HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Chapter 87 "Regular" Discussion Thread For First Time Readers (and Others), No future chapter spoilers here, please. :)
Colette
post Sep 15 2008, 07:57 PM
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I know we aren't really discussing our feelings on her, but I can't stand Olivia. She's so.....boring. Not only that, she's just incredibly irksome. She demands all this respect that she most certainly hasn't earned from me (yet the complete opposite is true for ALL the characters) and....I dunno. She just rubs me the wrong way. I don't know what her purpose is, and I don't care, I just want her to either go away or get better. The same thing is true about Pride as well. Arakawa hasn't impressed me in the slightest with her most recent characters.


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Cardboard Box Ju...
post Sep 15 2008, 08:09 PM
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Yeah, I have to say she annoys me to no end as well.
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jacksparrow589
post Sep 16 2008, 07:53 PM
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I like the "Chaotic Neutral" idea of Olivia. She certainly does follow her own agenda at whatever cost (with the one exception of her own life, of course), but she doesn't seem to be high on a prioritized hit list for either side. It seems like she's flying under the radar for now, so whatever action she takes in the future could be the missing link in the chain that makes or breaks the whole good vs. evil concept. Whatever it is, it will inadvertantly help or hinder either side, though-- she's calculating what the actions of each side will do, and will follow what benefits her interests at the time because her interests are all that matter.

In this, I do agree, she's annoying. She's hard to make guesses on because of her self-interest, but I think that she will be a deciding factor in the end. I suspect that either she'll go with the side (Roy & co.) that's less likely to use her for their own gains, or she'll go to her grave for her past associations. It's really too hard to tell at this point, though.


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CodenameElizabet...
post Sep 17 2008, 09:14 AM
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Yeah. D&D FTW. I've rolled my share of D20's back in the day... (LOL GEEK.)

As for Olivia, I'm apparently in the same boat as a lot of you. She has been annoying me as of late as well. I'm waiting fro her to DO SOMETHING, which I'm sure will happen, at the correct place in the plot. She just came on so strong, and I loved her to death, but once she got to Central... NOTHING. Except for that one lulz-tastic scene w/ Alex at the family mansion. XD

I really hope that Arakawa makes it up to us in the end and that this is all leading up to something important.



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Pushabilities
post Sep 17 2008, 10:28 AM
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QUOTE(CodenameElizabeth @ Sep 17 2008, 12:14 PM) *
Yeah. D&D FTW. I've rolled my share of D20's back in the day... (LOL GEEK.)

As for Olivia, I'm apparently in the same boat as a lot of you. She has been annoying me as of late as well. I'm waiting fro her to DO SOMETHING, which I'm sure will happen, at the correct place in the plot. She just came on so strong, and I loved her to death, but once she got to Central... NOTHING. Except for that one lulz-tastic scene w/ Alex at the family mansion. XD

I really hope that Arakawa makes it up to us in the end and that this is all leading up to something important.


It seems that Olivia really cooled down after the 'army of homunculi' incident. I think she's planning something, and her lack of action is her putting on her best poker face.
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Turdaewen
post Sep 17 2008, 11:31 AM
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Yeah... I'm kinda confused about her, actually. At first, I didn't like her and, once she started growing on me, she started acting strange...

So I still don't trust her AT ALL.


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Sannom
post Sep 17 2008, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE
I really hope that Arakawa makes it up to us in the end and that this is all leading up to something important.


I really think that there is something big planned between Mustang, Grumman and Olivia. Mustang is the one that will create the rebellion and give to Grumman the opportunity to grab power. Olivia is their inside woman, she will get rid of all the corrupt higher up that could contest Grumman. In the process, Olivia and Mustang would have sacrificed their lives, but Grumman will be able to get the country on the way Mustang wanted.
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RoyxRizaFan
post Sep 17 2008, 02:25 PM
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Sorry, I have to add something to this Olivia discussion...

