity is some way?

Yes, I think the point is, it will improve humanity. It will be of the greatest benefit to humanity to start getting its mind from a deformed state to a harmonic state and that's the whole point. So, we're promoting that, and what we're looking at is the Great Calendar Change of 2004, which is not too far away. We're looking at July 25 and 26, 2004 as the big moment to pass through this moment in time.


so we can correct this by switching calenders?
and did anything happen on july 25,26th?




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Fushi
post Dec 10 2007, 05:14 PM
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QUOTE(DarkBrain @ Dec 10 2007, 04:07 PM) *
And if you do a simple a Google search of 2012 you'll get a large flow of sites concerning this fateful date. Now im not asking any of you to believe this or start stockpiling for this New Era, but I just thought this was one of the more interesting things I've heard, and for me alot more believable then any other stories I've heard.

And I honestly believe Nostradamus was onto something,,

I knew about the date 2012 a few years ago when my little brother was going through a bad paranoia stage. He kept on talking about this date and couldn't sleep at night. This wasn't as bad as my own paranoia stage thankfully.


What my problem with Nostradamus is that a lot of people intentionally go looking through it to try and find something bad or specific to what's going on nowadays. They like to link it to smaller things. One boy I knew linked it to a murder where a guy's fingers were cut off or something to that effect. I honestly highly doubt Nostradamus was able to predict something so small, and that could happen at any time period. To me, Nostradamus prophecies are right up there with people who think that if you play a KISS song backwards you'll hear the devil. when really, what you have to do is play Chicago backwards.

Also, I once knew a girl who thought Napoleon was the first of the anti-christs described by Nostradamus (I have no idea if this is a widely accepted belief or not since she's the only one I heard this from) Anyone who honestly thinks that needs to dig up a book about Napoleon and do some damn research on him. If Napoleon was an anti-christ, then I'm the arch angel Michael. Rulers like Stalin and Pinochet are more "anti christs" than Napoleon ever was.


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asunder
post Dec 10 2007, 05:16 PM
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moar debunking http://www.jaguar-sun.com/mayanfactor.html


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DarkBrain
post Dec 10 2007, 05:28 PM
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Asunder- I think you've mis-understood the entire second article I've posted. The only thing that it had to do with Jose was two quotes and the one you posted was to be found no where in the article I posted. If you had thoroughly read the article, you would've found these two quotes

QUOTE
As Dr. Jose Arguelles writes in "Time and The Technosphere" -
"August 13, 3113 BC is as precise and accurate as one can get for a beginning of history: the first Egyptian dynasty is dated to ca 3100 BC; the first 'city,' Uruk, in Mesopotamia, also ca 3100 BC; the Hindu Kali Yuga, 3102 BC; and most interestingly, the division of time into 24 hours of 60 minutes each and each minute into 60 seconds [and the division of the circle into 360 degrees], also around 3100 BC, in Sumeria. If the beginning of history was so accurately placed, then must not the end of history, December 21, 2012 also be as accurate?"


QUOTE
As Dr. Jose Arguelles writes, "In 830 A.D. the engineering team departed back to space, back to the other dimensions from which the Maya keep their watch on things. Slowly the terrestrial Maya melted back into the jungles. The time of darkness was setting in. Sure enough the conquerors came. By 830 A.D. Warrior tribes who took the ancient name of Toltec, which means Master Builder, entered the Yucatan. War and human sacrifice were introduced."


Also I'm not using Jose as one of my main sources, so if you want to find someone to prove wrong, try finding evidence against The Mayan people!

Fushigi Rockna- You're information about Napolean being considered one of the first Anti-Christs is correct, Nostradamus described three Anti-Christs

These are two accepted ones;;
  1. Napolean
  2. Hitler

The conception of an Anti-Christ, correct me if I'm wrong, but is someone who acts as a Prince Of Peace wo some, but is really a Prince Of War. and if you think about it. Napolean could be considered exactly that. He fought for the "betterment" of france, but killed many people and ordered the killings of many.

Hitler, I really think many people would agree he could very well considered that.

As for the third, there is a belief that Osama Bin Laden could be the Third, but I highly doubt that.






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Dreams surely are difficult, confusing, and not everything in them is brought to pass for mankind. For fleeting dreams have two gates: one is fashioned of horn and one of ivory. Those which pass through the one of sawn ivory are deceptive, bringing tidings which come to nought, but those which issue from the one of polished horn bring true results when a mortal sees them.
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asunder
post Dec 10 2007, 05:34 PM
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that entire site you linked is based around the interpretation of Dr. Jose Arguelles http://www.13moon.com/ go to the front page and you can read about his biography...


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Popogeejo
post Dec 10 2007, 05:42 PM
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QUOTE(DarkBrain @ Dec 11 2007, 12:28 AM) *
Fushigi Rockna- You're information about Napolean being considered one of the first Anti-Christs is correct, Nostradamus described three Anti-Christs

These are two accepted ones;;
  1. Napolean
  2. Hitler

Spoiler: Nostradamus predicted the rise of Histor, a river. No where in his texts is Hitler mentioned, it's just people changing the interpretation to meet with what they want.


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phoenix dying
post Dec 10 2007, 05:52 PM
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...or die of alcohol poisoning.

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DarkBrain
post Dec 10 2007, 08:40 PM
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Well, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see

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