HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
HAGANE NO RENKINJUTSUSHI
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Marta/martel Theory, Or why the name is different in the dub
Wyrd_Raven
post Dec 19 2005, 11:25 AM
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<Moving from FMA Anime American Audience sub-forum to FMA Anime Japanese Audience sub-forum where all dub/sub threads are being collected currently. 02/21/07 ~Tombow>

I've been seeing alot of talk over why Martel is named Marta in the English dubbing of FMA. I do have a theory on this based on previous series and the Japanese language when it grasps foreign words.


First off, as we all know, in Japan the english letters "L" and "R" often get mixed around so from this we get Martel being Marter depending on who says/ spells it out. Now this by itself would not lead Martel to being changed to Marta in the English Version.

To explain this change one needs to look at the live action Gneration Kikaider series. Here is where the interesting thing happens. Many of you may not know this but this live action series did air subtitled in Hawaii. However due to certain spellings of it they went an alternate name, Generation Kikaida (as seen here). This is another part of Japanese language translation issues on the part of translating to English. The ending part "-er" is crossed with "-a" and thus leading Marter becoming MARTA.

This can explain what happened. Of course with the Manga it may be different, (as is the case with Ishvar/Ishbal) but that will be another day.


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Sleeping Forest
post Dec 19 2005, 11:49 AM
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???

what about farman/falman?


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Wyrd_Raven
post Dec 19 2005, 11:59 AM
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QUOTE(Violet Alchemist @ Dec 19 2005, 01:34 PM) [snapback]331376[/snapback]

???

what about farman/falman?


Simple "L/R" confusion.


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Katrina Forest
post Dec 19 2005, 04:28 PM
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The example you gave showed the "da" character being used to represent the English sound "der" but I'm not sure about it working in reverse.

When I saw that the names had been changed, I went on the assumption that Marta was simply a more familiar-sounding name than Martel. It's been a while since I watchied the Japanese as well - is it possible that when they said her name in Japanese it sounded like "Marta?"


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Wyrd_Raven
post Dec 19 2005, 07:26 PM
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That's exactly what I am refering to. Alot of the disputes between saying Kikaider and Kikaida was based over audio more than writing.


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Katrina Forest
post Dec 20 2005, 06:02 AM
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QUOTE(Wyrd_Raven @ Dec 19 2005, 09:11 PM) [snapback]331565[/snapback]

That's exactly what I am refering to. Alot of the disputes between saying Kikaider and Kikaida was based over audio more than writing.


Ah.. okay. Gomen if I misunderstood you.


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Tombow
post Dec 20 2005, 06:29 AM
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Wow, I have never made the connection between the two, but now Wyrd_Raven had mentioned, it makes sense!!

To supplement Wyrd_Raven's theory, if I may, let me add a bit of additional information...

In Hawaii, along with standard American English, many locals speak Hawaiian Pidgin English.
It's similar to other Pidgin English/creole language, and this one was developped among many imigrant laborer imported to work in the sugar cane field in Hawaii, from China, Japan, Philippine, and also some Portuguese who were imported to work as the field supervisors, and some other duties.

Anyway, in Hawaiian Pidgin English, among other characteristics, th sound is replaced by t or d, for example, that becomes dat, and think becomes tink.
Also, r after a vowel is often omitted, for example, letter becomes letta.
And, l at the end of a word is often pronounced o, for example, mental becomes mento.

So, moving along that line, Martel could become Marto, but since this Fma character was a female character, Marto could have been changed to Marta, don't you think?? happy.gif


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Wyrd_Raven
post Dec 20 2005, 06:01 PM
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It is an interesting side not but since the location of Funimation is in Texas, we have to consider that Pidgin is not in an entire root fault here.

Still there is the vocale and written "-er" and "-a" debacle. This is still may theory as if the katakana spelling for this was made wrong by BONES (and admitedly they have done name errors for cast listing like turning "Winry" into "Winree") it could have been missed completely.


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Tombow
post Dec 22 2005, 02:07 AM
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^^ Gahaha, so much for my Hawaiian Pidgin side note!! XDDD
I can safely assume they don't normally speak Hawaiian Pidgin English in Texas!! laugh.gif

Hehe, so my little digression didn't help your theory at all, but I still think your Katakana theory makes sense. happy.gif


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Katrina Forest
post Dec 22 2005, 07:37 PM
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I'm no expert, but unlike a few other languages, ending a name in "o" as opposed to "a" has no effect on whether or not it is male or female in Japanese. For example, Minako and Makoto could both be female names.

...I think I'm going off topic...


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Tombow
post Dec 22 2005, 11:09 PM
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QUOTE(Katrina Forest @ Dec 22 2005, 08:22 PM) [snapback]332649[/snapback]

I'm no expert, but unlike a few other languages, ending a name in "o" as opposed to "a" has no effect on whether or not it is male or female in Japanese. For example, Minako and Makoto could both be female names.

True, unlike many Latin based languages, in Japanese both female and male names could end with "o" sound.
And, therein lays the potential subbing/dubbing dilenmma, because sometimes it becomes an issue when those Japanese names get subbed/dubbed into Latin based languages, or other lanuguages, in which language rules/custom usage dictate female names end with certain sound, and male names with certain other sound.

For example, besides those obvious Latin based languages such as Italian and French with female names ending with certain vowels, a Japanese girl named Minako may go to Russia, and find people there keep calling her Minatchka, because people there might often associate girl names ending with that sound.
(Hence, part of my previous post talking about Marto might have been changed into Marta to make it more sounding like a female name, during the process of Martel getting dubbed into English... )

BTW, yes, in Japanese language, Minako and Makoto could both be female names, that is, technicaly speaking. smile.gif
(Tho, if I'm correct, in customary usage, Minako is almost always a female name, and Makoto is most likely a male name and it would be very uncommon usage to find Makoto as a female name.)
But, they make good examples of both female name and male name ending in "o" sound in Japanese. happy.gif


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TheFlameAlchemis...
post Dec 22 2005, 11:21 PM
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@Tombow- You are right, We dont speak that in Texas, though in Louisiana that is common, wit da creoles an' da cajuns. i call her Martel, It should be that but it could have just been pure americanazation of the name. thats what i thought.


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Tombow
post Dec 22 2005, 11:54 PM
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QUOTE(TheFlameAlchemist @ Dec 23 2005, 12:06 AM) [snapback]332709[/snapback]

@Tombow- You are right, We dont speak that in Texas, though in Louisiana that is common, wit da creoles an' da cajuns. i call her Martel, It should be that but it could have just been pure americanazation of the name. thats what i thought.

Gaa!! TheFlameAlchemist, you are sooo right!! I completely forgot about da creoles, and da cajuns!! Da Hawaiian Pidgin isn't dat unique after all!! XDD
Luisiana folks, please don't thraw crayfish at me!! laugh.gif

And, yeah, it could have been just a simple reason like that. happy.gif


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DZBrick6
post Dec 23 2005, 09:20 PM
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So, how does one go about explaining total changes in episode titles then? I can understand language customs governing name/gender, but I find it tough to believe that 'simple translation errors' could change an episode's title...I refer to #23, 'Fullmetal Heart' becoming 'Heart of Steel'...which is it or is this like that old White Zombie EP that ended up printing wrong and they didn't have the cash to fix it? I know, I'm REALLY reaching, but sometimes curiosity knows no bounds. I await any intelligent theories on this one...


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The Great Aspara...
post Dec 23 2005, 09:30 PM
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That's a lovely theory. Rizenbul got messed up pretty bad. I have no idea how it's actually spelled now.


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