...She usually doesn't get on my nerves, and I have faith that she's on Roy's side. My problem with her is how she treats Alex. Somehow, i dont find it funny. How can she put him down for leaving the war, when she wasn't a part of it? She doesn't know it was like to have to kill innocent people and watch their bodies dropping all around her, for no reason whatsoever. Sure, she heard about it, but nothing is the same as being part of it, so she has no right to judge him since she doesn't know a thing about the circumstance.

Plus I loved Alex since he first showed up in volume 2, so having some newbie come in and treat him like sh*t isn't something I can really let by easily...


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Cardboard Box Ju...
post Sep 17 2008, 04:33 PM
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I wouldn't count on Grumman in there, he's plotting against Mustang himself remember.
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jacksparrow589
post Sep 17 2008, 05:47 PM
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As I recall, that was just Miles's thoughts on Grumman's plan. We haven't seen any indication that this is true besides that, and I wouldn't put it past Arakawa to throw us a red herring on that one. I honestly don't think Grumman would be painted as the good guy all along just for this.


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Cardboard Box Ju...
post Sep 17 2008, 06:20 PM
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Uhhh, no. We having thought bubbles coming directly from Grumman's head, explaining in a great detail how he is going to screw Mustang and seize power for himself.

EXHIBIT A:



Grumman's planning to pull a fast one, no matter how you look at it.
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spectator
post Sep 17 2008, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE(Cardboard Box Junkie @ Sep 18 2008, 09:20 AM) *
Uhhh, no. We having thought bubbles coming directly from Grumman's head, explaining in a great detail how he is going to screw Mustang and seize power for himself.

Grumman's planning to pull a fast one, no matter how you look at it.


Definately, Grumman had spent most of his life in the military. It would be really atypical for a big shot like him not to crave on power. I, too, suspect that Grumman is using Roy to overthrow Bradley for his own greed but it is still early to tell.


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jacksparrow589
post Sep 17 2008, 09:45 PM
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Yes, BUT RIGHT AFTERWARD, there is a bubble from Miles saying something along the lines of, "That's what someone like him might do." I really don't think that he's just using people for his own ends. He could be part of the larger scheme of putting someone more trustworthy at the head. I think we're being thrown a fast one, here. It's not 100% clear whether it actually is Grumman's own machinations, or Miles's imagination, but if it really was all Grumman's plan, why would Arakawa throw in Miles's thought?


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Cardboard Box Ju...
post Sep 17 2008, 10:06 PM
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If the thought process was Miles' then the whole lot would have pointed from Miles' head.

Grumman quite obviously went against his instructions to march on central, so Miles managed to pick up on his intentions from that.

If anything, what Miles thought immediately after is probably slightly mistranslated. Who knows, he could have been thinking "I wonder what he's planning . . ."

Those thoughts came from Grumman. The last thought was Miles. No question, no uncertainty. We can see it with our own eyes. Fast one's have been pulled on the reader before, but you can't discount something that is right there in front of your face.

To answer your final question: So someone can warn Mustang that Grumman is going turncoat on them . . . duh.
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Sannom
post Sep 18 2008, 01:00 AM
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QUOTE
My problem with her is how she treats Alex. Somehow, i dont find it funny. How can she put him down for leaving the war, when she wasn't a part of it? She doesn't know it was like to have to kill innocent people and watch their bodies dropping all around her, for no reason whatsoever.


Yeah, I agree with you on that. But I don't think she treats him "directly" that bad... I somehow thing that their rivalry go way back, and that Olivia has always thought that her brother was "weak" laugh.gif Or perharps that she ressents being a woman...

No, it's the way she talks about him to her fellow generals and soldiers than unnerves me. Somehow, I think that if she was to talk like that in front of Miles, Miles might disagree with her, after all Alex refused to kill his people...

After that, I want to see Alex gets his sister's sympathy again by showing her that when it comes to something that is really worthy of it, he doesn't flee nor is "weak". Alex is just like Ed : he has chosen not to kill, and that's why he is so low in the hierarchy. Alex gaining his sister's trust appears to me as much as important as Scar somehow saving Winry.
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